Right. We have no righteousness of our own (Rom. 8:20–23).
Here's what we look like to God...
Consequences of sinning
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Right. We have no righteousness of our own (Rom. 8:20–23).
Here's what we look like to God...
The question I was asking the folks who believes once saved always saved, if a believer falls into a continued spree of deliberate sin are they secured or should one still expect God to judge righteously?
But of course the counter argument is well anyone who falls away was never a true believer.
All we know is God warns us of this and he is the ultimate judge of the heart. Can we say one that falls away is damned to hell? We cant say that because they may repent and come back later in life. We cant see the heart but only the actions. If a fellow brother or sister stops coming to church and starts doing things they shall not ought to then thats an outward action that we see and warnings still stands. They are basically playing with fire and gambling their eternal soul testing God.
scripture says we are sanctified By the word of God, the truth. Grace is an important eliment of salvation, but it eaither works in unison with the truth the word of Jesus, or it doesnt have an effect on the person. a distortion is to exalt Grace above the Word of God.
john 17:17 "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."
John 17:8 "For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me" ( reference to deuteronomy 18:18)<< should make sense why Jesus was constantly saying my words are not mine, they are His who sent me, and then in no uncertain terms repeating hear them, do them, keep them, obey them.
and again
john 15:3- Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
everything Jesus said , the grace, and the truth the warnings, the teachings the things He taught His disciples is what saves and sanctifies because it is the truth of the Word of God.
and whats more is if you look there in John 15 that i quoted, you will see the importance of abiding in Him, through His word. its why He constantl;y taught and then kept explaining do these things, keep my words, my words are not mine they are Gods words, my word is spirit and Life, my word is freedom from sin, you are clean through My Words...on and on he teaches it.
Grace has to be defined within His word, when you say "faith" there are works involved in faith. Grace, is not everything, Gods Word is everything , and grace is an element of salvation nothing more, nothing Less. its the access into truth that sanctifies and cleanses.
its an illusion that Grace is opposed to all the do this, keep this, and if you dont....stuff. Because certain men who write books explain grace is God, its Just a part of His character, and when grace begins insisting that truth is ommited and before anyone explains ( grace is truth) according to Jesus, the words He spoke to His disciples, His teachings His words are truth. Grace can be accepted within the scripture, or can be plucked from the rest and omit all else. theres no part of Gods word where it will omit the other, even tha Law of moses is effective part of the word, it Just has its place in things, like grace does, Like the truth of Gods Word does. its supposed to work together. not be made to oppose and contradict the rest.
I agree but this still wasnt an example of a man who mentally denying Christ and who he was.
Peter did out of fear not because he truly felt that way but was scared and in fact that lack of faith haunted him to tears in the last conversation between him and Jesus.
Thats not a example that scripture describes as falling away
Yep orotherwise Gods words become optional once we believe. They become more guidelines than commands.
But the argument used against this was after belief God does all the work and we just become robots only wanting to do right and doing wrong only affects us worldly.
amen to that its everything to do with salvation
romans 2:5-11 "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6Who will render to every man according to his deeds
7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God.
pretty clearly what a person does when receiving Jesus matters very much whether eternal Life, or wrath and indignation.
this principle is all through Pauls writings
v16 "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
or again simpler terms,
Galatians 6:7-9 "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
theres plenty more in His teachings clearly both of these are directly related to eternal Life, or condemnation. its why paul says " there is no condemnation for those who follow the spirit" and Jesus explains as He always does " the words that i speak unto you are spirit and Life"
its why James says " we have been given birth through the word of truth" and John says "walk in the truth" and why Jesus explained " i have given them Gods words, His words are truth" everything is understood through the gospel, otherwise "spirit" isnt grasped what it means, the truth, isnt grasped what it means. Jesus is the Only Light, the rest are speaking from His words, Like He commanded them to do.
Jesus " neither do i condemn you...Now go and sin no more" Grace and truth
Pauls version "you are saved by Grace through Faith so noi one can boast".....but those who do such things as all these sinful actions will not inherit the Kingdom of God."
Grace and truth.
The mind of Christ. We are to think like Him. There's a scripture about that.Actually two...we have the mind of Christ..
If we have it...we can think like Him...who thought it not robbery...remember?
Also, every scripture that Paul wrote out of revelation from Jesus, we can declare as ours. Or we are. This is how we think His mind. We capture carnal thoughts...and think His. It's salvation..a process of it.
