Not By Works

[Magenta]

I think they face east because that is where Mecca is in Saudi Arabia....their god is the moon and star (a study will reveal the same false god that Abraham's father worshipped in Mesopotamia) The Moon god sin.......

Not surprisingly the Hajj, the annual pilgrimage to Mecca, is saturated
in paganism and idolatry. During the Hajj, Muslims walk circles around
the Kaaba, the cubicle shrine that they pray to. They kiss the black stone.
They run back and forth between the hills of Safa and Malwa and so on.

Where do they get these practices? Before Muhammad conquered
Mecca, the Kaaba was a center of pagan worship in Arabia. The
Kaaba was surrounded by three hundred and sixty pagan idols.

24:78 -- Narrated
The prophet entered Mecca, and at that time there were 360 idols
around the Kaaba. He started stabbing the idols with a stick he had
in his hand, and reciting, and say, truth i.e. Islamic monotheism or this
Jihad against polytheists has come, and Satan, or polytheism, has vanished.

This is when Muhammad took control of the Kaaba.

But why would he want to take control of a pagan
temple and make it the center of Islamic worship?

Let's back up a bit. When Muhammad and his followers were in
Mecca years earlier, they prayed facing Jerusalem. The pagans
prayed facing the Kaaba. Muslims prayed facing Jerusalem like
the Jews. You can line up the Kaaba and Jerusalem if you wanted
so that you were facing both, but the direction of prayer was Jerusalem.

When Muhammad was in Mecca he really thought
that the Jews were going to accept him as a prophet.

The Muslim Community eventually moved to Medina, and the Jews could
tell immediately that Muhammad was a false prophet, because they knew
the Torah, and Muhammad only knew some stories that he had heard.

But Muhammad could not even get those stories right, so the Jews
rejected him, and Allah said to Muhammad in Sura 2:144

Now shall we turn thee to a Quibla that shall please thee. Turn
then thy face in the directions of the sacred mosque. (2:144)

So Allah's goal goal in telling Muslims to face the Kaaba, was
to please Muhammad. It's amazing how much of Islam is
dedicated to pleasing the man who was receiving the revelations.

Why would facing the Kaaba please Muhammad? Two reasons:

One~ he was sending the Jews a message: this is what you get for
rejecting me. Two~ Muhammad had grown up among pagans who
prayed facing the Kaaba and all its idols. So praying to the Kaaba
was normal for them; it felt right. But how could Muhammad justify
praying towards a pagan shrine? Well, just a few verses earlier, (2:127)
Allah declared that the Kaaba was built by Abraham and Ishmael.

Now that's interesting. If it was built by Abraham and Ishmael, why
did Muslims spend more than a decade praying towards Jerusalem?
Why does it seem like Mohammed is inventing this as he goes along?

One of life's great mysteries! (haha I know, right?)

But what evidence do we have that the Kaaba was built by Abraham and
Ishmael? Absolutely none apart from the fact that Muhammad said it.
That's good enough for Muslims, but it shouldn't be. Muhammad had
absolutely no clue what he was talking about, and I can prove it.

3366 narrated Abu Dhar
I said, oh Allah's messenger! Which mosque was first built on the
surface of the Earth? He said, at Makkah. I said, which was built
next? He replied, at Jerusalem. I said, what was the period of
construction between the two? He said, 40 years.

According to Muhammad, there was a 40-year gap between the
construction of the Kaaba and the temple in Jerusalem.

Why is this important? Well, we know when the Jerusalem
Temple was built; Solomon built it in the 10th century BC.

That's more than 1,000 years after Abraham. If Abraham built the
Kaaba, he built it more than a thousand years before Solomon built the
Jerusalem Temple. But Muhammad said they were built 40 years apart.

So we need to ask our Muslim friends, where did Abraham and Ishmael
get their time machine? Because if they didn't have a time machine,
Muhammad was wrong, and we can't trust what he says about the
construction of the Kaaba, and without Muhammad making up
stories about Abraham and Ishmael and the Kaaba, the only
evidence we have tells us that Muslims are bowing down to a
pagan temple and taking a pilgrimage to a pagan temple and
walking circles around a pagan temple.

