Not By Works

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Ariel82

Guest
What a load of .....cow manure.

Peterjens, I wish people would not quite your trash talking.

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As I suspected Ariel really agrees with the rest and was faking talking about empathy, when
in reality she need security or else her lifestyle causes too much stress to cope with. .
I try and follow Wesley's advice and learn to listen to what people are actually saying.

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2. It is true believers may not all speak alike; they may not all use the same language. It is not to be expected that they should: we cannot reasonably require it of them. A thousand circumstances may cause them to vary from each other, in the manner of expressing themselves: But a difference of expression does nor necessarily imply a difference of sentiment. Different persons may use different expressions, and yet mean the same thing. Nothing is more common than this, although we seldom make sufficient allowance for it. Nay, it is not easy for the same persons, when they speak of the same thing at a considerable distance of time, to use exactly the same expressions, even though they retain the same sentiments: How then can we be rigorous in requiring others to use just the same expressions with us

3. We may go a step farther yet: Men may differ from us in their opinions, as well as their expressions, and nevertheless be partakers with us of the same precious faith. It is possible they may not have a distinct apprehension of the very blessing which they enjoy: Their ideas may not be so clear, and yet their experience may be as sound, as ours. There is a wide difference between the natural faculties of men, their understandings in particular; And that difference is exceedingly increased by the manner of their education. Indeed, this alone may occasion an inconceivable difference in their opinions of various kinds; and why not upon this head, as well as on any other But still, though their opinions, as well as expressions, may be confused and inaccurate, their hearts may cleave to God through the Son of his love, and be truly interested in his righteousness.

4. Let us then make all that allowance to others, which, were we in their place, we would desire for ourselves. Who is ignorant (to touch again on that circumstance only) of the amazing power of education.
However you continually make false accusations and insinuating comments.

I have nothing to be convicted of currently in my life. I don't drink, I don't do drugs,i could pass the perfect modern day Pharisee test,

However God has showed me that faith in Jesus is that precious pearl without price.

All the riches of the world mean nothing next to the love and hope of salvation found in Christ.

It's not your theology that I have issues with, it's your attitude where you think nothing of posting false insinuations about anyone who doesn't pander to your self importance and listen to you.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
I didn't become Christian because I wanted to go to heaven....all my friends and family were unsaved and destined to hell according to most evangelist.

I had the faith of a heathen...I believes in God and doing good works to earn a reward.

I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior because one person said that Jesus would send the Holy spirit and He would be my best friend and explain the Bible to me in a way I could not understand alone. He would help me overcome sin. He would comfort me when I am sad. He would love me always.

You see I was Buddhist and my behaviour was more righteous than many Christians. I had a car and would take. People on errands for free, I tutored,i gave alms to the poor, I comforted those grieving, I prayed to God as my heavenly father....why did I need Jesus, when so many Christians were hypocrites?

That's what I thought but God called me. Someone gave me a bible in high school and I read it at least 3 times the first year. I asked questions but most high schoolers who claimed to be Christians hadn't even read it once. I talked to pastors, but they didnt answer my questions but wanted to preach about Jesus. They never really listened or prayed with me...they prayed for me but there is a difference.

Anyway, I know now the difference between a heathen faith in God the Father and a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

Many people have a heathen faith and not a saving faith.

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The Wesley Center Online: Sermon 1 - Salvation By Faith

Now, God requireth of a heathen to believe, "that God is; that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him;" and that he is to be sought by glorifying him as God, by giving him thanks for all things, and by a careful practice of moral virtue, of justice, mercy, and truth, toward their fellow creatures. A Greek or Roman, therefore, yea, a Scythian or Indian, was without excuse if he did not believe thus much: the being and attributes of God, a future state of reward and punishment, and the obligatory nature of moral virtue. For this is barely the faith of a heathen..
 
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Jun 5, 2017
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There are absolutely no conditions for the believer that Christ is in that needs to ask God for the forgiveness of sins. In Him we have redemption - the forgiveness of sins.

1 John 1:9 is the only scripture in the New Testament that says we need to confess sin in order to receive forgiveness and it has been grossly taken out of context with the whole chapter of 1 John.

If it was of such great importance - you would think that Paul would at least mentioned it in his letters. He does not.

Scripture isolated can cause all sorts of opinions and traditions to be put in place:

If we pay attention to the ..we and our and the you in 1 John chapter 1 we will discover some great truths. These may conflict with some our church teachings and traditions.



"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we (believers - namely John ) have looked at and ourhands have touched - this weproclaim concerning the Word of Life"

(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.

