Not By Works

[Grace777x70]

Just as the rot of the Nicolaitans will be like gangrene in the spiritual life of anyone who believes that doctrine.

I agree that without Christ as the foundation, folks are just building on shifting sand.

However gold, silver and precious jewels remain as defined by God and not men.

I agree.....anyone trying to "lord it over another's faith" in any form is teaching the false doctrine of the Nicolaitans.

This comes in many forms and disguises but all of them dismiss the finished work of Christ and the revelation that He alone is our righteousness and life.

The name “Nicolaitans” is derived from the Greek word nikolaos, a compound of the words nikos and laos. The word nikos is the Greek word that means to conquer or to subdue.

The word laos is the Greek word for the people. It is also where we get the word laity. When these two words are compounded into one, they form the name Nicolas, which literally means one who conquers and subdues the people. It seems to suggest that the Nicolaitans were somehow conquering and subduing the people.

Who Were the Nicolaitans | Sparkling Gems from the Greek

There can be no compromise in the building of the foundation of grace by faith in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

Any type of compromise creates a distortion of the life of Christ that is in our new creation in Him and nullifies grace of God needed in order to manifest a true transformation by the Holy Spirit. This non-compromise in the grace of God in Christ will teach us how to live godly in this present world. Titus 2:11-12

Be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus! 2 Tim. 2:1

 

[Ariel82]

Let me try and "speak your language" Peterjens, though you don't bother to learn an speak anyone else's but demand people speak yours to you instead.

.

Each person uses language their way, and if you care about the individual you have
to learn their language..

Why don't You learn to speak others language?

.

I have stopped analysing my attitudes or motives, because invariably I construct a lot of
things that do not exist or are just ideas..

The above sounds like you are deny that to NOT taKE hold of every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, is a sin. It sounds like you are excusing your sin because you believe your "motive" is love. However since you don't question your motives and say you "invariably construct" "alot of things that do not exist or are just ideas" (aka strawmen or lies about others beliefs), how is that not another way of justifying your sin by saying you can't help but make up this things?

There is no "invariably construct"....if it isn't true or real or just ideas...pray, tear them down...don't speak them as if they are true and pretend innocence when you allow the Enemy to use you as his spokesperson for false ideas.

 

[PeterJens]

Nice Christian quote....more proof to your character.........

lol.

And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matt 5:22

Jezebel’s body will be like dung on the ground in the plot at Jezreel, so that no one will be able to say, ‘This is Jezebel.'
2 Kings 9:37

They will die of deadly diseases. They will not be mourned or buried but will be like dung lying on the ground. They will perish by sword and famine, and their dead bodies will become food for the birds and the wild animals.
Jere 16:4

Son of man, I am about to cut off the food supply in Jerusalem. The people will eat rationed food in anxiety and drink rationed water in despair, for food and water will be scarce. They will be appalled at the sight of each other and will waste away because of their sin.
Eze 4:16-17

Sin is worthy of judgement, and in eternity there is no compromise with it.

The insecurity of many has driven them into compromise with the enemy of Christ,
to preach compromise in our lives, our purity, holiness and walk with Jesus.

Those who walk this path walk the path of the flesh and condemnation.

Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
Rom 8:5-6

Those who walk in death inherit death.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am staggard by the picture of salvation you provide.

Jesus is pure and Holy, brings holiness and purity to our hearts, yet this is left,
we are always contaminated, never purified or made whole, always failing and
lost.

And if we share the freedom through the cross we are legalists and evil, preaching
a false gospel except this is the gospel of scripture, but you cannot stand to read
the sermon on the mount and rejoice in the love He is preaching here.

Jesus taught something very simple. Those who reject His words will reject His
followers. And so it is. God bless you, for salvation is in nothing else but Jesus
Christ the son of God.

I am staggard by by the picture of mankind you provide, a mankind that can work his way to eternal life, and thus his need for God is irrevelant, as is the cross.

I agree god d makes us holy, it S the result of our salvation though, no t the cause of it. That was S where we differ, you work to earn it, I work because of it, out of appreciation and gratitude of it

 

[dcontroversal]

lol.

