When harsh chastising turns a child against God.

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toinena

Guest
#1
#1
Today I talked to a man. We have spoken about faith earlier, and he knows how important Jesus is in my life. Today he told about his childhood. His father was a Sunday school teacher, and he strongly believed in chastising his children.

Proverbs 13:24English Standard Version (ESV)

24 Whoever spares the rod hates his son,
but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.[a]

He told about how his father's rage could suddenly be triggered by apparently no reason. He told about spanking, being dragged down to the cellar. Being locked down in the dark cellar. He told about his father reciting the Bible when being spanked. How his father wept when using the belt on him.

I asked him if he could see God as his loving Heavenly Father, and he just looked at me. No. He was not able to do that. He believed in the good forces in the Universe, but he couldn't see a loving God. I asked him if he could forgive his father. No. It was impossible.

My questions to you guys are: How do you approach someone that has been abused with religion, terror and violence?
How do you chastise your child justly and lovingly so that the child learns to both love and fear God?



 
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imfinallyfree

Banned
#2
Dec 17, 2013
822
7
0
#2
Many call it blasphemy but i dont think that God wants us to fear Him.

I think that He wants us to understand that He does what He does in our best interest and the advice that He gives is just.

I think that my father did a pretty good job of teaching me and my brother with real world examples.

Like he would point out junkies and prostitutes and explain why they do what they do and morality of the situation also the consequences.

In my opinion using only scripture without real world models that the child can actually see for themselves isnt going to be effective.

And violence is certainly not the way to teach anything,in order for someone to really absorb what you are trying to teach they have to respect you.

Just like knowledge respect is earned with patience and understanding.

I dont even have kids so maybe i dont even know what im talking about.
 
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toinena

Guest
#3
#3
imfinallyfree said:
Many call it blasphemy but i dont think that God wants us to fear Him.

I think that He wants us to understand that He does what He does in our best interest and the advice that He gives is just.

I think that my father did a pretty good job of teaching me and my brother with real world examples.

Like he would point out junkies and prostitutes and explain why they do what they do and morality of the situation also the consequences.

In my opinion using only scripture without real world models that the child can actually see for themselves isnt going to be effective.

And violence is certainly not the way to teach anything,in order for someone to really absorb what you are trying to teach they have to respect you.

Just like knowledge respect is earned with patience and understanding.

I dont even have kids so maybe i dont even know what im talking about.
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I am not an expert on raising a child. Far from it. I have never used violence against my son. My ex-husband did it once or twice in rage, but he was more violent against me. I am not sure if I could ever beat anybody.

And you are totally right. LOVE should be the foundation when you raise a child. And LOVE should be the theme when you teach your child about Jesus. Fear will come with maturity, admitting you are a sinner and walking in faith.

I was very upset when I wrote this entry. This grown man turned into that wounded child when talking about his experiences. And I just wanted him to experience the love I have found in my heavenly father through believing in Jesus. And to not be able to share that, was very frustrating. Because his traumatic experience totally blocked for any loving Father. It broke my heart, and I just pray he will experience that one day and be healed.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#4
#4
toinena said:
My questions to you guys are: How do you approach someone that has been abused with religion, terror and violence?
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I married him.

Granted, he was already a believer, but that's where I went. I have full confidence God can save even people who weren't brought up in a great environment.

Strange thing about people who grew up in abusive homes. They have some kind of mark no one can see, except others who were targeted in the same abusive ways. And because of that, they connect quickly with others who were targeted. In church, we kept meeting more and more adults who were abused horribly as children, but God saved. Some of the nicest people God remakes.

As for how to chastise kids? Fortunately and unfortunately, we never had kids, so I can't really answer that with experience. Best I can do is what anyone who never has had kids can do -- let the world know that we alone would have been the perfect parents. (Which always makes real parents spit out their drink when they hear that. lol)

 
M

Miri

Guest
#5
#5
Godly discipline and abuse are poles apart.
For a start discipline should be just, short followed by forgiveness and
encouragement. It should be constructive, it should not be carried out
in temper. It should be about the child not the parents moods.
It should always be tempered with real genuine love.
Jesus came into the world to save us, not destroy us.


