The finished work of the cross ?

[Roughsoul1991]

roughsoul what you said is true........... if you truly believe something you act accordingly therefore obedience comes from faith and believing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To me they come together as one package. One without the other, both are dead. The bottom line disagreement is if obedience is the results of a maturimg faith. Whos will is it to act in obedience.

Is it mans will to hear and choose to do what is heard or does God control everything. Thats my point and the bottom line that I believe everyone is trying to get to.

To me all these debates in the core are about free will and faith.

To me I never feel forced and feel the pull of the flesh and the pull of the Spirit. Of course the more I abide and rely on God the pull of the flesh gets weaker but non the less the pull is always there.
The choice akways there. If not all believers would be perfect.

 

[followjesus]

To me they come together as one package. One without the other, both are dead. The bottom line disagreement is if obedience is the results of a maturimg faith. Whos will is it to act in obedience.

Is it mans will to hear and choose to do what is heard or does God control everything. Thats my point and the bottom line that I believe everyone is trying to get to.

To me all these debates in the core are about free will and faith.

To me I never feel forced and feel the pull of the flesh and the pull of the Spirit. Of course the more I abide and rely on God the pull of the flesh gets weaker but non the less the pull is always there.
The choice akways there. If not all believers would be perfect.

even Jesus felt that pull....and overcame it to make a way home

 

[miknik5]

True flesh
True spirit

 

[sevenseas]

Jesus is the Lamb of God, the final, perfect and ONLY acceptable sacrifice to make atonement for the sin of the world. This is ALL in the Bible.


so is this

romans 12:1-2 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

in other words

2 corinthians 5:14-15 "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

one does not dismiss or cancel the other

if it did, the Bible would tear itself apart

we are not sacrifices other than living sacrifices

do you know what that is?

you cannot even begin to imagine what the sacrifice of Christ even entails if you entertain the smallest iota of belief you can add to it

 

[Roughsoul1991]

even Jesus felt that pull....and overcame it to make a way home

Yes because he was human but also holy. The only perfect sacrifice. He was able to do what I can not on my own. Thats why I must rely on him.

 

[miknik5]

Yes because he was human but also holy. The only perfect sacrifice. He was able to do what I can not on my own. Thats why I must rely on him.

Why is HE HOLY?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

one does not dismiss or cancel the other

if it did, the Bible would tear itself apart

we are not sacrifices other than living sacrifices

do you know what that is?

you cannot even begin to imagine what the sacrifice of Christ even entails if you entertain the smallest iota of belief you can add to it

Nothing can add to it. Jesus paved the way. Do we follow that way or not. Or do we choose the way, then sit down on the nice comfortable bus painted purple, coast all the way to the gate while the believers on the bus put up their feet. Once arrived at the gate. They get off the bus just find the judge to say I never knew you. They look back and really see the paint chipping off the bus and see the actual color is black. The bus stopped many times along the way to give others to jump on and others to jump off.

This bus nicknamed false doctrine. We are to be disciples not a fan. If we have not experienced loss or sacrifices to follow God. Then we are not following God. We have too many fans and not enough followers.

We know works dont save. Obedience in faith of our Lord in his words and his sacrifice.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Why is HE HOLY?

If he wasnt then he wouldn't of been the perfect sacrifice. One who had never sinned

 

[miknik5]

If he wasnt then he wouldn't of been the perfect sacrifice. One who had never sinned

Was HE separate from THE FATHER?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Was HE separate from THE FATHER?

In one sense the trinity is 3 seperate things that do different function all in one body. So no and yes. Just like our brain, heart, and lungs do all different things but all 3 depend on each other and all 3 are part of one body.

 

[miknik5]

In one sense the trinity is 3 seperate things that do different function all in one body. So no and yes. Just like our brain, heart, and lungs do all different things but all 3 depend on each other and all 3 are part of one body.

Nah

never heard it explained like that

if it were three separate bodies those three separate bodies would require three separate brains, hearts, and lungs

 

[miknik5]

Further how many HOLY SPIRITS are there?


Three?

 

[MattforJesus]

Only want to know some things.

The Bible says there is one God,so that cannot be escaped,and God said,is there is a God beside Me,yea,there is no God,I know not any,and before Me there was no God formed,neither shall there be after Me.

