Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

[Grace777x70]

just a bunch of noise from a deceiver, who purposely leaves out parts of verses he quotes, then calls someone who points this out wicked. no credibility, just noise from someone who thinks ( way wrongly) that they do not sin.

And that's why the sky is blue..

What happens in some people's minds is this:

Someone makes the statement:

"What a beautiful blue sky the Lord gave us today."

Someone else responds back to the above statement:

"What? The sky is not green- everyone knows that the sky is blue - you are in heresy and you are speaking venom against righteous good living believers, a heretic and false teacher, etc."

When people have this kind of a mindset - it is impossible to have any kind of a rational discussion with them as they continually "see" something else than what is actually said. They then proceed to talk as if this "made-up thought" is real.

And sometimes we can just agree to disagree too but to deliberately mis-represent what is really being said is deceitful and with these types I have no interaction with until I see that they are at the very least being honest in their discussions and not being abusive and insulting others.

I find it fascinating that some of the ones that say "we are to walk righteously and in purity of heart" are the very ones being deceitful. Deceit is just as much a work of the flesh as living the homosexual lifestyle.

As the saying goes - There is something wrong in Denmark and is most likely just a waste of time to interact with such a mindset as no good can come out of it until repentance is granted by the Lord.

 

[PeterJens]

just a bunch of noise from a deceiver, who purposely leaves out parts of verses he quotes, then calls someone who points this out wicked. no credibility, just noise from someone who thinks ( way wrongly) that they do not sin.

gb9 - Thankyou, I love your frank in your face honesty. It is like a cold shower in the morning,
refreshing. God bless you.

And by the way reader I have never said I do not sin, I have just declared I live with no expectation
of sinning, rather I live as a purified, Holy, redeemed Child of the Living God.
And I hope and pray you do also, with Christs love and word abiding in your hearts, Amen.

And if I do sin, I know if I confess my sin and repent, in Christ I have forgiveness for my sins. Amen.

 

[Grace777x70]

We can see that satan's main goal, besides trying to steal glory away from Christ, is to convince man that Christ's finished work of redemption is IN-sufficient to save us and keep man trusting in his own righteousness.

I agree. satan loves religion!

 

[mailmandan]

I agree. satan loves religion!

Yes, he wants us to be "religious," BUT NOT RIGHT WITH GOD. There are many religions in the world, but ONLY ONE CHRISTIANITY.

 

[PeterJens]

Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Rom 10:4

To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
1 cor 9:21

Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
gal 6:2

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands.
2 John 2:6

In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
1 John 5:3

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
roms 13:8-10

You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:14

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
John 15:10

 

[PeterJens]

I agree. satan loves religion!

Does this mean you love atheism?

The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.
Psalm 14:1

 

[PeterJens]

I used to think my opponents knew the Lord and knew scripture.
I now understand both was me being more kind than they deserved.

Let me make two statements
I love sinners, I hate the self righteous.
You should be good because you want to be good.

The self righteous are just people aware they are doing good things.
Sinners often are unaware they are doing evil.
Being good and knowing you are behaving in a good way is being self righteous.

Now if someone says, you are condemning doing good, I could claim, not I approve of this.
If someone says I am promoting sinful behaviour, I could say we are all sinners, so I am just
being honest.

The problem is either say sin is ok, and one does not have a moral framework, or you should live
righteously. Condemning a moral framework while claiming one is hypocracy and a contradiction,
ending in self condemnation.

This is why God does not condemn righteous behaviour, only showing off about it.
What is condemned is sin and hypocracy.

What our culture is sensitive to is judgmental morality. So the claim is Christ is not
judgmental except we are to eject believers who refuse to repent of clear sin.
And Christ will work with us through our issues, but our goal is to walk like Christ
righteously and in love.

Now this is all pretty clear, but I know I will be abused and slandered as if I am
some terrible evil. But then all new faiths must do this to establish themselves,
and claim precedence over what happened before.

 

[PeterJens]

I used to think my opponents knew the Lord and knew scripture.
I now understand both was me being more kind than they deserved.

Let me make two statements
I love sinners, I hate the self righteous.
You should be good because you want to be good.

