The Works Controversy
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There are some people that believe we must do good works in order to be saved. There are others that believe we do good works from the life of Christ manifested in our lives.
One says good works are needed "in order" to be saved and to maintained being saved.
These are the ones that say we lose our salvation and that our loving Father sends His beloved children to hell despite what Jesus has done for us.
The other says we are saved by grace through faith in Christ's work alone and His life in us will bear the fruit of His good works being displayed. Eph. 2:8-10
These believe Jesus when He said "The Holy Spirit will be in us forever." John 14:16
Only one of them is the actual gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
One says good works are needed "in order" to be saved and to maintained being saved.
These are the ones that say we lose our salvation and that our loving Father sends His beloved children to hell despite what Jesus has done for us.
The other says we are saved by grace through faith in Christ's work alone and His life in us will bear the fruit of His good works being displayed. Eph. 2:8-10
These believe Jesus when He said "The Holy Spirit will be in us forever." John 14:16
Only one of them is the actual gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
At page 596 I asked for a tl;dr summary, here is what dcon so graciously shared:
believers-->saved by faith and faith alone, works/fruit a result of salvation
cake takers and workers for--->saved by their works, kept saved by their works as the need to help JESUS finish what he started
Jesus is clear...
I will finish what I started
I will lose nothing the Father hath given me but will raise it up the last day
I will never leave thee nor forsake thee
Jesus is the beginner and finisher of our faith
He that believes on the son is having everlasting life
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us
believers-->saved by faith and faith alone, works/fruit a result of salvation
cake takers and workers for--->saved by their works, kept saved by their works as the need to help JESUS finish what he started
Jesus is clear...
I will finish what I started
I will lose nothing the Father hath given me but will raise it up the last day
I will never leave thee nor forsake thee
Jesus is the beginner and finisher of our faith
He that believes on the son is having everlasting life
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us
I won't try to summarize the thread, but I'll try to summarize the Bible:
[34] But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sad'ducees, they came together.
[35] And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:34-40 RSV
[34] But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sad'ducees, they came together.
[35] And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:34-40 RSV
E
Sure. Someone wanted to meet those people who do think it is by works only. And then hundreds and hundreds of pages of people arguing over agreeing together. (No one has stepped forward to claim it is only by works yet.)
Welcome to BDF. This is what we do.
Welcome to BDF. This is what we do.
No one has ever argued for or against "works only" gospel.
That thread is about a gospel faith alone, vs a gospel of works of any type.. including faith plus works..
Kinda like:
1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
John 3:16
For God So Loved the World
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
(The whole Gospel
)I think the idea is that we are already saved, and so eternal life is assured, so therefore we do not live in fear.
That frees us up to be fruitful.
A fruitful tree has fruit everywhere.
As you say, when we mess up, we regret it.
Again, we clean the slate and concentrate on positive stuff. Although if we really listened to God properly we would not mess up. Many the time I have heard God and not had enough faith to obey him.
None of us have any real idea of what it was like to live under the Law. It can't have been much fun; you'd spend your whole time checking yourself.
I think God destined us for much greater things than that.
That frees us up to be fruitful.
A fruitful tree has fruit everywhere.
As you say, when we mess up, we regret it.
Again, we clean the slate and concentrate on positive stuff. Although if we really listened to God properly we would not mess up. Many the time I have heard God and not had enough faith to obey him.
None of us have any real idea of what it was like to live under the Law. It can't have been much fun; you'd spend your whole time checking yourself.
I think God destined us for much greater things than that.
D
Being the "she" who "does not even understand," how's this?
First post on the thread. Yup. Pretty much it's "not by works." Pretty much not a single person has said it is by works in 500+ pages, and yet "She does not even understand."
I rest my case. Just proved it again. People will actually argue over agreeing with each other.
Go figure.
First post on the thread. Yup. Pretty much it's "not by works." Pretty much not a single person has said it is by works in 500+ pages, and yet "She does not even understand."
I rest my case. Just proved it again. People will actually argue over agreeing with each other.
Go figure.
E
Being the "she" who "does not even understand," how's this?
First post on the thread. Yup. Pretty much it's "not by works." Pretty much not a single person has said it is by works in 500+ pages, and yet "She does not even understand."
I rest my case. Just proved it again. People will actually argue over agreeing with each other.
Go figure.
First post on the thread. Yup. Pretty much it's "not by works." Pretty much not a single person has said it is by works in 500+ pages, and yet "She does not even understand."
I rest my case. Just proved it again. People will actually argue over agreeing with each other.
Go figure.
You post said no one said WORKS ALONE. That was my argument,
Now you changed it, and said by works and left out the word alone, Did you do this on purpose, or was your original post a mistake? .
ps. Many people in that thread preach works, Whether they admit it or not is not the question.
But that does not matter,
YOUR POST SAID, NOT BY WORKS ALONE. or ALONE BY WORKS
here, lets see it again.
Sure. Someone wanted to meet those people who do think it is by works only. And then hundreds and hundreds of pages of people arguing over agreeing together. (No one has stepped forward to claim it is only by works yet.)
Welcome to BDF. This is what we do.
1. Apologize? because you did not mean to say WORKS ONLY, or ONLY BY WORKS. but you just meant to say works.
2. Admit you meant to say works ONLY and ONLY by works, in which case you can apologize to me, because I was right.
3. Continue you war against me, and continue to be proven to be dishonest..