They say there is three persons in one God,Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,and then say God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit,saying there is three Gods.

So is there one God,or three Gods,and also if there are three persons in one God,then it would take all three persons to make one God,so they could not call them God individually.

The Bible says,but to us there is but one God,the Father,and in another place,one God,and Father of all,who is above all,through you all,and in you all.

The Bible only attributes the Father as God,and says He is above all,so how can a trinity be equal to each other when the Father is above all.

The Son shall be called the everlasting Father.

Why was the Son conceived by the Holy Spirit,the third person of a trinity,and where is God the Son at the conception of Jesus.

God the Father said that in the future He would appear before the Jews,and speak to them,and reveal His new name.

Jesus said,if you have seen Me you have seen the Father.The words that I speak are not of My own,but the Father that dwells in Me,He does the works.

Jesus told the disciples that when He resurrects to heaven to not ask Him anything,but only ask the Father,but in another passage of scripture Jesus said to ask Him,and He will do it.

God the Father said He would reveal His new name to the Jews,and the prophet Agur said what is His name,and what is His Son's name,if you can tell,which means they would share the same name,for Jesus is God and man,and Jesus said I come in My Father's name,and the Son inherited the name from the Father,and the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

I do not look at Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,as three persons in one God,but the three relationships that God has with His children designated by titles.

Father-parent of the saints,and their provider.

Son-God's visible relationship to the saints,and the way God provided salvation for the saints,and there is one throne in heaven,and one who sits on that throne,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus,and Jesus at the right hand of God means that He exalted the Son to exercise the throne of power until all His enemies are conquered,then the Son shall be subject unto the Father,stop exercising the throne of power,that God may be all in all.

The only person we will see in heaven is Jesus,and He said if you have seen Me you have seen the Father.God is ruling through the man Christ Jesus for the sake of the saints,but when His enemies are conquered then God will stop ruling through the man Christ Jesus,that God may be all in all.

Holy Spirit-God's invisible relationship to the saints,and God working invisible among people,which the Spirit moved in creation,and Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit,and the Spirit dwells in the saints.

Father-title for parental role.

Son-visible relationship.

Holy Spirit-invisible relationship.

But the same God with no distinction of persons.

There is one God,who is a Holy Spirit,and Father is a title for God,and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

 

[followjesus]

Why is HE HOLY?

Because God set Him apart and sanctified Him as Holy.

 

[followjesus]

Only want to know some things.

The Bible says there is one God,so that cannot be escaped,and God said,is there is a God beside Me,yea,there is no God,I know not any,and before Me there was no God formed,neither shall there be after Me.

They say there is three persons in one God,Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,and then say God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit,saying there is three Gods.

So is there one God,or three Gods,and also if there are three persons in one God,then it would take all three persons to make one God,so they could not call them God individually.

The Bible says,but to us there is but one God,the Father,and in another place,one God,and Father of all,who is above all,through you all,and in you all.

The Bible only attributes the Father as God,and says He is above all,so how can a trinity be equal to each other when the Father is above all.

The Son shall be called the everlasting Father.

Why was the Son conceived by the Holy Spirit,the third person of a trinity,and where is God the Son at the conception of Jesus.

God the Father said that in the future He would appear before the Jews,and speak to them,and reveal His new name.

Jesus said,if you have seen Me you have seen the Father.The words that I speak are not of My own,but the Father that dwells in Me,He does the works.

Jesus told the disciples that when He resurrects to heaven to not ask Him anything,but only ask the Father,but in another passage of scripture Jesus said to ask Him,and He will do it.

God the Father said He would reveal His new name to the Jews,and the prophet Agur said what is His name,and what is His Son's name,if you can tell,which means they would share the same name,for Jesus is God and man,and Jesus said I come in My Father's name,and the Son inherited the name from the Father,and the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

I do not look at Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,as three persons in one God,but the three relationships that God has with His children designated by titles.

Father-parent of the saints,and their provider.

Son-God's visible relationship to the saints,and the way God provided salvation for the saints,and there is one throne in heaven,and one who sits on that throne,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus,and Jesus at the right hand of God means that He exalted the Son to exercise the throne of power until all His enemies are conquered,then the Son shall be subject unto the Father,stop exercising the throne of power,that God may be all in all.