"We( believers - namely John himself ) proclaim to you(unbelievers - gnostics ) what we have seen and heard, so that you (unbelievers - gnostics ) also may have fellowship with us ( believers ). And our(believers )fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).

This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics ( unbelievers ) to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ.

Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ. ( just like we do now in all churches....there are both types of people )

"This is the message
we ( believers ) have heard from Him and declare to you ( unbelievers ):God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).

John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost). Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).


"If weclaim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).

In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics ( not true believers ) claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.

"If we ( believers )walk in the light, as He is in the light,
we ( believers ) have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us ( believers ) from all sin" (verse 7).

In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin.
The blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin because we are in Christ. This is always in present tense.

Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins. We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.

"If we( John putting all of us in the same boat before coming to Christ ) claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (verse 8).

John is now addressing the belief the Gnostics had regarding sin because they didn't believe it was real and therefore believed they had no sin. The "we" John is using here refers to all people before coming to Christ including all believers too which "we" had to acknowledge at some point in our lives.

He is referring specifically to the Gnostics, who believed they were without sin. Because they claimed to be without sin, then they were only deceiving themselves and the truth (Jesus) was not in them.

However, verse 9 says that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

In other words, if the Gnostics were to confess they had sins, then God, Who is faithful and righteous, would forgive and cleanse them from their unrighteousness.

In the Greek language, the words "forgive" and "cleanse" mean past actions that have results today and will continue to have results in the future.

Also, the word "all" used in these verses means all. It doesn't mean that we are cleansed of our past sins and our past unrighteousness, it means we were cleansed of all our unrighteousness. And if God cleanses us from all unrighteousness, then we are cleansed forever!

We become a new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph. 4:24

"If we claim we ( all of us were in this boat at one time ) have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word has no place in our lives" (verse 10).

Basically this verse is a repeat of verse 8. To put it simply, it means that the Gnostics can't claim to be without sin and yet be saved. John is saying that because the Gnostics claimed they had no sin, they were actually calling God a liar and therefore didn't know the truth.

The purpose of the first chapter of 1 John was to compare the truth of God to the error of gnosticism. John was addressing the Gnostics, who were deceived by their own teaching. He wanted the Gnostics to understand that what they believed conflicted with what God said. He was not, however, addressing believers.

However we can all learn from all scriptures including 1 John 1 - I especially love the truth of verse 7 - the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin because we are in Him.


Hi Grace777 thanks for your message, I don't know what your saying in it though, I just know that I need to follow God's Word which is very clear on the subject....

"If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1John 1:9)
"He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy." (Pro 28:13)

It seems I may have a different faith to you or maybe I am not understanding you very well. If this is the case please forgive me. I know that you are not in Christ of following him if you are knowingly sinning against him...

" And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." (1John 2:3)
" He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1John 2:4)

God bless you but I think I need to get a glass of water :rolleyes:
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Hi Grace777 thanks for your message, I don't know what your saying in it though, I just know that I need to follow God's Word which is very clear on the subject....

"If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1John 1:9)
"He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy." (Pro 28:13)

It seems I may have a different faith to you or maybe I am not understanding you very well. If this is the case please forgive me. I know that you are not in Christ of following him if you are knowingly sinning against him...

" And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." (1John 2:3)
" He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1John 2:4)

God bless you

Have you ever heard anyone say not to base a doctrine on one verse? 1 John 1:9 does that when you look at the New Covenant.

Religious terachigns and traditions have watered down the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

John tells us exactly what those commandments are in the New Covenant later in his letter.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Right believing will bring right thinking which will manifest His life in and through us to live godly in this present world.



Here is a video that will show that 1 John 1:9 is talking about unbelievers that needs to acknowledge that they do have sin and that they need to receive forgiveness and the gift of righteousness. Rom. 5:17

We have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ. We all need to repent and believe in the gospel - just like Jesus said in Mark 1:15.


[video=youtube;97_91LKxlU0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97_91LKxlU0[/video]
 
Dec 2, 2016
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We are forgiven of future sins?? Of course not, that leaves the impression that you are already forgiven of some sin even before you commit it. That is even worse then saying, Lord forgive me of the sin I am about to commit. When we come to Jesus Christ we are forgiven of all our sins, now if we later on sin we can repent and ask for forgiveness and we are forgiven. As long as we continue to walk in faith and confess our sins we can continually be forgiven, however we are not forgiven of sins that we have not yet committed, we have to deal with sin in the now, not in the future that has yet to exist.
 