And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matt 5:22

Jezebel’s body will be like dung on the ground in the plot at Jezreel, so that no one will be able to say, ‘This is Jezebel.'
2 Kings 9:37

They will die of deadly diseases. They will not be mourned or buried but will be like dung lying on the ground. They will perish by sword and famine, and their dead bodies will become food for the birds and the wild animals.
Jere 16:4

Son of man, I am about to cut off the food supply in Jerusalem. The people will eat rationed food in anxiety and drink rationed water in despair, for food and water will be scarce. They will be appalled at the sight of each other and will waste away because of their sin.
Eze 4:16-17

Sin is worthy of judgement, and in eternity there is no compromise with it.

The insecurity of many has driven them into compromise with the enemy of Christ,
to preach compromise in our lives, our purity, holiness and walk with Jesus.

Those who walk this path walk the path of the flesh and condemnation.

Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
Rom 8:5-6

Those who walk in death inherit death.

Nice misdirection and what you said has nothing to do with the fact that you equated some believers with bugs that eat crap and even placed them lower than bugs that eat crap.......

You may fool a few people in here, but at the end of the day......it is obvious and as plain as day as to what spirit leads you....

 

[Stephen63]

Is a tumble bug a dung beetle. Dung beetles are a great benefit to the eco system.
They take dung and recycle it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dung_beetle

I really appreciate their services. But maybe linking such a useful creature to
some people dishonours the dung beetle.

I don't think you should let one use a keyboard either..... then it ends up on the internet, lol!

 

[PeterJens]

you allow the Enemy to use you as his spokesperson for false ideas.

Ariel - If I express my point of view, the logical framework as to why I make certain conclusions,
I am sinning and lying.

If I talk about being in communion with God and knowing emotional spiritual and closeness to our King
I am being too emotional.

If I try and understand anothers theology in a structured way I am projecting on to them.

I see the theme being followed, so God bless you.
I think you need to learn how to bless rather than correct, because your corrections are more
about your style of presenting what you believe than actually being a valid proposition.

I have a simple hierarchy of righteousness. Behaviour followed by faith.
If people deny behaviour they are simply corrupt, evil people. You want to defend such as this,
so it is your fellowship and funeral.

The great thing about God is morality is that simple. Hallelujah, a child can work out what love
actually is.

 

[dcontroversal]

I don't think you should let one use a keyboard either..... then it ends up on the internet, lol!

Nice........I bet you are a super duper Christian on Sundays hey......probably a pressed suit, nice tie, shined shoes with hair sprayed in place....bible in hand and use "thee" and "thou" when you speak.....it's OK STEVIE........we all know HAHAHAH

 

[PeterJens]

I don't think you should let one use a keyboard either..... then it ends up on the internet, lol!

Because some can string together some potent ideas, and condemn good people as evil, hell bound
believers, and then play innocent that the consequences of such potent ideas is pure evil itself and
the work of satan himself.

I often deal with very fragile people who hold on to their loving Christ through various different
ideas, and understandings. I would rather support them and encourage them to reach out and
put their trust in Him than get involved in some theological corrections as to convictions and what
the finer points of the faith are. People get so intellectual it is often too much for their own good.

It is why this arena is so weird most would not give a second glance at most of the points and
dismiss them as junk without a second thought.

To know Christ is to follow Him.

 

[Ariel82]

Ouch..... she just cussed you, dude.

How is that a cuss?

 

[PeterJens]

How is that a cuss?

It is a joke, lol

 

[Ariel82]

Ariel - If I express my point of view, the logical framework as to why I make certain conclusions,
I am sinning and lying.

If I talk about being in communion with God and knowing emotional spiritual and closeness to our King
I am being too emotional.

If I try and understand anothers theology in a structured way I am projecting on to them.

I see the theme being followed, so God bless you.
I think you need to learn how to bless rather than correct, because your corrections are more
about your style of presenting what you believe than actually being a valid proposition.

I have a simple hierarchy of righteousness. Behaviour followed by faith.
If people deny behaviour they are simply corrupt, evil people. You want to defend such as this,
so it is your fellowship and funeral.