The mind of Christ.
what do you think the gospel is? its the mind of Jesus Christ, His knowledge laid before the world..everything paul taught is understood because Jesus spoke what He did " spirit" truth" freedom from sin" the crucifixion and resurrection" ect..ect. not a single disciple including paul spooke anything contrary to Jesus gospel, opaul makes a very clear statement about those who will not consent to Jesus words, john does also. peter does as well. the way to Life is through Jesus Christ and the gospel. The Only way.
amen bro if a person accepts the terrible gog distortion doctrine it will force ommission, ive done the research into it, its just a mimick of the serpent in the Garden. " did god really say.......naw surely you will not die...God doesnt want you to be like Him" its just a different wrapper with more words but its design whether intentional or purposelful i do not Know, but the design is contrary to The Gospel and will teach things that will blind and destroy.
now we ask how can one follow the will of Gods word perfectly? We cant so if we cant then why is obedience part of what God asks?
God only calls us to surrender in faith that surrender is us willingly allowing God to work in us and allowing the will of God to work through us and with us. The surrender in faith is saying okay I God i cant do this on my own please help me and guide me. Teach me your ways so I may walk in them.
God only calls us to surrender in faith that surrender is us willingly allowing God to work in us and allowing the will of God to work through us and with us. The surrender in faith is saying okay I God i cant do this on my own please help me and guide me. Teach me your ways so I may walk in them.
Dear All, I am a new person here so please forgive me if my observation of this thread is out of line.
Isn't the title of the thread here, Consequences of Sinning? Reading a lot of the posts here it seems like people are getting off track according to the OP's thread topic. Which BTW I think is a great topic to talk about. It seems as though some are trying to separate the Law from the Gospel in relation to sin and salvation but can we really do this?
Friends you cannot know Jesus or what sin is without the Law of God;
“Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” (1John 3:4)
"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." (Rom 7:7)
"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." (Gal 3:24)
It is the Law of God that shows us that we are sinners and our need of salvation from sin
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” (Rom 3:23)
“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” (1Tim 1:15)
Friends the Law of God is part of the Gospel and the consequences of sinning is very simple;
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom 6:23)
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." (1John 2:1)
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1John 1:9)
So some key things to consider if you believe in leaving the Law of God out of the Gospel;
1. If we have no Law then we have no knowledge of sin
2. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a Saviour
3. If we have no need of a Saviour we have no salvation
4. If we have no salvation we are lost
“For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.” (Rom 2:12)
Isn't the title of the thread here, Consequences of Sinning? Reading a lot of the posts here it seems like people are getting off track according to the OP's thread topic. Which BTW I think is a great topic to talk about. It seems as though some are trying to separate the Law from the Gospel in relation to sin and salvation but can we really do this?
Friends you cannot know Jesus or what sin is without the Law of God;
“Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” (1John 3:4)
"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." (Rom 7:7)
"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." (Gal 3:24)
It is the Law of God that shows us that we are sinners and our need of salvation from sin
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” (Rom 3:23)
“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” (1Tim 1:15)
Friends the Law of God is part of the Gospel and the consequences of sinning is very simple;
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom 6:23)
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." (1John 2:1)
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1John 1:9)
So some key things to consider if you believe in leaving the Law of God out of the Gospel;
1. If we have no Law then we have no knowledge of sin
2. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a Saviour
3. If we have no need of a Saviour we have no salvation
4. If we have no salvation we are lost
“For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.” (Rom 2:12)
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Of course God is going to judge righteous judgment.Roughsoul1991 said:
And, yes, all are going to stand before God and give an account.
Do I want to stand before Him and account for any wrongdoing? No. But I will and I am not afraid to stand before Him because I read His Word, I commune with Him frequently, and I know Him. And He knows me. He knows I am but dust; He knows my utter frailty and weakness. And, when I do face God, my Advocate will be there with me to counter any accusation from my adversary who wants nothing but to consign me to hell with him.
And I trust my Advocate and I trust my Judge to render the proper verdict, even though my life on this earth was imperfect as I sojourned in this body which seeks nothing but self-satisfaction.
Tell that to Chris1975, who believes there is no repentance for those who belong to our Lord Jesus Christ if/when they stray from the fold.Roughsoul1991 said:
We can pray for our brothers and sisters who find themselves in this situation. God will lose none who are truly His.Roughsoul1991 said:
P.S. All I ask is that when you post things like
Perhaps some sort of disclaimer could be included.Roughsoul1991 said:
Example: "No one promotes it but OSAS believers [none on CC(or this thread, or this board) that I know of] either say believers no longer sin ..."
Because when people post things like that, I go back through a thread to see who is saying whatever is claimed to have been said. And in this thread (as in others on the same topic), I have found that it is the ones who believe salvation may be lost who are the ones saying that. And I find numerous replies wherein it is stated that sin is not okay, in any way, shape, or form, from those who believe that God secures those who are His. All to no avail because those who believe salvation can be lost continue their false claims.
