Grace 101

dcontroversal · Jun 7, 2017

Are you that dense that you cannot grasp sarcasm....and not even going to address your sinless perfectionist view.....and your first line reeks of complete ignorance....if not so tragic and false it would almost make the list of hilarious....for sure the top 10
statements of error.....

cake takers and fluff balls......

Meggido · Jun 7, 2017

dcontroversal said:

LOL, you tried painting me that way yesterday and I told you I still sin and it stumped you and you even told me I said the truth?

Why are you trying to paint me that way again? it seems to em you use it to intentionally demean someone so your point is made.

I am not a sinner, I do still sin...and Paul called everyone saints, if that bothers you, sounds like you have unresolved issues with the Lord.

dcontroversal · Jun 7, 2017

Meggido said:

You flip flop more than a perch on a dock......

a. I have no problem with being identified as a SAINT in Christ
b. You say I deny JESUS by admitting I sin, just as you did...so...do you deny JESUS by admitting you sin?
c. NO one will be without SIN completely until they die or get a glorified body
d. My first line was sarcasm directed at ALL you guys who imply you hardly sin as opposed to us who believe grace and then go on to accuse us of living in sin or we don't do anything after salvation
d. If you believe you can lose salvation you must DO SOMETHING to KEEP IT or MAINTAIN IT<---works based salvation

anything else.....?

Meggido · Jun 7, 2017

dcontroversal said:

NO I said you deny Jesus by calling yourself a sinner, when the Bible teaches you are no longer a slave to sin, but to righteousness...

A sinner is the old man, the new man is a saint, that will sin, but no longer considered a sinner. You think sinner is a noun before and even after conversion, When it is an adjective before conversion.

You self identified yourself in another post as a sinner, which is it? you cannot be both.

reneweddaybyday · Jun 7, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Just because the unbeliever does not believe does not mean the unbeliever is not one "who is to believe". God's desire is that all would believe.

Chris1975 said:

Seriously? You see nothing wrong with replacing words in Scripture? smh

Chris1975 said:

smh

reneweddaybyday · Jun 7, 2017

Zmouth said:

Actually, the word "by" in Romans 8:24 was supplied by the translators. Here is verse 24 from the NIV (in context with what is written in the verses just before it):

NIV – Romans 8:

18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.

19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.

20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope

21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have?

25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

In hope of future glorification we were saved through faith.

dcontroversal · Jun 7, 2017

Meggido said:

MAN you must not read......serious......here one more time....read s l o w l y if you cannot grasp what is said....you should take time and read before you assume or state y position with all the facts......is that too difficult for you.......just because I do not write a book to answer every posts does not mean that my position can be fully known by one who has no clue about what I believe......

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

You flip flop more than a perch on a dock......

a. I have no problem with being identified as a SAINT in Christ
b. You say I deny JESUS by admitting I sin, just as you did...so...do you deny JESUS by admitting you sin?
c. NO one will be without SIN completely until they die or get a glorified body
d. My first line was sarcasm directed at ALL you guys who imply you hardly sin as opposed to us who believe grace and then go on to accuse us of living in sin or we don't do anything after salvation
d. If you believe you can lose salvation you must DO SOMETHING to KEEP IT or MAINTAIN IT<---works based salvation

anything else.....?

and just posted this in another thread.....

For sure our daily sanctification in our lives is an ongoing process of faith, maturity and growth and I fully agree we can curb sin, overcome particular sin and be more righteous in our walk as we grow, mature and surrender to his will....HOWEVER....we will not be entirely SINLESS until death and or a glorified body....even the great men and women of faith in the bible had moments of failure and sin...some recorded and some not....DANIEL, David, Peter, Noah, Moses, Abraham etc. all being examples of righteous men who walked after GOD yet had to confess sin......for those who say they were not saved...don't even bother as such foolishness will not be addressed!

followjesus · Jun 7, 2017

Good stuff as usaul bro God bless.

Just one small addition, Noah saved By Grace and through Faith......

Gebesis 6:8 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD"

genesis 6:13-14 "And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. 14Make thee an ark of gopher wood;.....( God gives noah all the life saving instructions) and v22 "Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

and what does scripture say of the righteousness of faith concerning Noah?

Hebrews 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Noah was saved By Gods grace, being warned of the flood and was saved through faith, Obeying Gods word. faith without works is dead.

LoveGodForever · Jun 7, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Great topic Chris!

How wonderful is our God?

"For God commended his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Rom 5:8).

We were talking in another topic somewhere that many of the stories in Matthew, Mark Luke and John focus on Jesus as the great Physician, healing the sick, the lame, the deaf, the cripples the blind, the lepers and he raised the dead.

