Not By Works

Grace777x70 · Jun 19, 2017

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

The prodigal son is talking about all those in the world that are dead and when they come to the Father - they are born-again.

The earth is the Lord's and the people that are in it.

Psalm 24:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The earth is the LORD'S, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.

It is the Lord that gives the spirit of man and comes from the Father of spirits. Heb. 12:9

God came unto His own - and His own did not receive Him.

Quote:

These scriptures explain that all people belong to the Father to begin with and all people will be looked at through what Christ has already done for them. Some will receive Him, some will not.

It is interesting that when the father ran to the son and "fell on his neck" - this is the exact same Greek word for when the Holy spirit "fell on" Cornelius and his household when they heard the message of Christ.

All of heaven including the Holy Spirit rushes to testify of the awesome work of Christ when they believe that all sins are forgiven in His completed work.

Acts 10:43-44 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

UnderGrace · Jun 19, 2017

What you do not understand is that words have multiple meanings, however it does NOT mean, the word means all of those things as once, the word must be understood within context.

Whoever has taught you this doctrine, centered around the word "believe", does not understand basic linguistics

Eternal salvation IS Truth,

Seven eternal promises to the Born Again Believer:

For a Christian to lose their salvation and be expelled from the kingdom…

1. God would have to forsake us, when he said he wouldn’t (Heb 13:5)
2. God would have to cast us out, when he said he wouldn’t (John 6:37)
3. God would have to condemn us, when he said he wouldn’t (Rom 8:1,34)
4. God would have to withdraw his Spirit, when he said he wouldn’t (John 14:16-17)
5. God would have to remember our sins, when he said he wouldn’t (Jer 31:34, Heb 10:17)
6. God would have to forget that we are his children, when he said he wouldn’t (Is 49:15)
7. God would have to blot our names out of the book of life, when he said he wouldn’t (Rev 3:5)

FranC said:

FranC · Jun 19, 2017

graceNpeace said:

Yes. The cheap gracers love to point this out.

Unfortunately, THIS is also misunderstood.

If you check you'll find that the prodigal son got ALL THE INHERITANCE he was EVER goind to get when he asked his father for it and left.

He had ceased being a RECEIVING SON at that point.

If you leave God, you are no longer considered a SON by Him.
Persons who do not have the Holy Spirit ARE NOT SONS OF GOD:

Do you think you could live a life of sin and STILL BE A SON OF GOD???

Can these go to heaven?
1 Corinthians 5:9-12
Galatians 5:17-21
Ephesians 5:1-6

"Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things, THE WRATH OF GOD comes upon THE SONS of DISOBEDIENCE."

And keep reading a bit more....

Instead of listening to FALSE PROPHETS and TEACHERS, you really should be reading the New Testament for yourself.

Grace777x70 · Jun 19, 2017

UnderGrace said:

It says I can't rep you now so I owe you one. Great post about the integrity of God and His true gospel of the grace of Christ.

Amen...and Jesus would have to be a liar when He said " The Holy Spirit will be in you forever". John 14:16 - He is NOT a liar. We can trust Him.

There are so many unbelieving believers that need to water down the gospel in order for them to create and maintain their own self-righteousness. It is a complete denial of the work of Christ on the cross and resurrection.

It's no wonder Jesus said this "When I come back will I find faith in the earth?"

We say Yes Lord - we believe You and what you have done for us! We have a great salvation "in You alone" and we have a good, good, loving Father.

FranC · Jun 19, 2017

Katy-follower said:

Really?

Please Read Mathew 5:21-48

Pay attention to Mathew 5:45

Could you come back and tell us what it says?
It would be interesting to hear how you understand this and how twisted you could make it.

It's JESUS, the one whom you claim to love, telling his disciples HOW to act, and HOW to behave and then He says that

IN ORDER TO BE SONS OF GOD, we must be do these things.

"IN ORDER THAT you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven".

What does IN ORDER THAT refer to, as you understand it??

FranC · Jun 19, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

typical, try to explain something you do not understand, and then because you do not understand, make a huge mistake like this.