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JoDel

Guest
My daughter was Navy/Marine corpsman out of Pendleton for 7 years. Did a tour in Iraq, Al Asaad. She taught me that once one becomes a marine, they are always a marine. Her military bearing taught me much in respecting our armed forces... MUCH MORE. So, my appreciation may be a bit biased :).
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Forgiveness is a done deal - either believe it or don't believe it.

On the subject of forgiveness that we have in Christ now because of His precious Blood...here is what the scriptures say.....sometimes the truth in the gospel of the grace of Christ "conflicts" with what we have been religiously taught.

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

perfect =
The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present time.
It is continuously happening in the present.

passive = voice =
action is happening to you....you are not doing it

Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous completed state and that was put on them....not something they did.

Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

We have redemption = present continuous action...so this means we have present continuous forgiveness of our sins
...

and look...that grace stuff shows up again!...
it's all according to the riches of our loving Father's grace that He has given to us in Christ our Lord.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Same thing here too...present continuous action = forgiveness of sins


Redemption!..we have been bought with the precious Blood of Jesus... Let's honor His work.



Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!

Walk in the knowledge of your forgiveness in Christ and in that security we will experience maturity.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
We have to deal with sins now but God deals with sins past present and future.

I posted earlier that God deals with sins in 2 manners: judge and father.

Jesus paid for all our sins (past, present and future in the legal sense), thus we will not be sent to hell for not being sinless.

However God the Father will deal with us and our sin personally...he will chastens and teach us to overcome sin.that is why we need to pray and worship God and read the Bible daily,
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
G777, you see traditions are part of the Wesley quadrilateral to determine if someone is teaching sound doctrine and you keep putting it down with these type of words

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Religious terachigns and traditions have watered down the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection..
I don't know what churches you attend but mine doesn't do that and most folks I know don't believe in a water down gospel.

Wesleyan Quadrilateral - The United Methodist Church
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The resulting four components or "sides" of the quadrilateral are (1) Scripture, (2) tradition, (3) reason, and (4) experience.
 
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JoDel

Guest
Simply... if our "works" could save us, there would have been no need for the cross.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Jesus said in Mark 7:13 and Matthew 15:6 that we can make the word of God of no effect by our traditions. The thing about traditions is - we don't know we have them until we see them in the light of the gospel of Christ and His finished work.

Paul warned the Colossians not to be held captive by the traditions of men. Col. 2:8

Religiously taught traditions can the strongest strongholds in the mind because we think we are "defending the truth" but we could just be "defending our church teachings and traditions" that are in fact contrary to the word of God.

I always ask the Father to reveal the Lord Jesus Christ and His work to me and thank Him for the Holy Spirit who takes the things of God and of Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and reveals them to us.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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OK, however I would like to make a point, if I rob the bank and kill the security guard tomorrow, that sin was not forgiven when I became a Christian many years ago, the potential for that sin to be forgiven occurred many years ago when I became a Christian, however that sin was not forgiven as an automatic result of my salvation. At this point in my life I have asked for forgiveness of all known sin, so I am forgiven. If I wake up tomorrow and decide to commit some serious sin, it has not already been forgiven, if I truly repent then I could be forgiven. If I am forgiven for all sins of the future without me personally repenting and asking forgiveness, then I might as well enjoy the desires of the flesh because it does not make any difference anyway...I get to have my cake and eat it to. A Christian is forgiven of sins PAST, and if they commit a sin they can ask and be forgiven, however there is no automatic forgiveness of future sins.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I didn't become Christian because I wanted to go to heaven....all my friends and family were unsaved and destined to hell according to most evangelist.

I had the faith of a heathen...I believes in God and doing good works to earn a reward.

I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior because one person said that Jesus would send the Holy spirit and He would be my best friend and explain the Bible to me in a way I could not understand alone. He would help me overcome sin. He would comfort me when I am sad. He would love me always.

You see I was Buddhist and my behaviour was more righteous than many Christians. I had a car and would take. People on errands for free, I tutored,i gave alms to the poor, I comforted those grieving, I prayed to God as my heavenly father....why did I need Jesus, when so many Christians were hypocrites?

That's what I thought but God called me. Someone gave me a bible in high school and I read it at least 3 times the first year. I asked questions but most high schoolers who claimed to be Christians hadn't even read it once. I talked to pastors, but they didnt answer my questions but wanted to preach about Jesus. They never really listened or prayed with me...they prayed for me but there is a difference.

Anyway, I know now the difference between a heathen faith in God the Father and a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

Many people have a heathen faith and not a saving faith.