"All of us have the sickness of sin and fall short of the glory of God." (Rom 3:23) and this sickness is terminal (the wages of sin is death, Rom 6:23)

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins." (Eph 2:1)

Just as the sick could not heal themselves they saw their need of healing (saving) God revealed Jesus to them as their only hope. They were seeking Jesus with all their heart that he may heal them (the Word of God, John 1:1-5) Just as the sick could not heal themselves, no more can we save ourselves from our sins.

"Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one." (Job 14:4)
"Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil." (Jer 13:23)

But as the sick, the lame the deaf, the cripples, (representing sinners) searched out for Jesus the promise was given by God.......

"Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. (Isa 55:6-7)

"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." (Jer 29:13)

He healed them of their sickness and said to them ... Go thy faith hath made thee whole.
It was their faith in God's Word that made them whole. The same as it is today. This is why Paul says...

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." (1Tim 1:15)

We need to have our eyes opened to see and our ears opened to hear our need of Jesus and his salvation from our sins and believe or have faith in God's Word before we see God's power in our lives......

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." (Rom 1:16-17)

"And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong." (2Cor 12:9-10)

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:12-14)

"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2Pet 1:3-4)

May God bless you all as you have faith in God's Word. It is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes!Amen

Chris1975 · Jun 7, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:12-14)

"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2Pet 1:3-4)

I particularly liked these last two scriptural quotes LoveGodForever

LoveGodForever · Jun 7, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Absolutely Chris! It is the work of God in us as we have faith in God's wonderful promises (2Pet 1:3-4)

God bless you!

UnderGrace · Jun 7, 2017

Your line of reasoning is distorted

Grace is not salvation, there was grace before the new covenant in the old testament.

Salvation is the gift imparted to us because of our personal belief in what Jesus has accomplished. The Gift is salvation because we have been declared Justified by the work of Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:23--the gift of God is eternal life

Show me a scripture where God takes the Gift (eternal life) back making it uneternal?

Zmouth · Jun 7, 2017

If the promise of eternal life was eternal it would have always been, is, and would always be since it is eternal.

graceNpeace · Jun 8, 2017

Zmouth said:

4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[a]2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[b]4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. Rom 4:1-4

and:
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[c] 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”[d] 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Gal 3:5-9

If Paul in Gal 3:9 can say:
9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

then it is clear that Abraham is saved, having been justified, in the same way as we were:
[FONT=&quot]8 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Eph 2:8-9

Abraham believed, by faith, in God given the revelation that He had.
We are also asked to believe, by faith, in God, given the revelation that we have - much greater now since we have the cross, and the whole Bible!

Bottom line - the grace of God has been extended to humanity throughout![/FONT]

Johnny_B · Jun 8, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Your story was a good one, faith or the water is what gets you saved. The grace was that you were able to make it through the desert without dying. Grace is what make us alive in Christ, faith is what keeps you until the inheritance.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Verse 4-7 As you in (1), (2) and (3) notice where "by grace you are saved" it is between us being born again and our inheritance or how the Lord sees us seating in heavenly places, which one day we will receiver our inheritance and receive our heavenly bodies. We are saved by grace or made alive by grace and by that grace the Father sees us in heavenly places. The reason --by grace you have been saved-- is because it is to bring more attention to that. The attention is on grace as our salvation, verses 8-10 are going to further explain how grace saves us, grace is the gift it's is what made us alive, that's why Paul mentions it in verse 5 and again here in verse 8, if faith was the gift he would of said --by faith you have been saved-- our faith as you said it is in Christ and that is what is our continuous salvation or our sanctification out walk with Him. That is our faith, which is something that we do and it cleanly says "And this is not of yourself" and faith is of yourselves, what is not of ourselves, grace it is the gift of God, and that gift is not by anything we do, not even our faith because, "not a result of works", why, "so that no one may boast.

By God's grace we are made alive and He sees us seated in heavenly places, how, by grace you are saved, the attention is to grace and as mentioned verse 8 give a fuller understanding of that grace. All the commas, colons, semi-colons and dashes are there for a reason. There is an article about them at the site below. Your story is a good one for grace too, with one change, as you were walking through the desert you knew that the water tank was there, as you said the water tank is Jesus. Knowing that the tank was there caused you to walk through that desert and by grace you stated alive. Then you placed your faith in that tank when you drank out of it and not only did you need to drink from that tank but you'll need water for the rest of your life. Your faith is the evidence that we are saved and that we stay saved.