From a previous post where I transcribed a video by David Wood http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/153017-lets-talk-about-quran.html

 

[dcontroversal]

Not surprisingly the Hajj, the annual pilgrimage to Mecca, is saturated
in paganism and idolatry. During the Hajj, Muslims walk circles around
the Kaaba, the cubicle shrine that they pray to. They kiss the black stone.
They run back and forth between the hills of Safa and Malwa and so on.

Where do they get these practices? Before Muhammad conquered
Mecca, the Kaaba was a center of pagan worship in Arabia. The
Kaaba was surrounded by three hundred and sixty pagan idols.

24:78 -- Narrated
The prophet entered Mecca, and at that time there were 360 idols
around the Kaaba. He started stabbing the idols with a stick he had
in his hand, and reciting, and say, truth i.e. Islamic monotheism or this
Jihad against polytheists has come, and Satan, or polytheism, has vanished.

This is when Muhammad took control of the Kaaba.

But why would he want to take control of a pagan
temple and make it the center of Islamic worship?

Let's back up a bit. When Muhammad and his followers were in
Mecca years earlier, they prayed facing Jerusalem. The pagans
prayed facing the Kaaba. Muslims prayed facing Jerusalem like
the Jews. You can line up the Kaaba and Jerusalem if you wanted
so that you were facing both, but the direction of prayer was Jerusalem.

When Muhammad was in Mecca he really thought
that the Jews were going to accept him as a prophet.

The Muslim Community eventually moved to Medina, and the Jews could
tell immediately that Muhammad was a false prophet, because they knew
the Torah, and Muhammad only knew some stories that he had heard.

But Muhammad could not even get those stories right, so the Jews
rejected him, and Allah said to Muhammad in Sura 2:144

Now shall we turn thee to a Quibla that shall please thee. Turn
then thy face in the directions of the sacred mosque. (2:144)

So Allah's goal goal in telling Muslims to face the Kaaba, was
to please Muhammad. It's amazing how much of Islam is
dedicated to pleasing the man who was receiving the revelations.

Why would facing the Kaaba please Muhammad? Two reasons:

One~ he was sending the Jews a message: this is what you get for
rejecting me. Two~ Muhammad had grown up among pagans who
prayed facing the Kaaba and all its idols. So praying to the Kaaba
was normal for them; it felt right. But how could Muhammad justify
praying towards a pagan shrine? Well, just a few verses earlier, (2:127)
Allah declared that the Kaaba was built by Abraham and Ishmael.

Now that's interesting. If it was built by Abraham and Ishmael, why
did Muslims spend more than a decade praying towards Jerusalem?
Why does it seem like Mohammed is inventing this as he goes along?

One of life's great mysteries! (haha I know, right?)

But what evidence do we have that the Kaaba was built by Abraham and
Ishmael? Absolutely none apart from the fact that Muhammad said it.
That's good enough for Muslims, but it shouldn't be. Muhammad had
absolutely no clue what he was talking about, and I can prove it.

3366 narrated Abu Dhar
I said, oh Allah's messenger! Which mosque was first built on the
surface of the Earth? He said, at Makkah. I said, which was built
next? He replied, at Jerusalem. I said, what was the period of
construction between the two? He said, 40 years.

According to Muhammad, there was a 40-year gap between the
construction of the Kaaba and the temple in Jerusalem.

Why is this important? Well, we know when the Jerusalem
Temple was built; Solomon built it in the 10th century BC.

That's more than 1,000 years after Abraham. If Abraham built the
Kaaba, he built it more than a thousand years before Solomon built the
Jerusalem Temple. But Muhammad said they were built 40 years apart.

So we need to ask our Muslim friends, where did Abraham and Ishmael
get their time machine? Because if they didn't have a time machine,
Muhammad was wrong, and we can't trust what he says about the
construction of the Kaaba, and without Muhammad making up
stories about Abraham and Ishmael and the Kaaba, the only
evidence we have tells us that Muslims are bowing down to a
pagan temple and taking a pilgrimage to a pagan temple and
walking circles around a pagan temple.