The following link shows how not to do it and how anger gets in the way of
loving discipline big time. People use the word chastise when really they use
it as an excuse for abuse. Maybe the person you met needs to understand that what
his father did was wrong in every sense and his father was not displaying the
fruits of the spirit, nor displaying fatherly love or the love of the father.
He might have been a Sunday schooled teacher but that doesn't mean he knew God.


Man with unimaginable rage murdered girlfriend's son with 100 injuries | Metro News
 
H

healingsoul

Guest
#6
#6
I am so sorry for this man and how his father twisted God’s Word into abuse. Is his father still teaching Sunday School?

What is this man’s view of God and religion since it was presented in such a hypocritical fashion.

I would treat abuse that someone shared similar even if it was abused with religion. The only thing different in his case is that his father tarnished the image of God and his son (the man you met) needs to know that God is nothing like his father and that the Bible does not in any way condone this behavior. God understands that we will be angry but we are told by God to ‘be angry but do not sin.’ What his father did to him was clearly sinful wrath that God says it would be better for his father to have a milestone hung on his neck and for him to be tossed into water than for him to treat his son this way.

God is love. God is not a father of violent abuse. The fear of God is an awe-inspired fear, an overwhelming sense of being in the presence of the most wonderful person in the universe, not a terrorizing fear.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#7
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#7
toinena said:
Today I talked to a man. We have spoken about faith earlier, and he knows how important Jesus is in my life. Today he told about his childhood. His father was a Sunday school teacher, and he strongly believed in chastising his children.

Proverbs 13:24English Standard Version (ESV)

[FONT=&][FONT=&]24 Whoever spares the rod hates his son,
but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.[a]

He told about how his father's rage could suddenly be triggered by apparently no reason. He told about spanking, being dragged down to the cellar. Being locked down in the dark cellar. He told about his father reciting the Bible when being spanked. How his father wept when using the belt on him.

I asked him if he could see God as his loving Heavenly Father, and he just looked at me. No. He was not able to do that. He believed in the good forces in the Universe, but he couldn't see a loving God. I asked him if he could forgive his father. No. It was impossible.

My questions to you guys are: How do you approach someone that has been abused with religion, terror and violence?
How do you chastise your child justly and lovingly so that the child learns to both love and fear God?


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This is one of the main reasons I so easily incur the ire and vindictiveness of several "Traditionalists" on here.

I try hard to do one particular thing Jesus did, and that is to show God as the honest Father He came to reveal to us. It is an earnest desire most of us have to believe God is really like us.......... when we need to learn to understand that WE should, instead, be trying to be the kind of father God actually is.

Some of you will grasp this immediately, and then some others of you will go to your graves fully believing this is blasphemy. I can't do much about that. All I can hope to do is to introduce the Father we WISH we could have had on Earth.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#8
#8
I came from an abusive home with an abusive father. He was not the pattern of God that fathers are meant to be. Fortunately, my grandfather WAS that pattern of God for us. The verse that helps me a lot is about God being the Father to the fatherless. He said he will be our Father.

Psalm 27:10 "When my father and my mother forsake me, then the Lord will take me up."

If the gentleman knows that God specifically forbids fathers to behave in such a manner to their children, he may understand that what his father did is not sanctioned by God.

Ephesians 6:4 "And ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord."

I am not sure what you could say to him to convince him that God is not like his father, it is a tough situation. I have been thinking a lot about "spare the rod, spoil the child". I honestly do not think the rod is meant to beat a child. A shepherd would not beat his sheep. The rod is used to direct to the right path, not to beat.
 
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toinena

Guest
#9
#9
healingsoul said:
I am so sorry for this man and how his father twisted God’s Word into abuse. Is his father still teaching Sunday School?

What is this man’s view of God and religion since it was presented in such a hypocritical fashion.