.
Makes me think of Patrick Swayze....he was a Buddhist and toward the end of his life from Pancreatic cancer I watched an interview with him and he was terrified of death......I truly felt sorry for him and wished there was a way I could have witnessed to him....as far as I know he died that way......tragic........

Glad you found Jesus.....!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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My daughter was Navy/Marine corpsman out of Pendleton for 7 years. Did a tour in Iraq, Al Asaad. She taught me that once one becomes a marine, they are always a marine. Her military bearing taught me much in respecting our armed forces... MUCH MORE. So, my appreciation may be a bit biased :).
I was in Pendleton myself.......and did my boot camp in San Diego MCRD....and ITS in San Onefre......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Forgiveness is a done deal - either believe it or don't believe it.

On the subject of forgiveness that we have in Christ now because of His precious Blood...here is what the scriptures say.....sometimes the truth in the gospel of the grace of Christ "conflicts" with what we have been religiously taught.

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

perfect =
The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present time.
It is continuously happening in the present.

passive = voice =
action is happening to you....you are not doing it

Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous completed state and that was put on them....not something they did.

Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

We have redemption = present continuous action...so this means we have present continuous forgiveness of our sins
...

and look...that grace stuff shows up again!...
it's all according to the riches of our loving Father's grace that He has given to us in Christ our Lord.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Same thing here too...present continuous action = forgiveness of sins


Redemption!..we have been bought with the precious Blood of Jesus... Let's honor His work.



Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!

Walk in the knowledge of your forgiveness in Christ and in that security we will experience maturity.
One thing that always bothered me was the fact that NO WHERE do we see Peter repenting openly for denying the Lord......as a matter of fact....unless I am forgetting something....or overlooking something do we have one place where anyone in the New Testament repented on record? <--other than for salvation
 
Dec 17, 2013
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OK, however I would like to make a point, if I rob the bank and kill the security guard tomorrow, that sin was not forgiven when I became a Christian many years ago, the potential for that sin to be forgiven occurred many years ago when I became a Christian, however that sin was not forgiven as an automatic result of my salvation. At this point in my life I have asked for forgiveness of all known sin, so I am forgiven. If I wake up tomorrow and decide to commit some serious sin, it has not already been forgiven, if I truly repent then I could be forgiven. If I am forgiven for all sins of the future without me personally repenting and asking forgiveness, then I might as well enjoy the desires of the flesh because it does not make any difference anyway...I get to have my cake and eat it to. A Christian is forgiven of sins PAST, and if they commit a sin they can ask and be forgiven, however there is no automatic forgiveness of future sins.
This is why I think that God gives us our youth to make mistakes,after that we ain't got no excuse.

The people who say that you can go all of your life making mistakes that you know are wrong and you can avoid making them with self control?....yep.. those people?....they profit from telling people that.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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SOOOOO many people overlook the verb tenses of the Greek N.T.......man.....it settles a bunch of questions and puts to bed a bunch of false theology....

Forgiveness is a done deal - either believe it or don't believe it.

On the subject of forgiveness that we have in Christ now because of His precious Blood...here is what the scriptures say.....sometimes the truth in the gospel of the grace of Christ "conflicts" with what we have been religiously taught.

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

perfect =
The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present time.
It is continuously happening in the present.

passive = voice =
action is happening to you....you are not doing it

Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous completed state and that was put on them....not something they did.

Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

We have redemption = present continuous action...so this means we have present continuous forgiveness of our sins
...

and look...that grace stuff shows up again!...
it's all according to the riches of our loving Father's grace that He has given to us in Christ our Lord.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Same thing here too...present continuous action = forgiveness of sins


Redemption!..we have been bought with the precious Blood of Jesus... Let's honor His work.



Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!

Walk in the knowledge of your forgiveness in Christ and in that security we will experience maturity.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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One thing that always bothered me was the fact that NO WHERE do we see Peter repenting openly for denying the Lord......as a matter of fact....unless I am forgetting something....or overlooking something do we have one place where anyone in the New Testament repented on record? <--other than for salvation
Not in the religiously taught definition of repentance but in the New Covenant way - there is plenty of true repentance being manifested by others to rely completely on Christ for life and living and for salvation.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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God's sheep hear His Voice...

"Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29)

"If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1John 1:9)

"He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy." (Pro 28:13)

"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgave the iniquity of my sin." (Psalms 32:5)

" And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." (1John 2:3)
" He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1John 2:4)

"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. (Matt 6:9-13)

"For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Rom 10:10) - (context Jesus is only your Lord if you follow him).

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." (Acts 3:19)

"And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments." (Dan 9:4)

"And they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins." (Matt 3:6 )