Does Anyone Here Teach The Following?

[stonesoffire]

I actually know 1 John quite well. Besides the children's song, which is based on this verse, 1 John is an easy read in Greek. Now, I don't say that to lord it over anyone, but because, you have pulled a verse out of context, which is the usual Word Faith modus operandi. Reading in Greek helps me focus not just on individual verses, but on the overall context.

So, do you have any idea what the book of 1 John is about at all? Probably not, since you don't seem to have a clue about the book of John, the book of Galatians, and certainly not Romans. But I digress.

1 John is a book addressed to believers, to talk about sin, and how we are not to sin, but instead, to walk in the light.

"If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin" 1 John 1:10 - 2:1

How do we walk in the light?

"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him" 1 John 2:15

So, for my final lesson on context tonight, let's put 1 John 3:1 into context, and see if it is talking about sonship, or if it is talking about avoiding sin, (because we are the children of God.)

"See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears[a] we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother."

My plea to you is to please read the whole book. The book of 1 John, the book of John, the book of Romans, and ALL the books of the Bible. You have a sadly truncated view of the truths of the Bible. In fact, this parroting of a few verses indicates to me, that you desperately need to start reading the Bible, and stop pulling verses out of context, and trying to force them to say things they do not say.


Or worse, totally rejecting so much of Scripture. One has to wonder if someone can actually be saved, and not believe so much of God's Word!

Angela

Im not rejecting anything of scripture. But, what I've said is what Paul, and the other apostles have said. Jesus has given us Sonship. Now God is our Father.

We are not sheep. The nation of Israel was and still is.

Not servants which they were and still are to law, but sons in the house of God.

You and preacher are making a big deal about simple truth. It's plainly written in scripture. I'm pointing it out.

 

[stonesoffire]

We are also called vines. [Romans 11 and John 14]
We are called sheep. [Ezekiel 34 and John 10]

Well then, wrap yourself around the tree of life and baaa..



Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I'm not hostile to the metaphor. I said Israel is the sheep. Peter was told to feed His lambs and sheep, true. He had the ministry to the Jews. And Paul to the gentiles.

~

And Jesus said He had other sheep that were not of this(Jews) fold. He must gather them in and there would be one Shephers(Jesus) and one sheep fold.

Then we can see that the wild and natural olive shoots(Jews and Gentiles) are in the one Vine, that Vine being Jesus. So, the sheep metaphor and the vine metaphor shows that all believers, both Jews and Gentiles, have one Leader, that Leader being the Christ.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yes, I know, and there is also this to which you turn a blinded eye then name call:

shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; 1 Peter 5:2.

That's by Peter as well.

I also gave you another verse then conceded that sonship is another name for us as well. To that you name called in callow manner in a follow up reply.

What I conveyed is you need to think more toward 2 Timothy 2:15 and see the several names we are called in NT theology. Sonship and sheep are both valid and for some reason that provoked you to name call. Twice.

You have to remember who we are debating. The other side of the aisle says...

--All means all w/o leaving anyone out
--World means world and leaves no one out
--Love means love
--Hate does not mean hate but love less
--Sheep does not mean sheep
--Wrath does not mean wrath only indignation...someone on another site said that

When you have a faulty hermeneutic, you can't stay in a straight line with your theology.

I am thinking this is like the Scarecrow in Wizard of Oz after the monkeys take Dorothy captive. The Scarecrow is laying there and screaming, "They took my legs and threw them over there! And they took my chest and threw it there!" And the Tin Man said what I am thinking about their theology; "Well, that's just like you all over!" Their hermeneutic is so scattered, it scatters their theology.

 

[stonesoffire]

SG

Seperate the body of Christ from the nation of Israel to see the difference.

The body of Christ is a new Genesis of man, spiritual men and women, not on earth since Adam and Eve, if they were light beings, the one new man we are called, a new creation.

Talk about a revelation. Israel couldn't accept something different either.



So you all want to be sheep? Who's really rejecting truth here?

 

[ForthAngel]

So you all want to be sheep? Who's really rejecting truth here?

You. And you've exchanged it for myths of your own creation.

 

[Magenta]

You have to remember who we are debating. The other side of the aisle says...

--All means all w/o leaving anyone out
--World means world and leaves no one out
--Love means love
--Hate does not mean hate but love less
--Sheep does not mean sheep
--Wrath does not mean wrath only indignation...someone on another site said that

When you have a faulty hermeneutic, you can't stay in a straight line with your theology.