The great thing about God is morality is that simple. Hallelujah, a child can work out what love
actually is.

Again you miss the whole point.

"If people deny behaviour they are simply corrupt, evil people"

No one denies behavior changes when you walk with God. However if you want to make behavior as the basis for salvation Then you are doing as accused and teaching a works based salvation.

The fact you judge people as "evil and corrupt" should give you a clue.

 

[Ariel82]

I agree.....anyone trying to "lord it over another's faith" in any form is teaching the false doctrine of the Nicolaitans.

This comes in many forms and disguises but all of them dismiss the finished work of Christ and the revelation that He alone is our righteousness and life.

The name “Nicolaitans” is derived from the Greek word nikolaos, a compound of the words nikos and laos. The word nikos is the Greek word that means to conquer or to subdue.

The word laos is the Greek word for the people. It is also where we get the word laity. When these two words are compounded into one, they form the name Nicolas, which literally means one who conquers and subdues the people. It seems to suggest that the Nicolaitans were somehow conquering and subduing the people.

Who Were the Nicolaitans | Sparkling Gems from the Greek

There can be no compromise in the building of the foundation of grace by faith in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

Any type of compromise creates a distortion of the life of Christ that is in our new creation in Him and nullifies grace of God needed in order to manifest a true transformation by the Holy Spirit. This non-compromise in the grace of God in Christ will teach us how to live godly in this present world. Titus 2:11-12

Be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus! 2 Tim. 2:1

I came back to actually comment that this is one way to interpret but I disagree because it says that the deacon Nicholas went apostate.

Topical Bible: Nicolaitans

.

Nicolaitans
Heretical persons or teachers, mentioned in Revelation 2:6,15. Whether they were the same as the Nicolaitans of the second century and later is very doubtful. Some suppose them to be followers of Nicolas the deacon, but there is no good evidence that he ever became a heretic..

Anyway folks can study and decide for themselves what God reveals

Or they can rejoice in how much more righteous they are than those filthy sinners.

 

[PeterJens]

Again you miss the whole point.

"If people deny behaviour they are simply corrupt, evil people"

No one denies behavior changes when you walk with God. However if you want to make behavior as the basis for salvation Then you are doing as accused and teaching a works based salvation.

The fact you judge people as "evil and corrupt" should give you a clue.

You say I miss the point, how is it the simple points I make you do not accept or see.

I have had too many discussions about people holding onto total inability or walking
in the Spirit righteously, it becomes meaningless and simply miss-representing a simple idea.

Now if one holds evil behaviour is not evil behaviour, but forgiven behaviour which one is
innocent of because one was forgiven before the action, this is evil and corrupt behaviour.

There is a vast difference between this and people falling into sin, being caught in a delusion or
emotional drive that has unforseen consequences. If confronted repentance and confession results
then this is an abberation, but if a sign of a loss of faith and rebellion against Christ, salvation has
been lost.

Rather than me being corrupted, it is your insecurity in Christ which compromises on sinful behaviour
and wants to support apostates who desire to cause division and condemnation.

Their condemnation is not hidden, it is plain, done almost everyday, they spew it like it is their mission
in their belief system.

Now where you go wrong, is when you say righteous walking is the fruit of the Holy Spirit in your life,
you do not just leave it there. The fruit of the flesh is sin, and death is its end.

The works of sin are plain and simple. Those who defend sinful behaviour are workers of iniquity.
It is as clear as day. It is really this simple.

So let us worship our King and walk in Holiness, Purity and love, being lights in a dark place, even
here on cc, Amen and Halleluyah.

[video=youtube;XzXwkToBNZY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzXwkToBNZY[/video]

 

[Ariel82]

Show me one person who holds this false belief

.

Now if one holds evil behaviour is not evil behaviour, but forgiven behaviour which one is
innocent of because one was forgiven before the action, this is evil and corrupt behaviour..

I have seen you say what someone was convicted by the Holy Spirit that their thoughts, attitudes and motives as sinful not really sin because you don't believe motive and attitude should be examined. You deny that its even a sin so why should you repent?