The self righteous are just people aware they are doing good things.
Sinners often are unaware they are doing evil.
Being good and knowing you are behaving in a good way is being self righteous.

Now if someone says, you are condemning doing good, I could claim, not I approve of this.
If someone says I am promoting sinful behaviour, I could say we are all sinners, so I am just
being honest.

The problem is either say sin is ok, and one does not have a moral framework, or you should live
righteously. Condemning a moral framework while claiming one is hypocracy and a contradiction,
ending in self condemnation.

This is why God does not condemn righteous behaviour, only showing off about it.
What is condemned is sin and hypocracy.

What our culture is sensitive to is judgmental morality. So the claim is Christ is not
judgmental except we are to eject believers who refuse to repent of clear sin.
And Christ will work with us through our issues, but our goal is to walk like Christ.

Now this is all pretty clear, but I know I will be abused and slandered as if I am
some terrible evil. But then all new faiths must do this to establish themselves,
and claim precedence over what happened before.

 

[PeterJens]

For our offenses are many in your sight, and our sins testify against us.
Our offenses are ever with us, and we acknowledge our iniquities:
rebellion and treachery against the Lord, turning our backs on our God,
inciting revolt and oppression, uttering lies our hearts have conceived.
So justice is driven back, and righteousness stands at a distance;
truth has stumbled in the streets, honesty cannot enter.
Truth is nowhere to be found, and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.

Isaiah 59:12-15

 

[valiant]

At a simple level God is saying do this and do not do that.

At a simple level God knows that first we need saving from the guilt and power of sin. The epistles of Paul all put doctrine first.

The Lord even declares fearing Him as a motivation towards this is a good thing.

It is pure heresy to talk and teach against this.

who does talk and teach against this?

The failure is in what obedience achieves or failure to obey because the motivation is wrong
is a key issue that needs addressing.

Once a person is truly saved by God obedience will follow. Until he is saved there will be no obedience although there may be a pretence of it.

Through the cross we discover Gods love for us, the depth and breadth and beauty of it all.

We discover far more. As a result of the cross we find forgiveness, and mercy, pardon and peace, and a new life. Then we respond to His love in a real way as we realise how great it is, something that only the truly saved can know.

By applying this to our lives through repentance and faith we have the means to obey and walk.

By coming to the cross we yield ourselves to Him and find life in His Name.. Then we have the means to obey and walk with Him,

Now this clear message is what some hate, and continually oppose

Your message is waffle, and you seem to avoid the essential significance of the cross.. True obedience results from being saved by the power of the cross.

It has been the message of the church since the resurrection and the giving of the Holy Spirit.

What I teach, yes.

As was demonstrated some days ago, some are happy to condemn 90% of the christian church
to hell, because they hold to morality.

No, they are condemned because they have never truly come to the Savior for salvation. They are trying to save themselves.

 

[PeterJens]

At a simple level God knows that first we need saving from the guilt and power of sin. The epistles of Paul all put doctrine first.
who does talk and teach against this?
Once a person is truly saved by God obedience will follow. Until he is saved there will be no obedience although there may be a pretence of it.
We discover far more. As a result of the cross we find forgiveness, and mercy, pardon and peace, and a new life. Then we respond to His love in a real way as we realise how great it is, something that only the truly saved can know.
By coming to the cross we yield ourselves to Him and find life in His Name.. Then we have the means to obey and walk with Him,
Your message is waffle, and you seem to avoid the essential significance of the cross.. True obedience results from being saved by the power of the cross.
What I teach, yes.
No, they are condemned because they have never truly come to the Savior for salvation. They are trying to save themselves.

God bless you valiant. If you want you can take apart what I shared, fine. I was addressing a certain
approach taken by others.

I think this point may have passed you by.
Secondly it sounds like we actually believe the same things.

But you want a little rant, so be my guest.

On the cross issue, the cross is everything, but I will not mention the cross in every
post, because I am focusing on something else.

God bless you, and may Jesus walk well with you.

 

[PeterJens]

Your message is waffle

Always appreciate constructive criticism, God bless you.

 

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action. Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.

Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.

I'm gonna be nice & ask for scripture references that provide evidence that what you're saying is true.

I think the readers deserve to see some proof, especially since I've seen you post this several times as if it's a well-known doctrine.

