Does Anyone Here Teach The Following?

[Roughsoul1991]

It's because of the man-made doctrines attached to the word. Some misunderstanding and some taught by wolves preaching extreme strawmen (like babies will go to hell..there are preachers in the world who teach this false doctrine and claim to be reformed or Calvinist but are just false minister of self righteousness)

Yep a good study on does infants and mentally handicapped go to hell will put pre election to death where it belongs. Have you ever been in the birthing wing of the hospital and look through the window to see all the baby's just born. Now think one is predestined to heaven while the other is predestined to hell.

See how stupid that sounds.

Its seems more logical and in balance with the nature of God to allow free will. The free will acting in cohesion with the inner soul that in many ways is connected to its creator. Like a infant in search for their mother. Like artwork is forever connected to its artist. We are drawn by God and connected to God. Everyone. Not a few elect.

God predestined a means of final atonement of sins for all who would only believe. All names begin in the book of life. The only scripture we have speaking on the book of life mentions names being taken from the book of life. The elect will be those whos names have remained or been foreseen written in the book of life.

Its like saying in battle 2 bullets are pre elected one to kill and one to miss the target. 2 soldiers in battle come pre elected to face these 2 bullets. One soldier dies and the other is safe. If God pre elects salvation then we are without free will and then that makes God also in complete control of his creations death. Now we know God gives life and takes life, but at the same time we know the fallen nature of the world, free will, evil and disease also takes life sooner than Gods planned number of days. Just as God gave us all a number of days to live but by our choices and choices of others can limit those days. If God didnt allow free will then we would have to believe God makes children get sick with cancer or people to starve to death.

It all comes down to God had a plan predestined to save mankind. The gift is there for all who have faith in the one who made this gift a possibility. To try and describe Gods full interaction and self limited interaction on certain aspects with man is like trying to describe the unknown.

 

[Meggido]

Oh...you are a dual covenant believer?

Separate way of salvation for Jews and Gentiles?

Or do you mean something else?

I believe Peter ministered to both Jews and Gentiles..it's in Acts 11.

I did skim the thread. I still believe Jesus called His people (both Jew and gentile) His sheep

Galatians 3:28 ►
New International Version
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

There are actually 8 Covenants in the Bible. 5 were made with Israel and 3 with mankind in general.

 

[kaylagrl]

Mary had a little lamb with mint jelly

Only had mutton one time.All I can say is it was a good,long chew!

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes, I know, and there is also this to which you turn a blinded eye then name call:

shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; 1 Peter 5:2.

That's by Peter as well.

I also gave you another verse then conceded that sonship is another name for us as well. To that you name called in callow manner in a follow up reply.

What I conveyed is you need to think more toward 2 Timothy 2:15 and see the several names we are called in NT theology. Sonship and sheep are both valid and for some reason that provoked you to name call. Twice.

It's your tone in the posts preacher. Like you have a ruler in hand and want to slap me with it. I don't like the tone.

Question me in a respectful manner and I'll answer you the same.

And as I said already...Peter writes to the Jews...of course he's going to use those terms. But, Paul received the revelation that was never heard of in Israel. That God would actually dwell in men.

Sons..now please show me where sons is a name. And what name did I call you?

 

[Rockrz]

WOP doctrine

Never heard of "WOP" doctrine... what's that?

Just that without God folks chose to sin.

No, they don't choose sin... all people are born in to sin and have no choice but to walk in it because the devil has blinded them so they only know sin:

2 Corinthians 4:3,4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Folks need to hear the Gospel...

Paul wrote a lot of cautions on the Bible.

Yeah, they're called WARNINGS

Most false doctrine is birthed and incubated in the human mind,not satan.

satan fed it to the human main in seed form and it grew from there... satan is always behind false teaching, as he is always ministering a campaign of mis-information... it's called deception.

 

[graceNpeace]

He uses goats metaphorically as the reprobate. Why He used sheep and goats instead of horses and donkeys only He knows.

Actually, the answer to this is not hard.

If you have ever been to the Middle East and watched livestock on the hills it becomes obvious.
Sheep are never driven from place to place but are literally led - when the shepherd wants to go home he just gets up and calls the sheep and they follow him home.
Also the shepherd will actually know every animal as an individual - usually named.
Sheep are also careful eaters.

Contrast this with goats - they wander as they please, do not respond well to human direction, eat anything and will totally destroy a pasture if left to their own devices.

Even today in the Middle East a spiritual analogy using sheep and goats would be instantly understood.

For the rest of the world there are two issues which make analogies like this pretty opaque:
Firstly, most folk today are urbanised and never see either sheep or goats expressing natural behaviour, and
Secondly, apart from the Middle East livestock are generally herded and not led.
How many stock farmers do you know who could call their stock by name and have them follow him like a dog?
Probably none - yet this is the daily reality in the Middle East.