I am thinking this is like the Scarecrow in Wizard of Oz after the monkeys take Dorothy captive. The Scarecrow is laying there and screaming, "They took my legs and threw them over there! And they took my chest and threw it there!" And the Tin Man said what I am thinking about their theology; "Well, that's just like you all over!" Their hermeneutic is so scattered, it scatters their theology.

That's funny, cuz when I gave the Scripture that said Jesus died for our sins and not only ours but for the sins of the whole world, I was told, oh, it does not mean what it says. Geesh. It's like some cannot grasp the simplest of concepts no matter how plainly they are written!

 

[stonesoffire]

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons ofGod: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.


Funny how they left out sheep in these verses.

Theres a huge difference in the service of sheep and the ministry of Sons.

 

[SovereignGrace]

servants, no. That is not what we have been given through Jesus. Heirs of His inheritance left for us to reign in life by.

Im never so surprised as when I see just how much the children of God do not understand what we are. What Yeshua bought for us so that He can call us brethren.

Servants, no??? So Paul was hoodwinked when he said he was a servant of the Christ?

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God—[Romans 1:1]

Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all God’s holy people in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the overseers and deacons:[Philippians 1:1] I guess he hoodwinked Timothy too?

Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness—[Titus 1:1] There's that pesky 'elect' word again, too.

3 outta the 13 books accredited to Paul he used the word servant. You know better than this, Sissy.

 

[Rockrz]

God creates calamity at times.

And, that's what is coming your way for believing God and the devil are the same guy... you need to dig deeper and see that God only does this to His enemies not to everyone like you nutjobs believe.

You obviously believe Jesus lied in John 10:10... but, what else is new?

had the decenty to read what we say

Why would anyone want to read lies inspired by satan that claim only bits and pieces of God's Word is true?

Did you not learn anything from what happened in the garden of eden?... obviously not.

I've studied enough of calvin's garbage over the years to know it's not of God... calvin is not inspired of the Lord like you cult followers claim he is

 

[stonesoffire]

Servants, no??? So Paul was hoodwinked when he said he was a servant of the Christ?

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God—[Romans 1:1]

Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all God’s holy people in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the overseers and deacons:[Philippians 1:1] I guess he hoodwinked Timothy too?

Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness—[Titus 1:1] There's that pesky 'elect' word again, too.

3 outta the 13 books accredited to Paul he used the word servant. You know better than this, Sissy.

Paul, a son who willingly became a bond servant to Yeshua that we might have a "new revelation".

and you should know better mr...

 

[SovereignGrace]

That's funny, cuz when I gave the Scripture that said Jesus died for our sins and not only ours but for the sins of the whole world, I was told, oh, it does not mean what it says. Geesh. It's like some cannot grasp the simplest of concepts no matter how plainly they are written!

When you have a consistent hermeneutic like I have, you can truly grasp things in their proper context.

Jesus is the atoning sacrifice(propitiation) for the sins of the whole world. Now, you guys keep conflating 'world', 'whole world', 'all' as being everybody w/o exception. But let's do a Greek word study for the word 'propitiation'...


Propitiation means God's wrath concerning sin has been appeased, satiated, satisified, &c. Now, if God's wrath has been appeased in regards to all w/o ever lived, then there's no wrath to be meted out on the day of Judgment.

Here are some synonyms for propitiation...

appeasement
abatement
assuage
reconcilement
placate
pacify

Now, Jesus' crosswork was all of these for the whole world, meaning it covers the entire earth, but not every human being whoever lived. If Jesus died for all mankind, then all mankind's sins have be atoned, the Father has been propitiated, His wrath is removed for everybody whoever lived, and all humanity goes to heaven, bar none. Hello universalism.

Look at it like this. Billy Graham is known all over the world, but not everyone has heard of Billy Graham, neither do they know anything about him. The Christ is known all over the whole world, yet many died never knowing He existed.

Now, I am waiting for Romans 1...AGAIN!!!

 

[Desertsrose]

Hi Lynn,

In the other thread, Kayla was offering what she believed in after studying and hearing about what Calvinism believes.

So she posts an article written by Dave Hunt in her thread. He's a respected man of God by many and his ministry is in apologetics with the Arminian view of theology.

All that happened that caused the barrage of names, accusations, etc was that she told P4T that he didn't believe in free grace.