I would treat abuse that someone shared similar even if it was abused with religion. The only thing different in his case is that his father tarnished the image of God and his son (the man you met) needs to know that God is nothing like his father and that the Bible does not in any way condone this behavior. God understands that we will be angry but we are told by God to ‘be angry but do not sin.’ What his father did to him was clearly sinful wrath that God says it would be better for his father to have a milestone hung on his neck and for him to be tossed into water than for him to treat his son this way.

God is love. God is not a father of violent abuse. The fear of God is an awe-inspired fear, an overwhelming sense of being in the presence of the most wonderful person in the universe, not a terrorizing fear.
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His father passed away some years ago. Neither he or his brother went to the funeral.

I can only pray until next time we meet.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#10
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,976
113
#10
Christ's discipline should always be used with temperance and Love for the
benefit of the child, always starting at a vey young age, in order to teach them
the boundaries of what is acceptable for growth and maturing in the Godly ways
of Jesus Christ...
 
M

mcubed

Senior Member
#11
Dec 20, 2013
1,449
218
63
#11
This has to be one of the most miss interpreted Scripture ever! A rod is a measuring stick, additionally Isiah calls the Messiah the rod of Jessie. We know what G-d’s standard of righteousness is from His laws, the measuring stick. We know only Y-shua perfectly measures up. However, we can fall shorter and shorter by Messiah. If we spare Him, don’t teach Him… Messiah Y-shua… we do HATE OUR CHILDREN. Y-shua is the ROD of JESSIE!!!!!!
 
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I

imfinallyfree

Banned
#12
Dec 17, 2013
822
7
0
#12
Its very sad that a sunday school teacher would do that to their own child,where im from there is a certain church that would beat the children when they spoke their native language.

This certain church took the place over so now the majority of the indiginous population dont even know their own language.

Its acts such as these comitted by organized religion that turn people against Gods word.

These are works done by satan for his ultimate plan of chaos.
 
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joefizz

Guest
#13
#13
toinena said:
Today I talked to a man. We have spoken about faith earlier, and he knows how important Jesus is in my life. Today he told about his childhood. His father was a Sunday school teacher, and he strongly believed in chastising his children.

Proverbs 13:24English Standard Version (ESV)

24 Whoever spares the rod hates his son,
but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.[a]

He told about how his father's rage could suddenly be triggered by apparently no reason. He told about spanking, being dragged down to the cellar. Being locked down in the dark cellar. He told about his father reciting the Bible when being spanked. How his father wept when using the belt on him.

I asked him if he could see God as his loving Heavenly Father, and he just looked at me. No. He was not able to do that. He believed in the good forces in the Universe, but he couldn't see a loving God. I asked him if he could forgive his father. No. It was impossible.

My questions to you guys are: How do you approach someone that has been abused with religion, terror and violence?
How do you chastise your child justly and lovingly so that the child learns to both love and fear God?



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tell him that clearly this so called father of his was nothing but a hypocrite,and for him to not follow in his footsteps nor dwell on it,for any whooping of a child for no more than anger is child abuse and that as a sunday school teacher he knew better and should punish himself by confessing his foolish actions not only to God but his son most of all because this smart alec man not father has clearly overlooked what jesus said concerning children"if any offend these it were better that a mill stone be cast about their neck and thrown into the sea",people need to start learning that doing wrong by a child is punishable by God,and that children aren't always the one's who need to learn between right and wrong,adults need to as well,before attempting to punish a child much less teach,for if you don't know right from wrong of a certainty especially by way of the bible, then you are ignorant and are not to teach nor punish any child,for you are blind leading the blind into a pit and like wise will fall into the same pit together,hope this helps though, naturally pray for the holy spirit to guide you to what to say for alone you may err or offend but with the holy spirit helping you all will be fine!
 
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healingsoul

Guest
#14
#14
I can understand why he didn’t go to the funeral. Yes, pray until the next time you meet and try to help him see that Father God is not at all like his own father. Help him to see the love of God.

