Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)
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"Thats true faith to move as the Lord speaks to us."
isaiah 59:20-21 " and the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever."
Matthew 24:35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
matthew 28:18-20 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Luke 4:17-And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. 22And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth
matthew 5-7...v1 "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,....
Matthew 28:18-20New International Version (NIV)
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
We all have a mission
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
We all have a mission
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
James is comparing works of faith with Abraham and Rahab. How many times did Abraham go to sacrifice Isaac on the altar? How many times did Rahab do her thing in order to be show her faith?
James 2:21-22 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP] You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
James 2:25 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
Those that believe we must work for our salvation can get offended at the truth that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit forever when we come to Christ.
This below in brown is what is being said in relation to receiving Christ in our hearts and being cleansed by His blood - receiving the forgiveness of sins.
True faith will have a corresponding action of some kind. Let's look at what James says about faith & it's corresponding "work" in relation to having eternal life now and forever because we heard the message of Christ and believed on Him - then we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13
It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action. Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.
Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.
James 2:21-22 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP] You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
James 2:25 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
Those that believe we must work for our salvation can get offended at the truth that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit forever when we come to Christ.
This below in brown is what is being said in relation to receiving Christ in our hearts and being cleansed by His blood - receiving the forgiveness of sins.
True faith will have a corresponding action of some kind. Let's look at what James says about faith & it's corresponding "work" in relation to having eternal life now and forever because we heard the message of Christ and believed on Him - then we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13
It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action. Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.
Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.
No, that is not true faith in the New Covenant. What you are describing is a behavior modification program and every religion in the world has that.
In saying that - the living of the homosexual lifestyle will bring death to people just like malice, slander, envy, strife and division causing people will bring death too. They are all works of the flesh in the same lists together and I'm against all of them.
True faith rests in what Christ has already done in His work on the cross and resurrection. True faith in the New Covenant which is receiving the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness will bring into manifestation the life of Christ as we walk by the Spirit which will be seen in a change in behavior.
James chapter 2 is merely telling people to look after those around you that need help. Add these works to your faith - it is NOT talking about eternal salvation and belief in Christ. Unfortunately we have been taught this mis-truth in some church teachings and traditions - like the "work for your salvation" believers.
Well said.
This is the difference between the religion of Christianity which is based on what "you do or don't do" and the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ which is belief in His work of grace and righteousness alone. This is a major stumbling block for all those that are trying to achieve what Christ has already done.
There will be a transformation by the Holy Spirit as we behold the goodness/glory of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18. That's why we preach Christ and Him crucified and that we too were crucified with Him on the cross and raised to newness of life with Him.
The church has become a behavior modification program which nullifies the very grace of God needed to have the transformation by the Spirit of God in our lives so that others can see Christ. They are trying to "dictate" the fruit of the spirit.
The true gospel of the grace of God in Christ is a stumbling block and a rock of offense to those who are the D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness belief systems. These are usually the ones that believe Christ will leave us and forsake us. These are those that believe Christ lied to us when He said the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. John 14:16
This is the difference between the religion of Christianity which is based on what "you do or don't do" and the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ which is belief in His work of grace and righteousness alone. This is a major stumbling block for all those that are trying to achieve what Christ has already done.
There will be a transformation by the Holy Spirit as we behold the goodness/glory of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18. That's why we preach Christ and Him crucified and that we too were crucified with Him on the cross and raised to newness of life with Him.
The church has become a behavior modification program which nullifies the very grace of God needed to have the transformation by the Spirit of God in our lives so that others can see Christ. They are trying to "dictate" the fruit of the spirit.
The true gospel of the grace of God in Christ is a stumbling block and a rock of offense to those who are the D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness belief systems. These are usually the ones that believe Christ will leave us and forsake us. These are those that believe Christ lied to us when He said the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. John 14:16
The problem with an anti-behaviour change gospel is you are opposing God.
Repentance in its essence is turning from sin, confessing it and walking rightly.
So it sounds so worldly to say it is unbiblical to modify your behaviour, but that is the
point.
And Jesus provides the power and the why. The power is the cross and the why is
God loves you, and His kingdom is brilliant.
But if you look closely at this new packaged gospel, it believes in changing behaviour
but God doing it behind the scenes, and without you noticing. Now in part this is true,
God does change is in ways we do not understand but at the core there is the will
and dedication to a cause, through faith. It is called carrying the cross.
Repentance in its essence is turning from sin, confessing it and walking rightly.
So it sounds so worldly to say it is unbiblical to modify your behaviour, but that is the
point.
