The Rapture

[garee]

When reading scripture, the details are important.

1 Thes.4:16 refers to the "trumpet call of God." 1 Cor.15:52 identifies that trumpet call as "the last trumpet"

Matt.24:31 says that he will send his angels out "with a loud trumpet call."
Regarding this, it is important to not just apply these trumpets as being the same just because the word "trumpet" is being used. For there are many trumpets throughout scripture that represent different events.

1 Thes.4:16 takes place at the "last trumpet"

Matt.24:31 the angels are sent out with a "Loud trumpet."

Because of the word "trumpet" this is the reason that many expositors make the claim that the 7th trumpet as being the "last trumpet" and because of this they claim the 7th trumpet as being the last trumpet. In doing this they ignore the fact that the 7th trumpet is a judgment of Wrath and there is nothing at all mentioned in the context anywhere of the church being gathered. So they apply it simply because the word "trumpet" is used.

It as the bride of Christ will be gathered in the new heavens and earth .(Not under the Sun and moon.) Its all one and the same trump(voice of God) . The tribulation that began when the veil was rent as to the final judgment of the unbelievers and the day of the second resurrection for those who will not come into judgment occur simultaneously in the twinkling of the eye. .Five times in John 6 does God use the term last day . The Sun and Moon are now under the feet of His bride the church as shown in another parable in Revelation 12,

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

It’s the end of time the beginning of the new heavens and earth

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[samuel23]

Hello PW,



It shocks them because it is not supported by the word of God. The end of the age is a one time event which has the Lord returning, physically and visually to the earth. At which time He will establish his millennial kingdom.

Jesus said, "when they say that the Messiah is out in the desert, don't go look. Or He's in the inner room, don't believe it." These would infer his literal, visual return. The reference to the lightning is in reference to it's suddenness and the fact that no one would miss it. No one will have to ask, "is the Lord here." It will be a major event. Scripture never states that Jesus would return as a flash of light like He appeared to Paul.

Jesus is coming to gather the church, followed by his wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. After the 7th bowl is poured out, then Jesus will return to end the age and establish His millennial period.

All that you are doing is continuing to spread false teachings. you twist and bend scripture to say things that are true. And that's the truth!

You are actually scripturally correct in most of your writings, however you are off because you believe there are two returns of Christ, pre-trib and then post-trib. If you eliminate the pre-trib idea then the tribulation Jesus described becomes the wrath of Satan not God ,and after that persecution by Satan then the church is raptured and then the wrath of God ensues. If you use deductive reasoning it becomes apparent that Paul joined a post-trib believing church and was therefore post-trib himself and taught post-trib in the Thess letters. That is why in 2Thess2 Paul said the church could not be gathered until AFTER the revealing of the Antichrist, which of course means after the Tribulation.

 

[popeye]

You are actually scripturally correct in most of your writings, however you are off because you believe there are two returns of Christ, pre-trib and then post-trib. If you eliminate the pre-trib idea then the tribulation Jesus described becomes the wrath of Satan not God ,and after that persecution by Satan then the church is raptured and then the wrath of God ensues. If you use deductive reasoning it becomes apparent that Paul joined a post-trib believing church and was therefore post-trib himself and taught post-trib in the Thess letters. That is why in 2Thess2 Paul said the church could not be gathered until AFTER the revealing of the Antichrist, which of course means after the Tribulation.

Read rev 14

See that gathering BEFORE the 2nd coming?

Now put me down for 3 "returns".

And note,the last one He touches earth WITH his saints.

You are reading for terms instead of content

 

[PlainWord]

2 As to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we beg you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as though from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one destined for destruction.

So: Church, don't freak out, Jesus has not come back yet. We won't be regathered until 1) the rebellion has taken place 2) the Lawless one is revealed

4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, declaring himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that I told you these things when I was still with you?

How is he revealed? He sits in the Temple of God claiming to be God. As per verses 1-4, you won't be regathered until he has been revealed. SO: you will be regathered sometime after he has sat down in the temple impersonating God.

6 And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed when his time comes. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who now restrains it is removed. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus[d] will destroy[e] with the breath of his mouth, annihilating him by the manifestation of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working of Satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, 10 and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion, leading them to believe what is false, 12 so that all who have not believed the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned.13 But we must always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters[f] beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits[g] for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14 For this purpose he called you through our proclamation of the good news,[h] so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers and sisters,[i] stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter.
16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and through grace gave us eternal comfort and good hope, 17 comfort your hearts and strengthen them in every good work and word.

Nowhere in the rest of the chapter does it suggest, intimate, or declare that the Church will be regathered when the restrainer is removed. Nowhere.

In fact the total contrary, that in the day Jesus comes he will destroy the Antichrist, 'annihilating him by the manifestation of his coming', and the same day we will be regathered.

Man of Sin = Titus (He took away the Law by destroying the temple). His troops made a sacrifice to him and bowed down declaring him above all.

Restrainer = His father, Vespasian (Titus could not come until Nero died and Vespasian returned to Rome as Caesar where he sent his son, Titus to finish the job)

 

[Muzungu256]

you are probably honest in your mind mr ahwatukee but i just cant see so many divisions in the bible its like Jesus is telling His disciples one thing then a few years later its a different story revealed to paul i cant believe it...................
also the church israel distinction whats that church is israel - israel is church

 

[serpentdove]

... israel is church

2 Ti 3:7

Recommended study:

Learn the bible in 24 Hours Introduction by Chuck Missler

 

[Muzungu256]

2 Ti 3:7

Recommended study:

Learn the bible in 24 Hours Introduction by Chuck Missler

arent you the same person who thinks God is timebound??????????????? maybe dont roll eyes at me?????? also chuck missler falsely predicted y2k so i dont put much value on him.........