The only person we will see in heaven is Jesus,and He said if you have seen Me you have seen the Father.God is ruling through the man Christ Jesus for the sake of the saints,but when His enemies are conquered then God will stop ruling through the man Christ Jesus,that God may be all in all.

Holy Spirit-God's invisible relationship to the saints,and God working invisible among people,which the Spirit moved in creation,and Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit,and the Spirit dwells in the saints.

Father-title for parental role.

Son-visible relationship.

Holy Spirit-invisible relationship.

But the same God with no distinction of persons.

There is one God,who is a Holy Spirit,and Father is a title for God,and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

why is Jesus always seated at Gods right Hand? and never Just alone on the throne? why does Jesus need to receive the commands of God? why does Jesus call God His God and Father? who does He say " God has Given me all authority, and Has Given all things into my Hands? why does Jesus say " The Fathjer Loves me because i do exactly as He commands? Why does He say " These words ARE NOT MINE, but they belong to THE FATHER WHO SENT ME?

why is Jesus tempted ? and then later, James says " God cannot be tempted? Why does John who saw and touched Jesus, insist No one has ever seen God? even though John saw Him transfigured and resurrected? God has a Son His name Is Jesus. the holy spirit is what brings the father and son into us. making father in Jesus, and Jesus in us, and we in him.

Jesus is the Only begotten of God. Did He come from God yes, was He always with God? yes, is He an extension of God? yes is he the exact representation of who God is? yep. is He one with God because God lives in Him? yes, are we one with God because He lives in us through Jesus? yes. does that mean we are God? no. the trinity is a confusing thing there is One God, and one mediator between God and us. through Jesus mediation we receive the Holy ghost wich makes us One with God because He is One with God, and we are One with Him. Jesus purpose was to redeem us unto God, he was exalted to sit beside God, and bring us with Him before the throne by sending the spirit of God into our hearts.


the Only propoer identification of Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Living God. the only proper identification of God is the father of Our Lord and savior Jesus Christ His only begotten Son. it is by those to things we receive the spirit. Jesus was made both Lord and Christ by God God has never Left Heaven, He sent His only begotten into the world while Jeus was on earth, God was in Heaven. Jesus honored God as His God. God the father has no God.

 

[followjesus]

one does not dismiss or cancel the other

if it did, the Bible would tear itself apart

we are not sacrifices other than living sacrifices

do you know what that is?

you cannot even begin to imagine what the sacrifice of Christ even entails if you entertain the smallest iota of belief you can add to it

without belief theres no such thing as salvation.........yes we have a part in it, God is not a dictator, does not hold us hostage. He made an offer we either accept or we reject, if Jesus sacrifice isnt enough to change the heart from a sinner to repentance and righteousness through His spirit, nothing ever will. i understand what Jesus did. i just understand the gospel is more than the cross because Jesus said it again and again. ill never part from the gospel, never part from my Lords Word no matter the circles of explainations and people "explaining i dont get it"

i trust Jesus enough to believe His words, thats what everyone should do who calls Him Lord.

matthew 7:24-27 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


the cross should make this acceptable since our faith is in the one who said it. thats the point the gospel begins at His birth and ends at His ascention. everything in the 4 gospels thats why they are the 4 gospels. the apostles are Great they are testifying to the truth of Jesus and the Gospel. the prophets and Law are Great, they are promising Jesus and the gospel.


ill stay with what He said and if somehow His words arent true, ill have chosen wrong, if His words are spirit and Life and freedom from sin and everlasting Life, Ill live with My Lord forever. my faith is in the One who went to the cross for me, the One who gave me a brand new Life, My Lord, my Hero, my teacher. ill stay with that and always share that message with others. Jesus sacrifice and resurrection proved He is the One to believe. yeah offering our bodies as living sacrifice thats pretty easy to understand. We have a lord, we offer Our lives to Him and stop living after Our own selfish desires and follow His will and testament. that will lead home.

 

[followjesus]

Was HE separate from THE FATHER?