And Jesus provides the power and the why. The power is the cross and the why is
God loves you, and His kingdom is brilliant.
But if you look closely at this new packaged gospel, it believes in changing behaviour
but God doing it behind the scenes, and without you noticing. Now in part this is true,
God does change is in ways we do not understand but at the core there is the will
and dedication to a cause, through faith. It is called carrying the cross.
The sky is blue...
No one is teaching an anti-behavior gospel. What in the world is happening in some people's minds and their humanistic belief systems?
It is abundantly clear we are transformed by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
We participate in this with Him "For it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure." Phil. 2:13
We are saved by the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which is in us in our new creation. We are now learning how to walk by the spirit - which is our spirit in union with Christ by the Holy Spirit ( whom Jesus said would be in us forever - John 14:16 ).
Romans 5:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.
I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.
Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.
This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2
We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".
The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.
This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13
As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives.
No one is teaching an anti-behavior gospel. What in the world is happening in some people's minds and their humanistic belief systems?
It is abundantly clear we are transformed by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
We participate in this with Him "For it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure." Phil. 2:13
We are saved by the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which is in us in our new creation. We are now learning how to walk by the spirit - which is our spirit in union with Christ by the Holy Spirit ( whom Jesus said would be in us forever - John 14:16 ).
Romans 5:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.
I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.
Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.
This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2
We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".
The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.
This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13
As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives.
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Above refutes the idea these preachers are not talking about changing your behaviour.
They are literally saying it is a sign of worldly religion.
But if they are not condemning behaviour change, but encouraging it, why condemn it
all the time, post after post, saying do this and do not do this is wrong.
There is clearly a dishonest preaching going on because there is an abiding hatred of
anything they could label conformist or legalism. It is just anarchy but under the delusion
they still mean morality and rules matter. What a joke.
It is like going into a nursery and saying do not listen to the teacher, do what you want,
but now listen to the teacher and obey what they tell you.
Either you are saying obey and follow the principles but empowered by something different,
or you are saying there are no principles or rules to follow. Else it is clearly a confused
message.
They are literally saying it is a sign of worldly religion.
But if they are not condemning behaviour change, but encouraging it, why condemn it
all the time, post after post, saying do this and do not do this is wrong.
There is clearly a dishonest preaching going on because there is an abiding hatred of
anything they could label conformist or legalism. It is just anarchy but under the delusion
they still mean morality and rules matter. What a joke.
It is like going into a nursery and saying do not listen to the teacher, do what you want,
but now listen to the teacher and obey what they tell you.
Either you are saying obey and follow the principles but empowered by something different,
or you are saying there are no principles or rules to follow. Else it is clearly a confused
message.
The sky is blue...
Believers in the grace and finished work of Christ on the cross and resurrection say that true transformation happens by Christ's work on the cross.
No one is condemning good behavior . My goodness the minds on some people. How do we get to be such a mess in our minds? This is what religion does - it distorts what is really being said and "twists" it to say something else. This is why I do not interact with these types.
Believers in the grace and finished work of Christ on the cross and resurrection say that true transformation happens by Christ's work on the cross.
No one is condemning good behavior . My goodness the minds on some people. How do we get to be such a mess in our minds? This is what religion does - it distorts what is really being said and "twists" it to say something else. This is why I do not interact with these types.
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Faith is described as - the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). That's what faith IS. In the whole chapter of Hebrews 11, notice in all of these occurences that it was "by" or "out of" faith, they accomplished these works. Not, faith (in essence) is all of these works. *Faith is not defined as works. *We are saved by faith at it's origin, not at some time later, based on the merits of our works. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.
Amen! I believe that WE ALL AGREE that works alone do not gain salvation. Neither are we saved by faith and works.
We are saved through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE (Ephesians 2:8,9). Not to be confused with James "faith only" (James 2:24) which is not genuine faith, but an empty profession of faith that merely claims to be genuine (James 2:14) but demonstrates by the lack of works (no works), that it's dead.
Acts 16:31 says - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, but I'm hearing you say, "that's not enough." If that's the case, then you are saying that Christ's finished work of redemption is insufficient to save us, yet Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.
The journey of "ongoing sanctification" has only just begun, but justification has already taken place (Romans 5:1) for those who "have been" (past tense, with ongoing present results) saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Justification often gets confused with ongoing sanctification. Your arguments are the same arguments that I hear from others who teach salvation by faith + works. It's the same argument that I heard while growing up in the Roman Catholic church.
