Those whom the Lord Jesus will judge

[Grace777x70]

You are missing the point Bruce, or looking right past it. You cannot be one with Christ as you are saying and continue in any form of sexual sin. You cannot be one with Christ and drink/eat to excess to cope with the world, you cannot be one with Christ and drug yourself into bliss, you cannot be one with Christ and continue to gossip spread strife and discord and continue manifesting works of the flesh.

Grace does not give one a pass to continue sinning and an excuse for not bearing fruit. Grace should empower you to stop these things and renew your mind to the word. This foolishness that fruit bearing is not really what the Bible says it is, is an excuse for people too lazy to do the things required to be one with Christ.

That is not true. Being one with Christ is God's doing - not ours. That is a distortion of the gospel. No one goes in and out of Christ - that is how works-based works-righteousness false gospels are made.

Can a Christian act fleshly and still be in Christ? of course - Paul said it himself. The one who is in jealousy and causes strife and divisions amongst each other are in the same lists in the works of the flesh as immorality.

Being one with Christ is God's doing - not ours. That is a distortion of the gospel.

This is NOT condoning such behavior as only the proper preaching of Christ 's work on the cross and resurrection will supply the nutrients for babes in Christ to grow up in Him.

The true grace of God teaches how to live godly in this present world - not a behavior modification program which nullifies the very grace needed for the Christian to walk out who they truly are in the new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph. 4:24

I believe that the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians.

Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.

Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos,"are you not mere men?


I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".

- not that the Corinthians are going to hell because you are sinning. Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.

Some people's religion has our loving Father sending "babes in Christ " to hell because they are "fleshly" ( verse 3 above ). What a horrid false doctrine from the very pit of hell.

 

[Grace777x70]

I do not condemn others that struggle with booze, drugs, sexual addictions, eating disorders, slanderers, murders , and works of the flesh. I do not think I am better than they are, not=r do I base lack of fruit on if a person is truly saved. I try to show them that what the Bible says about renewing their minds and overcoming now is truth and they too can overcome as others before them have. [1 Cor 10.13]

Amen!..well said.

 

[Grace777x70]

It is the message of the good news of the grace of God in Christ alone that teaches us how to live godly in this present world. Titus 2:11-12.

Does the knowledge that the blood of Jesus cleanses from all sin because we are in Christ make us want to go out and sin all we want? No, a thousand times no. Jesus said "He who is forgiven much - loves much."

Knowing the real truth of Christ's work of grace and love for us in His great salvation - We run to our Father for everything including anything that hinders His life from being manifested in our lives. We run to the Father knowing we are secure in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection. We run to the Father boldly to find grace and mercy in time of need.

There will be streams of prodigal sons/daughters that have been dis-illusioned because of religious false teachings and false gospels of self-works and works-righteousness that they have been fed from religion coming to the Father for real life as they hear the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work.

Let's make sure they are met at the door by the Father Himself and not the self-righteous judgmental older brother who it turns out - does not really know the Father for who He really is.

The gospel is the only thing that has the power to effect real transformation in a believer. The good news of Christ Himself is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. Rom. 1:16

 

[Dude653]

*those who

 

[Meggido]

That is not true. Being one with Christ is God's doing - not ours. That is a distortion of the gospel. No one goes in and out of Christ - that is how works-based works-righteousness false gospels are made.

Can a Christian act fleshly and still be in Christ? of course - Paul said it himself. The one who is in jealousy and causes strife and divisions amongst each other are in the same lists in the works of the flesh as immorality.

Being one with Christ is God's doing - not ours. That is a distortion of the gospel.

This is NOT condoning such behavior as only the proper preaching of Christ 's work on the cross and resurrection will supply the nutrients for babes in Christ to grow up in Him.

The true grace of God teaches how to live godly in this present world - not a behavior modification program which nullifies the very grace needed for the Christian to walk out who they truly are in the new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph. 4:24

I believe that the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians.

Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.

Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos,"are you not mere men?


I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".

- not that the Corinthians are going to hell because you are sinning. Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.

Some people's religion has our loving Father sending "babes in Christ " to hell because they are "fleshly" ( verse 3 above ). What a horrid false doctrine from the very pit of hell.