So she left off the word theology. It was inferred by the article how Calvinism is wrong, how man is saved by free grace or free will.

When Kayla spoke that........all I can say is that you'd think that kids had entered the room throwing tantrums. I nor Kayla was saying that you don't believe in free grace in other areas of life. The topic was salvation and that Calvinism isn't the correct view, but that free will is or free grace.

To chide her or anyone for saying that the Calvinist doesn't believe in free grace was childish, disrespectful, disingenuous among other things.

You (those involved) all jumped on her right from the start because she made the mistake of not adding theology to the phrase or saying free will instead of free grace, when all the time the topic of discussion was obvious.

I also want to add, Lynn, that no one was telling you personally what you believe. It was about Calvinist's theology. If the shoe fit wear it, if it didn't, don't wear it. And tell us it doesn't fit before you begin calling someone a liar.

Because if the shoe doesn't fit you, it does and will fit other Calvinists. Which is something I brought up to you. There are differing views on Calvinism and different camps that would disagree with one another.

The Calvinist church I belonged to was hyper calvinism so it would be even worse than what some of you probably believe here in this thread.

For one, it gives God pleasure for some to be damned. The non-elect elevates God's sovereignty some how and brings Him glory.

These poor souls don't even know if they're truly saved (one of the elect).

I heard on the radio about three years ago that we can't do anything good as believers. We can't even pray a good prayer. We're still so depraved and yet the bible says we're a new creation, the old has passed and the new has come.

Anyway, so the article(s) were not received well by the Calvinists. And rightly so. The point is that what was said about Calvinists in the articles might apply to you and might not given that there are different schools of thought in the Calvinist camp. Same as Arminians, you'll find different beliefs there as well.

So generally speaking, the article covered God's sovereignty, how one is saved and how Dave's view is in disagreement with Calvinism. So if the article doesn't resemble you, why get so upset? Instead of saying Kayla was putting words in your mouth, she wasn't.

She posted an article and if you didn't agree with it, just say so. Good grief, would that have been so difficult? And whatever you disagreed with, couldn't you have just said what you believed?

Isn't it time to get over it, apologize and love and forgive one another?

I do give that people just don't know. I did give that. Even spent days explaining it. But at what point, after repeating the same thing again and again, and the person just repeats what's been told over what people of that persuasion tell them, does it finally turn into it is lies?

You've said you've been to reformed churches as well as non-reformed. You've said that more than once, (not just talking to me, so you had to say it more than once.) After you said it several times, if I said "You've never been in a Reformed Church," might I assume you'd think I missed your previous statements? And then you'd tell it to me again?

What happens if I keep saying that you've never been in one? How many times can I say that before you finally get to the point of calling me a liar?

I got to say, sooner or later you should call me a liar.

And then once you did, do you really think it's within my rights to tell everyone that you're maligning me? Okay, we're Americans, so if there really are rights, I guess you're within your rights, but wouldn't me saying you are maligning me, just be another lie?

I really do get people don't understand. I no longer buy it when a typically rational person keeps telling the lie after the misinformation has been clarified by multiple people in multiple ways and multiple times.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Paul, a son who willingly became a bond servant to Yeshua that we might have a "new revelation".

and you should know better mr...

I am sensing a haughty spirit within you. You are unwilling to submit to what the bible clearly teaches.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You have to remember who we are debating. The other side of the aisle says...

--All means all w/o leaving anyone out
--World means world and leaves no one out
--Love means love
--Hate does not mean hate but love less
--Sheep does not mean sheep
--Wrath does not mean wrath only indignation...someone on another site said that

When you have a faulty hermeneutic, you can't stay in a straight line with your theology.

I am thinking this is like the Scarecrow in Wizard of Oz after the monkeys take Dorothy captive. The Scarecrow is laying there and screaming, "They took my legs and threw them over there! And they took my chest and threw it there!" And the Tin Man said what I am thinking about their theology; "Well, that's just like you all over!" Their hermeneutic is so scattered, it scatters their theology.

Allow me to add...

Alive means to be alive
Death does not mean to be dead, but separated from God

 

[stonesoffire]

I am sensing a haughty spirit within you. You are unwilling to submit to what the bible clearly teaches. [/QUOTE)


Ok, thanks.

 

[jb]

... but some of you folks take the cake....LOL

Or "biscuit" even...