 

[Meggido]

It's your tone in the posts preacher. Like you have a ruler in hand and want to slap me with it. I don't like the tone.

Question me in a respectful manner and I'll answer you the same.

And as I said already...Peter writes to the Jews...of course he's going to use those terms. But, Paul received the revelation that was never heard of in Israel. That God would actually dwell in men.

Sons..now please show me where sons is a name. And what name did I call you?

He won't do that and he cannot do that. He is known as an enforcer. One who is a self-appointed guardian/guiding spirit of the doctrine, who try to liberate those who do not know the truth.

 

[stonesoffire]

The scripture in Timothy is saying not to argue over things that destroy the faith of others.

None of these things I've brought up destroy but declare the postion of His body on earth.

What was lost in the garden...sons...is restored.

 

[BeyondET]

There are actually 8 Covenants in the Bible. 5 were made with Israel and 3 with mankind in general.

 

[Rockrz]

There are actually 8 Covenants in the Bible. 5 were made with Israel and 3 with mankind in general.

Then there's the covenant between the Father and Jesus... it's perfect so no need for any more covenants.

 

[notuptome]

I know those angels couldn't. My reason for using that is ppl use that saying to say Jesus could have bailed. He could not. He is bound by His word.

Now, do you think He could have bailed?

There is an eternity of difference between could and would. Jesus could see the inevitable outcome of His sacrifice on Calvary. For this Jesus went to the cross and drank deeply of the bitter curse of sin.

The greater Spiritual truth is in the attitude of the Servant. Jesus saw the joy that was set before Him and rejoiced to do the will of the Father. Things done with a wrong heart attitude are of no merit with God. Even Jesus remarked that evil men could give good gifts but they were of no eternal value for righteousness sake.

God is able to do anything but God only does what is in His determinate will and within His divine character.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[stonesoffire]

Covenants fulfilled:
Gen 15:1　 Some time later, a message came from the LORD to Abram in a vision: "Don't be afraid, Abram. I am your shield; your reward will be very great."　
Gen 15:2　 But Abram replied, "Lord GOD, what can you give me since I continue to be childless, and the heir of my household is Eliezer from Damascus?　
Gen 15:3　 Look!" Abram said, "You haven't given me any offspring, so a servant born in my house is going to be my heir."　
Gen 15:4　 A message came from the LORD to him again: "This one will not be your heir. Instead, the child who will be born to you will be your heir."　
Gen 15:5　 Then the LORD took him outside. "Look up at the sky and count the stars—if you can!" he said. "Your descendants will be that numerous."　
Gen 15:6　 Abram believed the LORD, and it was credited to him as righteousness.　
Gen 15:7　 The LORD spoke to him, "I am the LORD, who brought you from Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land as an inheritance."　
Gen 15:8　 But he replied, "Lord GOD, how will I know that I will inherit it?"　
Gen 15:9　 The LORD responded, "Bring me a three year old cow, a three year old female goat, a three year old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon."　
Gen 15:10　 So Abram brought him all these animals and cut each of them in half, down the middle, placing the pieces opposite each other, but he did not cut the birds in half.　
Gen 15:11　 When birds of prey swooped down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.　
Gen 15:12　 As the sun began to set, Abram was overcome with deep sleep, and suddenly a frightening and terrifying darkness descended on him.　
Gen 15:13　 Then the LORD told Abram, "You can be certain about this: Your descendants will be foreigners in a land that isn't theirs. They will be slaves there and will be oppressed for 400 years.　
Gen 15:14　 However, I will judge the nation that they serve, and later they will leave there with many possessions.　
Gen 15:15　 Now as for you, you'll die peacefully, join your ancestors, and be buried at a good old age.　
Gen 15:16　 Your descendants will return here in the fourth generation, since the iniquity of the Amorites has not yet run its course."　
Gen 15:17　 When the sun had fully set and it was dark, a smoking fire pot and a fiery torch passed between the animal pieces.　
Gen 15:18　 That very day the LORD made this covenant with Abram: "I'm giving this land to your descendants, from the river of Egypt to the great Euphrates River—　
Gen 15:19　 including the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites,　
Gen 15:20　 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim,　
Gen 15:21　 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites."　

for Israel...land.

 

[stonesoffire]

Then there's the covenant between the Father and Jesus... it's perfect so no need for any more covenants.

Inheritance. Sheep? or Sons?

 

[Angela53510]

It's a wrong picture though SG. We are not "beast"; we have the image of God being formed within. Sheep can't have this. They have to "follow". Don't like that word either. Led. Led by His Voice...by Holy Spirit...sometimes through the Word (written) and other times through His Spirit in our spirit.

So you are saying you don't like Jesus' parable, because it doesn't fit your Word Faith doctrine? Interesting!