I John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

The proof that you are part of the body is that you stay in the faith if you leave you were never part of the faith. Once we are justified before God, we are justified forever before Him, if we were to be fund guilt again it would be double jeopardy. Grace our initial salvation through faith our continual salvation.

http://writingcenter.unc.edu/handouts/semi-colons-colons-and-dashes/

OneFaith · Jun 8, 2017

Chris1975 said:

How are we saved?

Ephesians 2v8-10
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not of works, lest anyone should boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

- what saves us? Grace
- who is the source of Grace? God
- how is Grace received? By Faith
- who is to believe? The Believer
- Without Faith its impossible to please God Heb 11v6. God cannot judge Himself for He is perfect. Therefore we are to have a continued faith.
- Can a believers works alone save them? No. We are saved by Grace (God) through Faith (Believing in Him)
- John 3v16 [SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son <Grace>, that whoever believes in Him <Faith> should not perish but have everlasting life.
- verse 10: the purpose of God's saving grace was for good works which He has for us to complete <He gives us the mission. He is the CEO of our lives>. And it is up to the believer to respond in Faith by walking out these works. <thats the part that we DO>
- Matthew 7v24; James 1v22 - be not merely hearers of the word, but DOERS of the Word.
- works is never divorced from faith.
- verse 10 starts with "For" which links it inseparably from verse 9. In other words its a foregoing conclusion as a result of the previous verse.
- if someone falls from the Faith (and no longer believes), he can no longer be saved by Grace. Because Grace is only available to them who believe in the Son.

Spirit of Grace

Zechariah 12v10
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication

The Holy Spirit is GRACE !!!

Lets look at Ephesians 2.8 again with this insight.

Ephesians 2v8-10
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by the Holy Spirit you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; HE is the gift of God,
How do you receive the Holy Spirit?

Acts 2v38
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And one of the primary roles of the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer is to TEACH.

John 14v26
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name <Gift>, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

1 John 2
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will[SUP][e][/SUP] abide in Him.

And what is it that the Holy Spirit (Grace) teaches us?

Titus 2v11-14

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, [SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

That is what Grace is.

Lets look at the ways we can glean the most insight from this....

Romans 8
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Romans 8 (substituted for insight)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by GRACE you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are TAUGHT by GRACE, these are sons of God.

Faith saves- true
Confessing saves- true
Repenting saves- true
Baptism saves- true
Obeying saves- true, because the obedient are the group of people God chooses to give grace to.

Many things save, but not one of them saves alone- you must have all. Therefore, choosing just one to prove by scripture is irrelevant.

Zmouth · Jun 8, 2017

graceNpeace said:

11:8-13

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Johnny_B · Jun 8, 2017

We believe or have faith through grace Acts 18:27.

graceNpeace · Jun 8, 2017

Zmouth said:

Completely get the implication, however if you are correct how can Paul write this in Galatians:
6just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[c]7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.Gal 3: 3:6-7

Paul explains how Abraham was justified by faith - and in Romans devotes plenty of ink to explaining how we are likewise justified by faith. There would be no logic in then saying that "those who are of faith", in other words current believers, "are sons of Abraham" unless we will see believing Abraham in heaven as fellow believers!

And, how could Jesus Himself say this:

31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?[a] God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching. Matt 22:31-33

if Abraham was not saved just as we are!

The context of the verse you quote in Hebrews:

[FONT=&quot]13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them,[c] embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them. Heb 11:13-16

This is the summary: Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them. Heb 11:16b

I don't think the conclusion we draw here is that these individuals are dead in their sins.[/FONT]

Katy-follower · Jun 8, 2017

Chris1975 said:

reneweddaybyday said:

I was honestly thinking the same thing. My jaw dropped. Sorry Chris, but your scripture twisting in various threads has been worrying enough, but now you've taken it way too far. You're crossing into dangerous territory... deleting words from the scriptures and inserting your own! We're not to add to or subtract from the word of God! That's a serious thing!

And again you don't read the entire chapter, you're just taking random verses and twisting them to suit yourself. Very worrying. We've already been over Romans in more than one thread but you reject what we share. It's clear you've already made up your mind and that anything we share will just fall on deaf ears.

Defending the truth....

Ephesians 2:4-10:

"But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them"

Romans 3:21-26:

"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus"

Romans 11:5-6: ".............Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work"

Ephesians 1:3-14:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory"

The Holy Spirit is a deposit, a guarantee. This is why He says the "Holy Spirit of promise". It's our deposit guaranteeing our future inheritance. The Holy Spirit is given to us to confirm to us that we belong to God. We are sealed and confirmed until the day of redemption.

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