(A British" thing lol)

 

[SovereignGrace]

Ok, thanks.

I am not trying to be snarky Sissy, but your attitude towards God's word is mindboggling.

Look at two passages of scripture and compare them...

In John 15(I think I mistakingly stated John 14 in an earlier post), Jesus said “I am the vine; you are the branches."[vs 5] Who was He addressing there? The Jews.

Now, let us turn to Romans 11...

If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,[vs 17] Paul is using the same analogy that the Christ did. These wild and natural and wild olive shoots both reside in the same Vine, that vine being the Christ.

Where ppl go off the rails is when they say the sheep are the Jews only. Not so fast, my friend. Jesus used the same type of analogy when He used to sheep to express them as being His ppl, not just Jews, but those elect Gentiles, too. He said He had other sheep(Gentiles), not of this sheep pen(Jews). He said He would gather them in and there would be one Shepherd and one sheep pen. Just like the analogy of the Vine. The Vine has both natural(Jews) olive shoots and wild(Gentiles) olive shoots abiding in that one Vine. The sheep pen that the Christ shepherds consists of Jewish and Gentile sheep.

“And now, behold, I know that all of you, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, will no longer see my face. Therefore, I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased[SUP]][/SUP]with His own blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;[Acts 20:28,29]

Here was Paul's farewell speech at Ephesus. This was not a Jewish-only church. So, the shepherd/flock connection, just like the Vine/olive shoots analogy go for both Jews and Gentiles.

 

[SovereignGrace]

SG

Seperate the body of Christ from the nation of Israel to see the difference.

The body of Christ is a new Genesis of man, spiritual men and women, not on earth since Adam and Eve, if they were light beings, the one new man we are called, a new creation.

Talk about a revelation. Israel couldn't accept something different either.



So you all want to be sheep? Who's really rejecting truth here?

This is where ye do err. The rapture doctrine(I call it escapism and I think others have called it that as well) did not start until around 1830 by John Darby. It can not be found anywhere other than an essay written by Morgan Edwards at Bristol College in Bristol, England in 1744. Along with this rapture doctrine came this new dispensationial doctrine that has tried to fragment the body of Christ into two separate entities, the church and the Jews. This is fallacious. The Christ is head over His body, the body of Christ, which is comprised of Jews and Gentiles alike. The stir is when someone uses the word 'church' when they mean the body of Christ. Church is translated from the Greek word 'ekklesia', which means 'a called out assembly'. Both the Jews in the OT and the body of Christ are a 'called out assembly'.


From Miletus, Paul sent to Ephesus for the elders of the church. When they arrived, he said to them: “You know how I lived the whole time I was with you, from the first day I came into the province of Asia. I served the Lord with great humility and with tears and in the midst of severe testing by the plots of my Jewish opponents. You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house. I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.“And now, compelled by the Spirit, I am going to Jerusalem, not knowing what will happen to me there. I only know that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me. However, I consider my life worth nothing to me; my only aim is to finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to the good news of God’s grace.

“Now I know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again. Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of any of you. For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.[Acts 20:17-31]

So Paul is speaking to both Jews and Greeks, calling them the church, the ekklesia, the body of Christ that He purchased with His own blood.

Now, let's go over and read...

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.[Ephesians 5:25] Paul's message to those at Ephesus in Acts 20 had both Jews and Gentiles and he called them the church, the ekklesia, the body of Christ, and said God purchased it with His own blood. And Ephesians 5:25 states the same thing.

Dispensationialist doctrine fractures, well attempts to fracture, God's word. It has distorted the truth way too many times.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Apparently, Sister Angela is not a fan of dispensationialism, either.

Here's how dispies fracture God's word. God has an elected 'woman' in the OT called the Jews. He really loves her, He loves her soooo much, that He chose her for Himself and left the other nations(women) to themselves. Then this 'woman' rejects Him. He then see this 'woman', who isn't as nice looking. She's wearing horned-rimmed glasses, has buckteeth, keeps her hair in braids, just not that good looking at all. But she likes Him, so hey, He chooses her to be His 'woman'. Then the hot looking 'woman' wants Him again, so He turns to her and gets her back for Himself. Now He has two women.


The reason why I stated it that way is because John Darby called the NT church an intercalation, a parenthesis(an afterthought) in His plan for Israel. Basically, He saw Israel would reject Him, He then saw the Gentiles would accept them, and so He made a plan to save them. This is heresy.