 

[serpentdove]

[Is God Outside of Time? Not according to the Bible. By Bob Enyart ] arent you the same person who thinks God is timebound?

Ad infinitum Eph 4:14

 

[J7]

2 Ti 3:7

Recommended study:

Learn the bible in 24 Hours Introduction by Chuck Missler

Missler - false teacher

Church IS Israel

Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[J7]

Let's break that down in slow motion frames eh?

If you belong to Christ ............. = CHURCH

Then you are Abraham's seed ............. = ISRAEL


IF YOU ARE THE CHURCH YOU ARE ISRAEL

 

[VCO]

can someone point out to me what is the difference between 1 thessalonians 4:16 and matthew 24:29-31

because why would Jesus say different things to the disciples then later on through paul switch His message??????????

Ahwatukee and I both addressed that question within the last two days. Read our recent posts, and remember, HIS APPEARING in the Clouds to call out HIS Bride, IS NOT THE SECOND COMING. The APPEARING can happen as much as seven years prior to the Second coming. IT IS NOT A COMING UNTIL HIS FEET TOUCH THE GROUND, and Prophecy tells us that will be on the Mount of Olives. The Second Coming will be Seven years after a Dictator (possibly the ruler of the E.U.) orchestrates a Seven Year Peace Treaty with ISRAEL and her Enemies; giving ISRAEL permission to build the Third Temple on the Temple Mount.

 

[valiant]

Read rev 14

See that gathering BEFORE the 2nd coming?

Now put me down for 3 "returns".

And note,the last one He touches earth WITH his saints.

You are reading for terms instead of content

Rev 14.14-20 speaks clearly of the second Coming of Christ, as does Rev 6.12-17; 16.17-21; & 19.14-21. Each of them thus ends a separate vision. See also 20.1-15 which is also a separate Vision (cf 20.1 with 9.1).

This brings out that the seals, the trumpets and the bowls are to be seen as also contemporary, not consecutive. The seventh seal includes the seven trumpets, and opens a deeper level of what is in the seven seals on parts of the earth,.

Thus Revelation is split into a number of contemporary visons. It is not consecutive.

 

[valiant]

Where does it say Jesus Christ touches earth with His saints? You are dreaming.

 

[PlainWord]

Ahwatukee and I both addressed that question within the last two days. Read our recent posts, and remember, HIS APPEARING in the Clouds to call out HIS Bride, IS NOT THE SECOND COMING. The APPEARING can happen as much as seven years prior to the Second coming. IT IS NOT A COMING UNTIL HIS FEET TOUCH THE GROUND, and Prophecy tells us that will be on the Mount of Olives. The Second Coming will be Seven years after a Dictator (possibly the ruler of the E.U.) orchestrates a Seven Year Peace Treaty with ISRAEL and her Enemies; giving ISRAEL permission to build the Third Temple on the Temple Mount.

Guys,

I just put the Brooklyn Bridge on the market. Anyone interested?

 

[Muzungu256]

Where does it say Jesus Christ touches earth with His saints? You are dreaming.

and more important where does it say Jesus Christ comes back twice????????? once for church just to appear then with church back lol

ps: valiant friend look your mailbox.........

 

[valiant]

Ahwatukee and I both addressed that question within the last two days. Read our recent posts, and remember, HIS APPEARING in the Clouds to call out HIS Bride, IS NOT THE SECOND COMING.

Of course it is. It is the commencement of His final immediate judgment.

The APPEARING can happen as much as seven years prior to the Second coming.

You can't produce a single verse to prove it.

IT IS NOT A COMING UNTIL HIS FEET TOUCH THE GROUND,

Where s a NT verse which says that His feet will touch the ground?

and Prophecy tells us that will be on the Mount of Olives.

Prophecy tells us nothing of the kind. It tells us that YAHWEH will take His stand there. And as always God does not literally come to earth. He takes His metaphorical stance there to exercise His judgment.

The Second Coming will be Seven years after a Dictator (possibly the ruler of the E.U.) orchestrates a Seven Year Peace Treaty with ISRAEL and her Enemies; giving ISRAEL permission to build the Third Temple on the Temple Mount.

Not this error again. There is no seven year dictatorship mentioned in Scripture, and no mention of a third temple. God confirms covenant with His people (in Daniel covenant always refers to God's coventant.

 

[serpentdove]

where does it say Jesus Christ comes back twice?

1 Thess 4:17 (clouds, his feet do not touch the earth, rapture), Zech 14:4 (fault line waiting for a footprint, second coming).

 

[PlainWord]

1 Thess 4:17 (clouds, his feet do not touch the earth, rapture), Zech 14:4 (fault line waiting for a footprint, second coming).

[FONT=&quot]3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.

His Second Coming listed in Mt 24 was just like this only this time, everyone saw the light, even those who pierced Him.[/FONT]

 

[serpentdove]

3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”
Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.

His Second Coming listed in Mt 24 was just like this only this time, everyone saw the light, even those who pierced Him.

Eph 4:14

See:

What is the preterist view of the end times?

 

[valiant]

1 Thess 4:17 (clouds, his feet do not touch the earth, rapture), Zech 14:4 (fault line waiting for a footprint, second coming).

The first is Jesus Christ at the end of time, the second is YHWH in judgment and is not literal.