Would you like a mirror?

So you don't understand the terms "total inability" and "future sins forgiven"?

Maybe you should learn to speak their language before you condemn them? Or do you not have enough love for them to be bothered?

 

[PeterJens]

Show me one person who holds this false belief

I have seen you say what someone was convicted by the Holy Spirit that their thoughts, attitudes and motives as sinful not really sin because you don't believe motive and attitude should be examined. You deny that its even a sin so why should you repent?

Would you like a mirror?

So you don't understand the terms "total inability" and "future sins forgiven"?

Maybe you should learn to speak their language before you condemn them? Or do you not have enough love for them to be bothered?

Sorry. You sound like you are trying to rebuke me.
Total inability is about the belief no one can walk righteously in the Spirit.
As various theologians express it, sexual desire is the sin inherited from Adam, causing
fellowship with God to be impossible without grace or Christs imputed righteousness.

And you are trying to tell me I do not understand future sins forgiven? When I am told
precisely by people who hold this how God forgives them while they are commiting sin,
it is simply absurd for me to deny their interpretation, as they spelt it out.

And what I am pointing to is Gods definition of sin. These are evil acts, which cannot be
denied, that stand out in isolation as evil deeds.

The problem with motives and attitudes is they get very confusing and almost everyone has
a mixture of reasons for doing everything. So it is much better to encourage ones heart to
focus on love and on Christ and the cross. To follow Jesus is not that we do not have internal
conflicts, but that we overcome them and follow in love and sacrifice.

You want to find conflict over things that are plain and simple. Why is this?
Are you a perfectionist, driving things to a distinct place even when this is impossible?

It reminds me of Mary and Martha. Martha asks Jesus to put Mary right, and Jesus
apologises, that Mary has chosen the better of the two options, though neither was
wrong. Now for some this reality of freedom in Christ, and how we order our lives and
direction, is not black and white, but rather we must push through in the Lords power.

Do you always want the last word, rather than let me express my faith how I do, which
the Lord blesses and encourages?

What I find ironic is if a believer comes and hits me over the head, pummels me in the ground,
and I describe what they are doing, I am sinful to do this. Now I cannot relate to you
because whatever drives you, it does not drive me.

As I have said before God bless you.

 

[Stephen63]

Nice........I bet you are a super duper Christian on Sundays hey......probably a pressed suit, nice tie, shined shoes with hair sprayed in place....bible in hand and use "thee" and "thou" when you speak.....it's OK STEVIE........we all know nuthin' HAHAHAH

There..... all fixed.

 

[BillG]

am i rejecting him for believing repentance leads to salvation ?

Its repentance that leads to salvation.

Repenting here is when we place our faith in Jesus.
That is why Jesus had to go back to the Father so the Holy Spirit would come.

The Holy Spirit would convict the world if it's sin and that sin being unbelief in Jesus.

When we repent of that then comes salvation, we are then in Jesus and Jesus is in us.

We are in the vine and we get our nourishment and nutrients from the vine.
That helps us grow and bear fruit.

My thoughts

 

[Ariel82]

Total inability is about the belief no one can walk righteously WITHOUT the HOLY Spirit..

there.... All fixed..

 

[PeterJens]

Or do you not have enough love for them to be bothered?

This is such an intense a suggestion.
It is like telling someone off for trying to relate to others, and reflect back their positions,
then rebuke them for not doing that very thing.

This is what is just a way of showing ones frustration with someone, but not actually dealing
honestly with what the problem really is.

Now you have taken on as brothers 3 of the most provocative members on cc.
So it is like saying the hornets are really cuddly miss-understood people who mean only blessing
and have no abuse or condemnation traits, when this is what I see constantly.

What has amused me is how when someone is set on abusing someone else, if one interjects
that this is not good behaviour, one becomes the very target of the abuser, and then accused
of being an abuser. It is like a disease that spreads like gangrene.

Paul talked about this

"Their teaching will spread like gangrene"
2 Tim 2:17

Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
2 Tim 2:14

Odd that, quarreling about words!!! What does this do? ruins those who listen.