No Fran, eternal salvationists do not have an issue with the word believe, that is utter nonsense, The only reason you think we do Is because you do not understand us, like your buddies who are here with you, or who have departed, you think you know. Then you come of with these straw man arguments which you can not even support.

if anything, true faith ( Biblical Belief) supports our view more than you self righteous view.

1. We believe in all God says. Including the part which says even after we are saved we are still (if left to our own merit) unworthy of Gods love, why? Because God required perfection. Only zchrist lived that requirement

2. We believe in eternal security, because our faith is in God. Not how good we are, how well we can maintain our faith, or how many good deeds we do.

3. We take Gods definition of sin, not a legalists watered down definition, thus we see our sin, where they have to hide it,, why? Because of our faith in God being a loving father, not a spirit of fear.

4. We take john at his word, knowing we have eternal life (security) is the basis for remaining in faith (Biblical Belief). If you do not understand eternal security how can you claim according to John, have the power to continue use to believe? You can't, all you have is fear, or a false hope. In which you have to judge people who truely trust God, which you do all the time.

good luck with your wish washy faith, I will continue to base my faith on my eternal hope and eternal life on which God, who can not lie, promised before time began

Too much talk.
Not enough scripture.

Grace777x70 · Jun 19, 2017

Sons of disobedience are those in the world ( that all belong to the Father to begin with ) are the ones who refuse to believe in Christ for salvation.

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved... (Ephesians 2:1-5 ESV)

eternally-gratefull · Jun 19, 2017

UnderGrace said:

He would also also be seen as a liar

he sad we have eternal life, when we do not
he said we will never die, when we may still yet fie
he said we would never hunger or thirst, when we will
he said his food will endure forever And if we eat it we will live forever when that is possibly not true
he said he will raise a s, when that man hit not be true,
he said as long as he lives, we will also, when again, that may not be true (He will live forever, we may not)

the workers do do not understand, the profess faith in Christ, but in reality, they have no faith in Christ, their faith is in self preserving these things. Not God keeping his promises

eternally-gratefull · Jun 19, 2017

FranC said:

Typical, you can not refute what I said, so you just babble..but hey, that was S good for new people who may be reading this.. exposes who you are

FranC · Jun 19, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

It's not up TO YOU to question my faith.

It seems to me that you should be worried about YOUR soul, not mine.

I asked a question in my post which you did not bother to answer.
Know why?

You can't answer it because an honest answer would go against all the FALSE doctrine you believe.

So, instead of all this chatter, how about answering my question and post some scripture like I do.

Here's my post again:

Who said Christ's work is not suficient??

HE DID IT ALL.
He did all He said He would.
He did all He came here to do.

Now, the question is, did He come here ONLY to die on the cross?
Or did He also come here to set up the Kingdom of God on Earth? John 3:3,5

Really, please answer this.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 19, 2017

FranC said:

Ah yes, Joining your borothers again with slander.

Grace is not cheap. It Cost the father his son, and it cost the son his 30 plus year life on earth and the cross.

Thats not cheap.

FranC · Jun 19, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Correct.

Whoever HAS faith.

NOT whoever HAD faith.

If you notice, words pertaining to faith are Always in the pesent tense.
We must have this faith when we die.
We must be in God's favor when we die.

(not years ago and then are not with the Holy Spirit at the time of Death because we lived a life of sin.
I'm posting again 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 Romans 13:9-14 and more)

FranC · Jun 19, 2017

notuptome said:

I didn't hear Jesus say anything about a millenniel reign-

Please use scripture.

I quoted John 3:3, 5

JESUS said the Kingdom of God can be SEEN (now) by those who are born again.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 19, 2017

FranC said:

Now your a hypocrite. You are free to question others, but its not ok to question yours.

I asked you some questions,, You should have showed us your faith by answering them

I answered the question with a question, But you as usual refuse to answer.

I did reply to this,

You said you have faith, If you had faith in all God said, You could answer my questions. But you can not, Because you KNOW you do not have faith.

Here is my answer.

1. yes God is able to COMPLETELY save that which was lost, He promised to and he has the power to.
2. Yes God can and will complete what he did. It is not based on me
3. Yes God HAS PERFECTED forever that which was lost. He has the power.