When do you see him? Do you run into him while out? Do you see him at work? What are the odds that you will see him again?

toinena said:
His father passed away some years ago. Neither he or his brother went to the funeral.

I can only pray until next time we meet.
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TemporaryCircumstances

Guest
#15
#15
Here comes mother Natania!
Each and every one of my siblings has been abused except for my baby brother and sister.
Sometimes you can't approach them and they have to find that it's okay to step outside without your fists up, and that not everyone will hurt you.
I've had to report abuse done to my siblings to DHS and my brother got mad at ME because he said he deserved what had happened to him.
Abuse is an ugly thing, especially when it's done by the person who is supposed to protect, love, and cherish you. I've seen and experienced it.

For me it just took someone who wouldn't give up on me....
I went to camp and a staff member saw past my smiles and laughs and would NOT leave me alone until I talked to someone, or she knew I was safe. Later that summer I ended up crying on her lap with her holding me and telling me I was going to be okay and I was safe there.
That moment changed my life. She has come back to visit me every year that she has known me, even if it meant she had to buy a plane ticket to see me.
She is my sister and lifeline now.


It is different for each child how you approach them. And for some, the damage that has been done is far to great for you to ever fix and you need to get them into someone who can help.
 
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JoDel

Guest
#16
#16
toinena said:
I was very upset when I wrote this entry. This grown man turned into that wounded child when talking about his experiences. And I just wanted him to experience the love I have found in my heavenly father through believing in Jesus. And to not be able to share that, was very frustrating. Because his traumatic experience totally blocked for any loving Father. It broke my heart, and I just pray he will experience that one day and be healed.
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Broken, wounded "adult" children are, in my experience, more prevalent than what we acknowledge. I am/was one of them. ~ It was difficult to view God as "father" in a positive way because of the deep "impression" my own left on my "child's" heart. ~ God saw that within me and graciously, gently, lovingly and convincingly showed me the difference. ~ However, before I could see and accept it, God required I forgive my dad first. ~ I'd be lying if I said I did that without asking God, incredulously, "You WANT ME TO DO WHAT"?!~ He let me sit on that until my anger at what I felt was "unjust and impossible" subsided. ~ I then came into the beautiful truth that I could not SEE God as He wanted me to, through the smokescreen of un-forgiveness. ~ He helped me with the "forgiving" part once my heart was willing... and a wonderfully unexpected thing happened... not only did my love and perception and understanding of God as my "Father" become crystal clear without question, but with awe... but I found myself falling "in love" with my dad. My only regret is that my dad had been dead for a few years and I couldn't share that with him.~ I was 40 years old when it finally took place. So, don't lose hope for this man, Toinena... God finds us where we are... and the miraculous happens! :eek:
 
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TemporaryCircumstances

Guest
#17
#17
(Thank you to whoever gave the rep!)
 
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Tinuviel

Guest
#18
#18
Children need boundaries. They will actually behave better when they have them! I remember having boundaries, and being punished when I crossed them. To randomly punish a child when they do something to make you angry is totally wrong.
 
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TemporaryCircumstances

Guest
#19
#19
Tinuviel said:
Children need boundaries. They will actually behave better when they have them! I remember having boundaries, and being punished when I crossed them. To randomly punish a child when they do something to make you angry is totally wrong.
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Yes they need boundaries.... but there are do's and dont's when it comes to crossing them.
You don't drag a child down to a cellar when they break a boundary
 
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Tinuviel

Guest
#20
#20
TemporaryCircumstances said:
Yes they need boundaries.... but there are do's and dont's when it comes to crossing them.
You don't drag a child down to a cellar when they break a boundary
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My point exactly! I think the only times I was spanked was when I was directly disobedient. But that was as far as it ever went, and it was always told WHY it was important to obey and WHY it was we were getting punished. We were also told before what punishment we could expect if we were disobedient. I was never surprised when I got punished or with what punishment I got.
 
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