Bruce, we probably disagree on this, but for me it is not salvation issue. I want make that clear. I am not a works based/conditions met salvation believer. For me it is a spiritual maturity issue.

Bearing fruit is expected if you follow Jesus and claim to be his disciple:

John 15.8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.

If a person is not bearing much fruit he is not a disciple of Jesus, that is a decision one makes, base don what heir priorities are.

 

[Chris1975]

*those who

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whom

 

[Grace777x70]

Bruce, we probably disagree on this, but for me it is not salvation issue. I want make that clear. I am not a works based/conditions met salvation believer. For me it is a spiritual maturity issue.

Bearing fruit is expected if you follow Jesus and claim to be his disciple:

John 15.8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.

If a person is not bearing much fruit he is not a disciple of Jesus, that is a decision one makes, base don what heir priorities are.

I agree that it is not a salvation issue in John 15. Works-based false doctrines try to say that our Father sends His beloved children to hell. I know you don't say that.

As I say - there is so much of the gospel that has been watered down and it nullifies the grace of God that is in Christ's work in order for true Christians to grow up in Him.

Bearing fruit will be there "if" we have the gospel right in the first place. Fruit in one area may be in one Christians life but not in another area that some other Christian may have. The one that has no problem with the flesh in that area says the other one is not a disciple because they are not exhibiting the fruit that I am. That is Phariseeism at it's finest.

The thing is - it is His fruit being manifested in and through us. We cannot bear fruit nor produce it.

When we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can just go out and sin because of grace?" - if no one says that to us when we are preaching the grace of God. Then we have not preached the gospel like Paul did.

The very nature of the gospel leads the carnal mind to think that it means we can sin all we want because of grace and this is also what the natural mind that some Christians live by.

This is what they hear when they hear the true gospel being preached which is that our sins are forgiven in Christ because of His blood and that grace believers are saying it's ok to sin all you want now because of grace.

The reality is what is being said is the complete opposite of what those listening with their natural minds think is being said.

We don't need to water down the gospel because it might get mis-understood as it takes away the full strength of the completed and awesome work that our Lord Jesus Christ did for all of us.

The answer to shall we sin so that grace may abound is in Romans chapters 6 and 7.

 

[stonesoffire]

I don't know if this means anything or not..

But, was reading Revelations before coming here and read there are 12 fruits that produce from the tree of life. I do believe this tree represents Yeshua. We eat and drink of His life.

So I counted Pauls list. It is nine. Nine gifts associated with the fruit? Jesus having 12 to me...is the fullness of the Godhead bodily. We are less, not in reflecting His life...producing.

Always falling short until the day we "see" Him literally....IF I am off here on this...please correct. Might be overthinking.

 

[Grace777x70]

I don't know if this means anything or not..

But, was reading Revelations before coming here and read there are 12 fruits that produce from the tree of life. I do believe this tree represents Yeshua. We eat and drink of His life.

So I counted Pauls list. It is nine. Nine gifts associated with the fruit? Jesus having 12 to me...is the fullness of the Godhead bodily. We are less, not in reflecting His life...producing.

Always falling short until the day we "see" Him literally....IF I am off here on this...please correct. Might be overthinking.

I have never heard that. What are the other 3 fruit mentioned that speak of Jesus?

 

[stonesoffire]

I don't know Grace. It's something that I saw..never heard it before either.

 

[stonesoffire]

Rev 22:11　 Let the one who does what is evil continue to do what is evil. Let the filthy person continue to be filthy. Let the righteous person continue to do what is right. And let the holy person continue to be holy."　

Why the distinction between evil and filthy; righteous and holy?

I don't believe anything in scripture is meaningless.

 

[Meggido]

I don't know if this means anything or not..

But, was reading Revelations before coming here and read there are 12 fruits that produce from the tree of life. I do believe this tree represents Yeshua. We eat and drink of His life.

So I counted Pauls list. It is nine. Nine gifts associated with the fruit? Jesus having 12 to me...is the fullness of the Godhead bodily. We are less, not in reflecting His life...producing.

Always falling short until the day we "see" Him literally....IF I am off here on this...please correct. Might be overthinking.