He was on earth, God was in Heaven. see (1 john 5 " the one in heaven and the one on earth) God was with Him because He sent the Holy ghost to Live in Him. God is a spirit. thats why Jesus said

John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

i wonder how the apostles did thier miracles? were they also God, because God was in them through the Holy ghost? or did the holt Ghost make them one with God as Jesus said in the gospel?

john15:9-10 "As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love

Jesus in God.

john 14:15-20 "If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Jesus in God, and Jesus in us because we are in Jesus.thats the work of the holy ghost that comes through Jesus from God.

John 2: 19-21 "jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21But he spake of the temple of his body. "

God who is spirit lived in the Temple of Jesus body, and God who is spirit comes to live in us because we accept Jesus


1 corinthians 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? <<< apparently paul knew this the gospel is all about the Son of God, coming to us through the spirit, Because God lives in Him, and in Us through Jesus
look into this

 

[UnderGrace]

Let's try again..... your statement....

For the greasy gracer

(the false convert) yes. He believes that Jesus’ sacrifice was his license to sin (Jud 4).

He’s never known God (Mt 7:23).

Jude 1:4 (KJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.



Now the word “turning”.
μετατίθημι
metatithēmi

Thayer Definition:

1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other)
This is how the verse should be translated.


[SUP]4 [/SUP]For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, took out the grace of our God and replace it with lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

No such thing as greasy grace. The people were replacing grace with lasciviousness

Therefore it is not about a license to sin ... it actually grace which inhibits sin.
These certain men were working at removing grace.


When you remove the Grace of God, license will come in.

He died for your sins (Luke 19:10). If you’re saved, he destroys Satan’s work in your life (Heb. 2:14; 1 John 3:8).
Is that what the apostle John says? 1 Jn 1:9
For the greasy gracer

(the false convert) yes. He believes that Jesus’ sacrifice was his license to sin (Jud 4).

He’s never known God (Mt 7:23).

…and the cross just excuses that? For the greasy gracer,

yes (Jud 4); but, they die in their sins (Jn 3:36). Catholics teach that they control Jesus—bring him down from heaven daily all over the world on various alters to be re-sacrificed again and again. They sin Monday through Saturday, confess on Sunday and think they’re good with God.

They aren’t (Ro 10:6). They’ve been deceived (Jud 11) believing they won’t die eternally (Ge 3:4).

In the church age you can accept Christ as your Lord and Savior now. Noticed I said Lord and Savior. Not I’ll take that Savior bit and leave out Lord of my life. When the church is gone (wise virgins) strong delusion comes and a new dispensation arrives--something like the OT. They didn't love the truth, they believe the lie (2 Thess 2:11).

 

[miknik5]

Because God set Him apart and sanctified Him as Holy.

So then how can HE say HE sanctifies HIMSELF?

 

[miknik5]

why is Jesus always seated at Gods right Hand? and never Just alone on the throne? why does Jesus need to receive the commands of God? why does Jesus call God His God and Father? who does He say " God has Given me all authority, and Has Given all things into my Hands? why does Jesus say " The Fathjer Loves me because i do exactly as He commands? Why does He say " These words ARE NOT MINE, but they belong to THE FATHER WHO SENT ME?

why is Jesus tempted ? and then later, James says " God cannot be tempted? Why does John who saw and touched Jesus, insist No one has ever seen God? even though John saw Him transfigured and resurrected? God has a Son His name Is Jesus. the holy spirit is what brings the father and son into us. making father in Jesus, and Jesus in us, and we in him.

Jesus is the Only begotten of God. Did He come from God yes, was He always with God? yes, is He an extension of God? yes is he the exact representation of who God is? yep. is He one with God because God lives in Him? yes, are we one with God because He lives in us through Jesus? yes. does that mean we are God? no. the trinity is a confusing thing there is One God, and one mediator between God and us. through Jesus mediation we receive the Holy ghost wich makes us One with God because He is One with God, and we are One with Him. Jesus purpose was to redeem us unto God, he was exalted to sit beside God, and bring us with Him before the throne by sending the spirit of God into our hearts.


the Only propoer identification of Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Living God. the only proper identification of God is the father of Our Lord and savior Jesus Christ His only begotten Son. it is by those to things we receive the spirit. Jesus was made both Lord and Christ by God God has never Left Heaven, He sent His only begotten into the world while Jeus was on earth, God was in Heaven. Jesus honored God as His God. God the father has no God.

Why is there a lamb looking as if slain though lives before the throne?