From a previous post where I transcribed a video by David Wood http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/153017-lets-talk-about-quran.html

The Muslim cult is one big lie from front to back.............and contrary to many deceived, ignorant people....they do not worship the one true God............end of story......!

 

[dcontroversal]

AMEN and I agree........

I have posted this many times before and I will do it again for any new people viewing the thread and leave it in the hands of the Holy Spirit for it is He that reveals the things of God and of Christ to us.

This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy then we are now.

However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

This involves the renewing of the mind to walk out what already is in the new creation that is one spirit with Christ now. The Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. We participate in this with Him. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person....the real you in your inner man.....the new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

( who are sanctified this is present passive Passive means that something is being done to you ...you are not doing it to yourself...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )

Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive ).

Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.

Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.


Acts 26:17 (NASB)

[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' (perfect passive )

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us.

There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;

[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

We are holy because He is holy! Christ makes us holy and we participate in this outward behavior with the Lord. "For it is God who is at work in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.". Phil. 2:13

 

[dcontroversal]

No such thing as cheap grace.....imagine the fallacy of that statement......one that devalues the blood and sacrifice of Christ....wow....

That he thinks you a Legalist?

Yesterday, Fran said I believed in cheap grace.

Does that make it true?

We can't control other people's behaviors. We can control how we respond to what is said to and about us.

God tells us what heavenly wisdom looks like.

I know we have spoken of these verses before:

James 3
17But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. 18And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

*****

I don't make peace because I am a peaceful person.

I can fight with the best of them....still need to find time to get back at Mcgee (haha thought I forgot didn't you, don't worry..got a pie with your name on it)...

Back on subject.., you are going to have to move past your feelings of hurt and see the bigger picture and what is being said and asked of you.

Folks don't always word things sweet and candy like..,that is not love or heavenly wisdom.

Love is wanting folks to know God's truth even if it hurts their feelings.

****

Seeing past the name calling and labeling
...I see two main positions.

1. Folks want others to be secure in Christ and have Him alone as their foundation. They want others to enter Jesus Sabbath rest. They do this out of Love for those who are weary and discouraged. Those folks who tried to run but really just need a break.

2. These folks are disgusted by the sinful world and want folks to be called out and set apart as God's holy people. They want folks to be a light unto others and actively seek sanctification. Their goal is to motivate people to walk with God and do good works for His Glory. They are the cheerleaders for those running the race. They speak to those who have rested and might be afraid to walk with God or feel unworthy to be a part of God's team. They too speak out of Love.

Then I see a third group, but we aren't suppose to talk about them.

 

[dcontroversal]

AMEN and many miss this fact.....

1. That is the BEMA seat. that is a reward ceremony, where people who worked hard and ran the race to be rewarded.. That is not a judgment seat for punishment,, Some at this ceremony do not even get a reward.. But they are still there.

2. That is different from the great white throne judgment, Where EVERYONE is goes will be cast to outer darkness..

 

[dcontroversal]

AMEN and I AGREE.....

I am so excited as I get to preach the gospel of Christ again!

Resting in Christ and works? What does it mean to enter into the rest of Christ? Does this mean we do nothing?

I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

For it is God who is at work in us - both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He gives us both the desire and the capability. Phil. 2:13

What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ.

The word "rest" can bring the connotations to our natural humanistic minds that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

I won't speak for the others but as far as works go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works" of a believer.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in His good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things by the flesh and the Lord doing things through and in us. ( there is good looking flesh and bad looking flesh - but it is all still flesh )

We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

 

[dcontroversal]

The sign that believers are under the influence of a wolf's teachings is one that teaches us to live righteously apart from the life of Christ manifesting in our lives. We are trying to create and maintain our own self-righteousness/holiness by what we do or don't do.

We are trying to be like God without God doing the work in us by grace through faith in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection. This is the same thing that happened in the garden and the enemy is saying the same thing to us now.

Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.

Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation and living while on this earth.

This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

This below is what satan is really after...this is why he has false teachers in our midst. He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

AMEN........so many posts that I have missed.....haha

 

[dcontroversal]

[video=youtube;CQ_v8Bcm_IE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ_v8Bcm_IE[/video]

Interesting concept.....while pushing for peace between Israel and the Arabs (Palestinians) and uniting the "moderate" Arab factions against a few "radicalized" Arab factions........interesting.......

What do you all think?

 

[Ariel82]

I wasn't a new beleiver when this started.

It started when I suffered a severe knee injury wrecked my potential professional football career.

For fun side of football I played on a Sunday morning and went to church in the evening.

I was laying in a hospital bed and the surgeon told me that my knee wasn't strong enough for this career.
I was gutted.

About an hour after that a Christian came to visit me. I told them what the surgeon said.

Thier response was "God did this to you because you play football on a Sunday morning"

That was part of the process of my downward spiral. Other things contributed to it as well>

I backslid (never lost my faith in Jesus, I was just a shattered person full of guilt) and of course backslidden Christians don't behave like they should do, yet can still hate what they do and call out for help. Like I did every night for 15 years.

Woke up every day at the same time 2:AM in the morning with guilt and fear. Got to the stage where I asked God kill me. Then I would no where I was going. Heaven or hell.

As shocking as that sounds my comfort was that God would look after my wife and 4 kids but that was my comfort.

Condemnation is a bitter pill, and if swallowed it wrecks a person.

There is love in condemnation, it's a breeding ground for fear.

I would encourage us all to not condemn a fellow believer. Just like I felt sat in that hospital bed with the Christian who visited me. His visit to me wasn't with compassion but with condemnation and I believed that lie.

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

Thats the truth and anything different is a lie.

Wow, what an awful thing for that legalistic person to say to you. Makes my heart break even though it happened years ago.

A young man told me he hated God because people at his church told him if he had enough faith and prayer his father Would have been healed instead of dying.

I wanted to shake those folks,

It's a lie that is spread by "word of Faith" magicians.

 

[dcontroversal]

Wow, what an awful thing for that legalistic person to say to you. Makes my heart break even though it happened years ago.

A young man told me he hated God because people at his church told him if he had enough faith and prayer his father Would have been healed instead of dying.

I wanted to shake those folks,

It's a lie that is spread by "word of Faith" magicians.

Which brings up an interesting concept that I have stated more than once to people.....If a person is sick, dying and going to die as there time is up (JOB 14) and it is God's will that they die as he is the one who set their bounds that they cannot pas and we pray for them to get better are we praying against the will of GOD.......

My prayer is always....if it be within your will LORD.........and like JESUS said, "Thy will be done".......

What do you all think?

 

[Ariel82]

I know you did i was teasing lol

Lol...you got me. Gonna have to look out for your jokes.

 

[Ariel82]

News alert the sun God is setting pray to God to protect you tonight

Make sure you hand your anger to God to deal with, also.

I do it because if I continue to hold a grudge I have really bad nightmares and my husband has bruises the next morning...,,also why he is against me watching horror movies, lol.

 

[Ariel82]

Exactly why John in the midst of speaking numerous times about love states...Little children keep yourselves for idols......every where we look....idols.....

Only an issues if people worship them, otherwise they make good firewood....

 

[Ariel82]

Which brings up an interesting concept that I have stated more than once to people.....If a person is sick, dying and going to die as there time is up (JOB 14) and it is God's will that they die as he is the one who set their bounds that they cannot pas and we pray for them to get better are we praying against the will of GOD.......

My prayer is always....if it be within your will LORD.........and like JESUS said, "Thy will be done".......

What do you all think?

I had someone on here tell me it's lacking faith to pray "Thy will be done, Lord."

I gave them scriptures where Jesus prayed it and left the conversation because they got really nasty and insulting.

 

[dcontroversal]

I had someone on here tell me it's lacking faith to pray "Thy will be done, Lord."