Thanks in advance,
rdbd
amen Gods work is always accomplished in and through His WORD in us. thus we surrender and believe because of what we have heard and the result.....eternal Life
John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
john 3: 31-36 "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. ( john 6:63)
35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
john 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
the covenant Law of God
Exodus 25:16 "And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
exodus 31:18 "And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. ( the ten commandments)
the Law of moses.
deuteronomy 31:26 "Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.
colossians 2:14 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"
the Law of the spirit of Life
john 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
romans 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
the Law of Moses
leviticus 20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
The Law of Christ
john 8:5 -11"Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?....So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. ......9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
the law of moses
deuteronomy 19:21 "Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
the Law of Christ
Matthew 5:7 "Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Luke 6:37-38 "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
The Law of sin
romans 7;23 "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members
Jesus words
john 8:31-35 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Amen brother its clear as day to me but I guess some are just blinded to it. Honestly when I joined Christian chat and learned there was actually differing views on what eternal security actually means. I thought I was crazy reading these scriptures seeing in my mind what was completely obvious but I soon learned some would ignore them or try to debate their interpretation to fit a doctrine they believe. And thats when I was introduced into human doctrines. I knew commentary existed but didnt know these doctrines is what many congregations go off of. Before I joined I only knew scripture and what was enlightened to me. But boy I learned of all sorts of doctrines and interpretations.
It puzzled me and my soul. I couldn't sleep but for months studying everything everyone had said to get to the truth. God filled me with a fire that annoyed me into searching for truth. The question was does what God enlightened me to have truth or does the others who debate differently.
I couldn't stop until I had the answers i seeked. And as time went on I only became stronger in my belief.
I originally saw what I thought I saw. But its amazing at how human doctrines can corrupt what the Bible actually says. Not to say others beliefs didnt also teach me some truth but nothing so far has convinced me otherwise to say osas is true
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
Good thing it also states....Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world.....obviously In Christ we can overcome many things, but we will not be 100% sinless until...
a. We die
b. WE get our glorified body
AND NO one I know embraces or espouses a lifestyle of sin....just honesty with the scriptures that deal with sin in a believer's life........! Sinless perfectionism is false and the only sin that leaves a man lost is the failure to acknowledge JESUS by faith!
Of course God is going to judge righteous judgment.
And, yes, all are going to stand before God and give an account.
Do I want to stand before Him and account for any wrongdoing? No. But I will and I am not afraid to stand before Him because I read His Word, I commune with Him frequently, and I know Him. And He knows me. He knows I am but dust; He knows my utter frailty and weakness. And, when I do face God, my Advocate will be there with me to counter any accusation from my adversary who wants nothing but to consign me to hell with him.
And I trust my Advocate and I trust my Judge to render the proper verdict, even though my life on this earth was imperfect as I sojourned in this body which seeks nothing but self-satisfaction.
Tell that to Chris1975, who believes there is no repentance for those who belong to our Lord Jesus Christ if/when they stray from the fold.
We can pray for our brothers and sisters who find themselves in this situation. God will lose none who are truly His.
P.S. All I ask is that when you post things like
Perhaps some sort of disclaimer could be included.
Example: "No one promotes it but OSAS believers [none on CC(or this thread, or this board) that I know of] either say believers no longer sin ..."
Because when people post things like that, I go back through a thread to see who is saying whatever is claimed to have been said. And in this thread (as in others on the same topic), I have found that it is the ones who believe salvation may be lost who are the ones saying that. And I find numerous replies wherein it is stated that sin is not okay, in any way, shape, or form, from those who believe that God secures those who are His. All to no avail because those who believe salvation can be lost continue their false claims.
Thanks in advance,
rdbd
You see why that can be painting a label because no one will say sin is okay in a believer but what are they truly saying when continued known sin in a believer only affects them worldly.
To me I hear well if you fall back into lusts of the world it only affects you as in Stds, liver issues, cancer, etc. But not your soul because once you believe the elect never can fall away and or want to sin. Some wont say elect but true believers but come on thats what they are hinting at.
This proves you
a. Have no idea
b. Cannot read
c. You called me on nothing
d. Your still in the grouping of 7 in Proverbs 6.....one sin after another......
How many times have I stated....saved, justified, sanctified positionally in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit
Keep twisting....the one verse in context hammered your deception concerning the 1st thing you denied and stated....I see we have another cake taker here who denies something, gets called on it and misdirects to make out like he is right....thats ok....All who can read and be honest can see your deceptive ways....reminds me of another........still making the list in Proverbs 6......
No the Bible tell's you the old man died with Christ and the new man was risen into newness of life. If you suggest there is a war of 2 natures going on inside of you
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