I think I'll take the Words of Jesus over some cult leaders!

 

[preacher4truth]

It's your tone in the posts preacher. Like you have a ruler in hand and want to slap me with it. I don't like the tone.

I have no tone. The only tone you are detecting is your disdain for me.

Question me in a respectful manner and I'll answer you the same.

I've done so, and you come back with name calling and then apologize.

And as I said already...Peter writes to the Jews...of course he's going to use those terms. But, Paul received the revelation that was never heard of in Israel. That God would actually dwell in men.

The Jews to which he wrote are also of the church. And if that isn't enough, Paul called the church the flock as well. You're confused possibly by hyper dispensationalism .

Sons..now please show me where sons is a name

Sonship, it is a reference. Here is the thing, you can never be wrong so you fight and call names when proven in error. I've shown you plainly that we are named a couple things in Scripture. Let me add one more: we are called slaves of Christ. Certainly you will not like that term.

And what name did I call you?

You're the one who has apologized, I've said nothing to you wherein I need to apologize to you. Several times when you've been offered correction you've gone into attack mode, then you accuse me of it.

You have nothing on me other than you now accuse of "tone". The tone is in your own ears, it is due to your disdain for me and that is a fact.

 

[preacher4truth]

So you are saying you don't like Jesus' parable, because it doesn't fit your Word Faith doctrine? Interesting!

I think I'll take the Words of Jesus over some cult leaders!

Me too. If the WoF and charimatic types don't like a passage they simply twist it until it fits their needs.

Ever look into synonyms for charisma? You should, it will be enlightening. It explains the "biblical abracadabra" they practice.

 

[preacher4truth]

Jim Jones only had a differing opinion, he was a member of the body of Christ, like the eye, or arm, or hand. We shouldn't slander him for his differing views.

But burn the Reformed at the stake; immediately if not sooner.

 

[Ariel82]

There are actually 8 Covenants in the Bible. 5 were made with Israel and 3 with mankind in general.

Only one that offers salvation and eternal life as God's adopted children.

 

[Ariel82]

Actually, the answer to this is not hard.

If you have ever been to the Middle East and watched livestock on the hills it becomes obvious.
Sheep are never driven from place to place but are literally led - when the shepherd wants to go home he just gets up and calls the sheep and they follow him home.
Also the shepherd will actually know every animal as an individual - usually named.
Sheep are also careful eaters.

Contrast this with goats - they wander as they please, do not respond well to human direction, eat anything and will totally destroy a pasture if left to their own devices.

Even today in the Middle East a spiritual analogy using sheep and goats would be instantly understood.

For the rest of the world there are two issues which make analogies like this pretty opaque:
Firstly, most folk today are urbanised and never see either sheep or goats expressing natural behaviour, and
Secondly, apart from the Middle East livestock are generally herded and not led.
How many stock farmers do you know who could call their stock by name and have them follow him like a dog?
Probably none - yet this is the daily reality in the Middle East.

Makes me want to visit the Middle east and go sheep and goat watching.

 

[Johnny_B]

Yep a good study on does infants and mentally handicapped go to hell will put pre election to death where it belongs. Have you ever been in the birthing wing of the hospital and look through the window to see all the baby's just born. Now think one is predestined to heaven while the other is predestined to hell.

See how stupid that sounds.

Its seems more logical and in balance with the nature of God to allow free will. The free will acting in cohesion with the inner soul that in many ways is connected to its creator. Like a infant in search for their mother. Like artwork is forever connected to its artist. We are drawn by God and connected to God. Everyone. Not a few elect.

God predestined a means of final atonement of sins for all who would only believe. All names begin in the book of life. The only scripture we have speaking on the book of life mentions names being taken from the book of life. The elect will be those whos names have remained or been foreseen written in the book of life.

Its like saying in battle 2 bullets are pre elected one to kill and one to miss the target. 2 soldiers in battle come pre elected to face these 2 bullets. One soldier dies and the other is safe. If God pre elects salvation then we are without free will and then that makes God also in complete control of his creations death. Now we know God gives life and takes life, but at the same time we know the fallen nature of the world, free will, evil and disease also takes life sooner than Gods planned number of days. Just as God gave us all a number of days to live but by our choices and choices of others can limit those days. If God didnt allow free will then we would have to believe God makes children get sick with cancer or people to starve to death.

It all comes down to God had a plan predestined to save mankind. The gift is there for all who have faith in the one who made this gift a possibility. To try and describe Gods full interaction and self limited interaction on certain aspects with man is like trying to describe the unknown.

Who teaches that you, read John 2:17-20 Jesus did not come to condemn, people are condemned already. That's what this thread is about trying to find who teaches this, because no Calvinist here does. It's a straw man the people that think they know what Calvinism teaches.