I gave them scriptures where Jesus prayed it and left the conversation because they got really nasty and insulting.

You know what I think about that........and could list a few nouns, verbs, adverbs and adjectives but will spare......

 

[Ariel82]

Thanks. I still have my ears covered when folks start cursing..,, I think I might be slightly sheltered by the men in my life, lol.

 

[dcontroversal]

Thanks. I still have my ears covered when folks start cursing..,, I think I might be slightly sheltered by the men in my life, lol.

HAHAH I can use the above implied verbiage without cussing HAHAHAHHA

 

[WineRose]

I wasn't a new beleiver when this started.

It started when I suffered a severe knee injury wrecked my potential professional football career.

For fun side of football I played on a Sunday morning and went to church in the evening.

I was laying in a hospital bed and the surgeon told me that my knee wasn't strong enough for this career.
I was gutted.

About an hour after that a Christian came to visit me. I told them what the surgeon said.

Thier response was "God did this to you because you play football on a Sunday morning"

That was part of the process of my downward spiral. Other things contributed to it as well>

I backslid (never lost my faith in Jesus, I was just a shattered person full of guilt) and of course backslidden Christians don't behave like they should do, yet can still hate what they do and call out for help. Like I did every night for 15 years.

Woke up every day at the same time 2:AM in the morning with guilt and fear. Got to the stage where I asked God kill me. Then I would no where I was going. Heaven or hell.

As shocking as that sounds my comfort was that God would look after my wife and 4 kids but that was my comfort.

Condemnation is a bitter pill, and if swallowed it wrecks a person.

There is love in condemnation, it's a breeding ground for fear.

I would encourage us all to not condemn a fellow believer. Just like I felt sat in that hospital bed with the Christian who visited me. His visit to me wasn't with compassion but with condemnation and I believed that lie.

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

Thats the truth and anything different is a lie.

Wow. You seem to be one tough cookie to go through that for 15 years. Amen.

 

[dcontroversal]

Legalism is legalism. I am sure God thinks the same.

The jews tried to add works of the law, and obedience to salvation.

The church tries to add sacraments and obedience to salvation.

Like I said, what is the difference?

Fruit? Your not going to find fruit in a chatroom.. You find that out in the world..

AMEN and if the WORKS of RIGHTEOUSNESS and or WORKS of the LAW won't save (and both are identified in Titus, Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians) NO work will ever save, keep saved or embellish salvation....

Faith plus works to gain, keep or maintain salvation is straight from the pits of hell!

 

[limey410]

I wasn't a new beleiver when this started.

It started when I suffered a severe knee injury wrecked my potential professional football career.

For fun side of football I played on a Sunday morning and went to church in the evening.

I was laying in a hospital bed and the surgeon told me that my knee wasn't strong enough for this career.
I was gutted.

About an hour after that a Christian came to visit me. I told them what the surgeon said.

Thier response was "God did this to you because you play football on a Sunday morning"

That was part of the process of my downward spiral. Other things contributed to it as well>

I backslid (never lost my faith in Jesus, I was just a shattered person full of guilt) and of course backslidden Christians don't behave like they should do, yet can still hate what they do and call out for help. Like I did every night for 15 years.

Woke up every day at the same time 2:AM in the morning with guilt and fear. Got to the stage where I asked God kill me. Then I would no where I was going. Heaven or hell.

As shocking as that sounds my comfort was that God would look after my wife and 4 kids but that was my comfort.

Condemnation is a bitter pill, and if swallowed it wrecks a person.

There is love in condemnation, it's a breeding ground for fear.

I would encourage us all to not condemn a fellow believer. Just like I felt sat in that hospital bed with the Christian who visited me. His visit to me wasn't with compassion but with condemnation and I believed that lie.

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

Thats the truth and anything different is a lie.

I pray that story makes someone stronger in their faith. To endure the barrage of lies that come against the brethren (sometimes from the brethren). That we can come out of the depths of despair and that God will eventually reveal the truth to us. Thank you for sharing that story Bill. Peace be with you man, always.