So lets put our faith together. Who really has faith in God, You or I?

As you can see, It is not I who has to worry about faith. My faith is in God keeping his promises.

You claim you have faith in God, doing all he promised, prove it..

FranC · Jun 19, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Sometimes some ask - "So what happens if we no longer believe?"

True biblical faith of which the verb is called "believing" is of the heart - not in the mind per se although the renewing of the mind is needed for growing up in the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This implies that anyone can stop believing even though they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. We must realize there is a difference between the heart of man and the mind of man.

We believe in the heart - not in the head. People can be messed up in their heads because of wrong thinking and false teachings and be sick in their thinking. This doesn't negate the work of Christ in their hearts - in their spirit where they are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6;17

At what point does Jesus leave you and separate Himself from you? He did say that He would never leave you nor forsake you.

If someone could at any time "change their believing in their heart" - then that means that Paul and all the other Christians that have gone to heaven can now as an act of their own mind choose to not believe in Christ.

It's foolishness and it is a deception from the enemy to get us "working to keep our salvation". Christ Himself is our salvation - not us.

Can any Christian that is with the Lord now in heaven choose to not believe in Him in his heart? Think this through. Does he have a will to "not believe" in Chrsit now?

No - belief in Christ and true faith is born in the heart of man and we are then born-again and have been created a new creation in Christ - sealed with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13

Did you just say that someone in heaven could CHANGE THEIR MIND?

eternally-gratefull · Jun 19, 2017

FranC said:

See here is your problem.

If it is whoever HAS faith, then whenever some HAS saving faith, they are given ALL thet God promised.

WHich means of ANY OF THEM CAN BE LOST, God lied.

So again, Who do you have faith in? Gods ability to keep his promise

Or your faith in yourself to continue to have faith.

I think it is there for all the world to see..

God can not say, If you have faith, I give you these eternal things But then one day, say your faiht is no longer enough, I take them from you, That makes God a liar. AND YOU KNOW IT.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 19, 2017

FranC said:

Yes it can, And in spite of your slanderous ways we know it and see it,

But I now, You think you do and we do not.

Who died and made you God? to know a persons heart?

PennEd · Jun 19, 2017

FranC said:

Hey Fran. Welcome back. Haven't seen you in awhile. Hope you are well.

The context of the Matthew verses you cite I believe are to be understood in the light of verse 20. One verse BEFORE those you listed:
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The whole point is IF you were to be able to exceed THE MOST RIGHTEOUS (in their eyes) PEOPLE ON EARTH, the Pharisees, you could then enter heaven because of YOUR righteousness.

The Pharisees DID follow the Law better than ANYONE, yet we all know that got them NOTHING.

Jesus then follows with extreme examples of just how righteous you HAVE to be in order for YOUR righteousness to qualify you for heaven.

NO ONE but Him was ever able to accomplish following the Law perfectly. PLEASE. Do NOT rely on YOUR righteousness, YOUR ability to follow the Law to obtain the free gift He has given you with His Blood. Please see how truly offensive this is to God.

gb9 · Jun 19, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

COME ON E.G., YOU KNOW CERTAIN ONES ON HERE DO NOT ANSWER US REPROBATE SINNERS. THEY ARE HERE TO " HELP " AND " SHOW US TRUTH" . WE HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER THEM. OH, EXCEPT THOSE PESKY FACTS THAT THEY DO NOT LIKE, BECAUSE FACTS INTERFEAR WITH THE WORKS-BASED AGENDA THEY ARE PUSHING.

PeterJens · Jun 19, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

These two statements are judgemental comments. Who can say what anothers problem
is. We can describe a problem of perception or the issue with sin and the resulting need for
repentance confession and seeking forgiveness through the cross, but very often people
express only part of the issue or may use words we do really understand.

It is up to the individual to apply it to their own lives, else it becomes a dictatorial statement.
The Lord seems to always declare what is going on, and awaits for people to agree with Him.

Now some claim this is the definition of repentance, yet they are happy to do the opposite
when dealing with others. Is this not hypocritical, and shows a double standard?

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