This isn't malice or slander, just a call on the carpet. I get called on the carpet all the time & have to give scripture to prove what I post.

Are you going to answer me or not?

 

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

His faith was completed as a result of already being declared righteous by God. Knowing the truth about what God says about us releases true faith to grow and be manifested. There is a false way of trying to create works in order to create and maintain righteousness. This is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

I don't understand these statements at all.

This makes no sense. It seems you are saying people are actually eating from the tree that was in Eden.

It doesn't sound like a symbolic statement.

Where is this teaching in the Bible?!?

Are you gonna explain this one?

 

[Grace777x70]

James is comparing works of faith with Abraham and Rahab. How many times did Abraham go to sacrifice Isaac on the altar? How many times did Rahab do her thing in order to be show her faith?


James 2:21-22 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

[SUP]22 [/SUP] You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

James 2:25 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

Those that believe we must work for our salvation can get offended at the truth that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit forever when we come to Christ.

This below in brown is what is being said in relation to receiving Christ in our hearts and being cleansed by His blood - receiving the forgiveness of sins.

True faith will have a corresponding action of some kind.

Let's look at what James says about faith & it's corresponding "work" in relation to having eternal life now and forever because we heard the message of Christ and believed on Him - then we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13

It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action. Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.

Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.

.............................................

 

[Stephen63]

Faith is described as - the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). That's what faith IS. In the whole chapter of Hebrews 11, notice in all of these occurences that it was "by" or "out of" faith, they accomplished these works. Not, faith (in essence) is all of these works. *Faith is not defined as works. *We are saved by faith at it's origin, not at some time later, based on the merits of our works. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.

I'm wondering how those in easy believeism can have faith, because they are no longer convicted of anything.

These belief systems always seem to be full of holes without explanations.

 

[Grace777x70]

Anyone interested in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - this is a great teaching that talks about it. How this is still in the world today. The fruit of good and evil are on the same tree. This was released into the world through Adam's transgression and it is still the "way of the world." - Paul calls it the elementary principles of the world - touch not - taste not.


They live by and create and maintain their own righteousness by what they do or don't do.

All religions of the world live by it - including the D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness religion that some try to pass of as Christianity.


[video=youtube;C6fvXTBU7tc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6fvXTBU7tc[/video]

 

[Stephen63]

It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action. Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.

Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.

Posting this a second time didn't explain anything.

You haven't proven your post.

You DO realize your statement changes the whole OT teachings on faith, don't you?

This is a big deal..... you need to bring forth evidence.

 

[Grace777x70]

Some people have an evangelical anaphylaxis event in their minds when they hear that the Holy Spirit does not "convict" the believer of sins because we have been taught differently.

The Holy Spirit convicts/convinces the believer of the righteousness that is in us which indirectly points to the "works of the flesh" that we need to repent of ( change our minds on how we view them ).

For example things like malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

His life that is in us because of righteousness causes the works of the flesh to drop off us as we "become" who we really are in Christ in our new man - the new creation. This is "walking by the spirit" which will stop the flesh from fulfilling "it's" desires.

The word " convict/reprove/convince/expose" in question has many meanings attached to it as well.

It is only used 1 time in KJV as "convict"....it is used more often with the word "to reprove/rebuke/convince/expose"...the word needs to be looked at in the "context" that it is used...

It is a revealing of things.....to the world the Holy Spirit reveals/convinces/expose their sin of unbelief in Jesus..

To the believer He reveals/convinces/expose that they are the righteousness of Christ because He went to the Father to stand as an Advocate.

John 16:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world ( unbelievers ) concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they ( unbelievers ) do not believe in Me;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you ( believers ) no longer see Me;

1 John 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

[SUP]2 [/SUP] and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.


Here are a few examples of the same exact word used in scripture...as one can clearly see....this word has many uses depending on the context.

1 Corinthians 14:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

Titus 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Matthew 18:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

John 8:46 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

So, we can clearly seen the Greek word translated once in the KJV as "convict" really means to expose, reveal, convince people of something.

 

[Grace777x70]

If we keep preaching and teaching the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ - faith will come to those who don't hardened their hearts against Christ. ( PS. this works on ministers in their own denominations too)

Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.