In James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no works (to back up his claim). This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" He is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.
It's dead because it's an empty profession of faith and not genuine faith. Says/claims to have faith in James 2:14 is the key word. *Genuine faith is alive in Christ and produces good works (Ephesians 2:5-10).
Yes, we show our faith by our works but we do not establish it. James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
Which once again, is an empty profession of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works - James 2:14) dead faith and not genuine faith.
James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." Once again, James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".
In Matthew 12:37, "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (just like our works) reveal the state of our hearts. Words/works will give evidences for, or against a man being in a state righteousness.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
*The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith "in Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
The comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not the works; rather, life in faith is the source of the works. Many people get this backwards.
This verse is often used by Roman Catholics to say that we must be doers/obey the Law (along with faith in Jesus) in order to become saved, but this isn’t so. Paul was talking to the Jews (Romans 2:17) about their judging of the Gentiles, and then points them to their own Law (standard of judgment) and hypocrisy and tells them that the doers of the Law are just before God (v. 13).
The standard they wanted to keep was the Law. Paul was telling them they could be justified before God by doing it. So, obey the Law. ALL of it. It is the doers of the Law who are justified before God. He tells them that the Gentiles who didn't have the Law according to the knowledge of the Jews were instinctively keeping the Law (v. 14) and will be judged accordingly. How much more the Jews?
Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to obey that perfect standard. They were hypocrites. This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter, in Romans 3:28, that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the Law--which includes the MORAL aspect of the Law. No one is able to perfectly obey the Law. If you fail even once, then you become guilty of it all.
James 2:10 - "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all."
Gal. 3:10 - "For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them." The Jews (and anyone else) can be justified before God by keeping the Law, but he or she has to be sinless, with fault or defect, absolutely perfect. Good luck with that!
Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin. Repent "change your mind" -- new direction of this change of mind -- faith in Christ for salvation. Works are the fruit of faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.
Amen! I believe that WE ALL AGREE that works alone do not gain salvation. Neither are we saved by faith and works.
We are saved through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE (Ephesians 2:8,9). Not to be confused with James "faith only" (James 2:24) which is not genuine faith, but an empty profession of faith that merely claims to be genuine (James 2:14) but demonstrates by the lack of works (no works), that it's dead.
Acts 16:31 says - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, but I'm hearing you say, "that's not enough." If that's the case, then you are saying that Christ's finished work of redemption is insufficient to save us, yet Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.
The journey of "ongoing sanctification" has only just begun, but justification has already taken place (Romans 5:1) for those who "have been" (past tense, with ongoing present results) saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Justification often gets confused with ongoing sanctification. Your arguments are the same arguments that I hear from others who teach salvation by faith + works. It's the same argument that I heard while growing up in the Roman Catholic church.
In James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no works (to back up his claim). This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" He is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.
It's dead because it's an empty profession of faith and not genuine faith. Says/claims to have faith in James 2:14 is the key word. *Genuine faith is alive in Christ and produces good works (Ephesians 2:5-10).
Yes, we show our faith by our works but we do not establish it. James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
Which once again, is an empty profession of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works - James 2:14) dead faith and not genuine faith.
James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." Once again, James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".
In Matthew 12:37, "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (just like our works) reveal the state of our hearts. Words/works will give evidences for, or against a man being in a state righteousness.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
*The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith "in Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
The comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not the works; rather, life in faith is the source of the works. Many people get this backwards.
This verse is often used by Roman Catholics to say that we must be doers/obey the Law (along with faith in Jesus) in order to become saved, but this isn’t so. Paul was talking to the Jews (Romans 2:17) about their judging of the Gentiles, and then points them to their own Law (standard of judgment) and hypocrisy and tells them that the doers of the Law are just before God (v. 13).
The standard they wanted to keep was the Law. Paul was telling them they could be justified before God by doing it. So, obey the Law. ALL of it. It is the doers of the Law who are justified before God. He tells them that the Gentiles who didn't have the Law according to the knowledge of the Jews were instinctively keeping the Law (v. 14) and will be judged accordingly. How much more the Jews?
Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to obey that perfect standard. They were hypocrites. This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter, in Romans 3:28, that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the Law--which includes the MORAL aspect of the Law. No one is able to perfectly obey the Law. If you fail even once, then you become guilty of it all.
James 2:10 - "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all."
Gal. 3:10 - "For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them." The Jews (and anyone else) can be justified before God by keeping the Law, but he or she has to be sinless, with fault or defect, absolutely perfect. Good luck with that!
Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin. Repent "change your mind" -- new direction of this change of mind -- faith in Christ for salvation. Works are the fruit of faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.
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The biggest joke of all in this merry go round of morality.
To avoid admitting morality matters in the walk of Christ, a list of law has been
created
Law of the Spirit
Law of Christ.
Now to avoid the law being the law, ie commands, it is Christ himself. But a being
or person cannot be the a set of rules, they can be the example of those rules, the
power behind the rules, the doorway to the rules.
So you end up in linguistic junk. A law like do not murder/kill is quite simple.
Paul talks about this being fulfilled in "love your neighbour", that in Christ we exercise
through His love. (rom 13:10)
So either we are bound by this moral directive or not. In the law of Christ, we are bound
by it. As soon as you hate rules so deeply you condemn anyone who holds to them or
expresses them you are actually condemning the Lord, who is the author of the law, which
expresses His will.
It is why I call this unbelievably self destructive. Also the biggest joke of all is most of these
guys are right wing supporters of rules and morality. The idea of free love, and letting things
just hang out, blow your mind away on the next trip man, is the opposite of where they are.
But I think this also demonstrates how unreal it all is.
Ofcourse if they accepted any of this for one second, they would have to leave their fellowships
because to not full the party line is a quick trip to the exit door and doomed to hell.
To avoid admitting morality matters in the walk of Christ, a list of law has been
created
Law of the Spirit
Law of Christ.
Now to avoid the law being the law, ie commands, it is Christ himself. But a being
or person cannot be the a set of rules, they can be the example of those rules, the
power behind the rules, the doorway to the rules.
So you end up in linguistic junk. A law like do not murder/kill is quite simple.
Paul talks about this being fulfilled in "love your neighbour", that in Christ we exercise
through His love. (rom 13:10)
So either we are bound by this moral directive or not. In the law of Christ, we are bound
by it. As soon as you hate rules so deeply you condemn anyone who holds to them or
expresses them you are actually condemning the Lord, who is the author of the law, which
expresses His will.
It is why I call this unbelievably self destructive. Also the biggest joke of all is most of these
guys are right wing supporters of rules and morality. The idea of free love, and letting things
just hang out, blow your mind away on the next trip man, is the opposite of where they are.
But I think this also demonstrates how unreal it all is.
Ofcourse if they accepted any of this for one second, they would have to leave their fellowships
because to not full the party line is a quick trip to the exit door and doomed to hell.
I wonder how someone can spout such venom against righteous living good believers,
condemning following Jesus's commands and then say it is wrong to believe they are
against this is plan lying.
At a simple level God is saying do this and do not do that.
The Lord even declares fearing Him as a motivation towards this is a good thing.
It is pure heresy to talk and teach against this.
The failure is in what obedience achieves or failure to obey because the motivation is wrong
is a key issue that needs addressing.
Through the cross we discover Gods love for us, the depth and breadth and beauty of it all.
By applying this to our lives through repentance and faith we have the means to obey and
walk.
Now this clear message is what some hate, and continually oppose. It has been the message
of the church since the resurrection and the giving of the Holy Spirit.
As was demonstrated some days ago, some are happy to condemn 90% of the christian church
to hell, because they hold to morality.
What you have to realise is our culture has become amoral, and selling an amoral story is the
simplest way to sell a religious agenda. Funnily this is often the justification for this distortion,
claiming love will bring them into morality, except the theology has destroyed moralities true
foundation in God.
The sky is still blue...
The religion of man and his humanistic belief system is always trying to achieve by what they do or don't do - what Christ has already done. We receive His life and walk in Him by grace through faith alone in what He has done.
Make no mistake about it - the gospel of the grace of God in Christ is a major stumbling block to those that seek to do their own righteousness.
Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.
Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".
They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.
This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed asthe ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
( notice that is "their"works )
This below in 1 Peter 1:13 is what satan is really after...this is why he has false prophets/teachers in our midst.
He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance and human will-power instead of what Christ has done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
The religion of man and his humanistic belief system is always trying to achieve by what they do or don't do - what Christ has already done. We receive His life and walk in Him by grace through faith alone in what He has done.
Make no mistake about it - the gospel of the grace of God in Christ is a major stumbling block to those that seek to do their own righteousness.
Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.
Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".
They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.
This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed asthe ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
( notice that is "their"works )
This below in 1 Peter 1:13 is what satan is really after...this is why he has false prophets/teachers in our midst.
He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance and human will-power instead of what Christ has done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.