Rev 22.1-3

22 Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, [SUP]2 [/SUP]in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

 

[stonesoffire]

Leaves:

~G5444
φύλλον
phullon
fool'-lon
From the same as G5443; a sprout, that is, leaf: - leaf.
Total KJV occurrences: 6

I just saw this greek meaning this morning. And yes, I know we are offtopic now. Sorry

I titled this poem..Fruit From The Tree of Life

A Fall Shoot is one that is born out of timeLeaves have fallen to earth,
trees are barren and dry..


Foretold promise now springs forth in life


Cool winds start their blowing
Dry leaves through the air
Senses wake to a fresh scent
Perfumed sweet and rare


But why would one pick this time
My heart questions...
Why not in Spring when all others are blooming?
Why choose a time when the plantings are dying?
A time that can only be shortened by
cold?




This is the season of newness in showing
My Sprout has been hidden from all others view
I've given the promise of it's re appearing
My Child look to earth, for the right time's drawing near.

 

[stonesoffire]

aw..drat...I titled that poem Sprouts From The Tree of Life, not fruit...

Had to correct. This was one that I didn't understand fully. Still may be more to see.

 

[Stephen63]

That is not true. Being one with Christ is God's doing - not ours. That is a distortion of the gospel. No one goes in and out of Christ - that is how works-based works-righteousness false gospels are made.

Being one with Christ is God's doing - not ours. That is a distortion of the gospel.

The rule of most cultists is when cornered, tell 'em it's all God's idea & plan, not yours. It leaves the opponent psychologically fighting with God.

This is an old gaslighting technique used to get the opponent to rethink his stance or rethink whether or not he's ready to continue his argument.

Most folks think gaslighting is used only on the victim of the conversation. That's not so. Every reader rethinking their position is also a victim.

So gaslighting isn't primarily used on the opponent to change the opponent's views. It's primary focus in forums is the readers, to turn them against the opponent/victim.

So be careful, dear readers.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

That is not true. Being one with Christ is God's doing - not ours. That is a distortion of the gospel. No one goes in and out of Christ - that is how works-based works-righteousness false gospels are made.

Being one with Christ is God's doing - not ours. That is a distortion of the gospel.

Unquote:


1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

The Lord has done great things for us and we are glad! Part of the manifestation of the kingdom of God in us is JOY!

 

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

That is not true. Being one with Christ is God's doing - not ours. That is a distortion of the gospel. No one goes in and out of Christ - that is how works-based works-righteousness false gospels are made.

Being one with Christ is God's doing - not ours. That is a distortion of the gospel.

Unquote:


1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

The Lord has done great things for us and we are glad! Part of the manifestation of the kingdom of God in us is JOY!

Can I copy/paste my post a few times, too?

Can I, huh, can I?!?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

The Lord has done great things for us and we are glad! Part of the manifestation of the kingdom of God in us is JOY!

Verses which point to God keeping the believer safe are ignored by some and those who rely on God keeping His promise to secure the believer are then accused of sitting back and not doing a thing when, in fact, we do those good works which God has before ordained ... same as those who believe God needs their help in keeping them safe.

I guess God creating heaven and earth and all that is therein is not enough to convince some and some figure God still needs help when it comes to keeping His children from falling.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Verses which point to God keeping the believer safe are ignored by some and those who rely on God keeping His promise to secure the believer are then accused of sitting back and not doing a thing when, in fact, we do those good works which God has before ordained ... same as those who believe God needs their help in keeping them safe.

I guess God creating heaven and earth and all that is therein is not enough to convince some and some figure God still needs help when it comes to keeping His children from falling.

I think the point is those that are the Believers are the ones following God and these are the ones that God is keeping safe because they are living by every word that proceed out of the mouth of God. Those that are professing to follow God while still practicing sin are not the believers and are not followers of God....

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1John 2:3-4)

God bless you

 

[Stephen63]

Verses which point to God keeping the believer safe are ignored by some and those who rely on God keeping His promise to secure the believer are then accused of sitting back and not doing a thing when, in fact, we do those good works which God has before ordained ... same as those who believe God needs their help in keeping them safe.

I guess God creating heaven and earth and all that is therein is not enough to convince some and some figure God still needs help when it comes to keeping His children from falling.

Propagandists always play the blame game.