Not By Works
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Well ironically I would answer: What say the bible and my spirit which is given to the Holy Spirit to speak from. Smile.
Our souls has been in control for a long time; Right?!!. Even when one is willing to consecrate himself to God, he still may hold the thought that it is his work now and that he has to complete what he is consecrating in order to please God. Many believers do not know how deeply the cross should work, working even to the extent that the believer should reject his ability to make his own living. Many believers do not see the reality of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Neither do they know how great an authority He should have, to the extent that the mind, will, and feelings of the whole being should be under His subjection until there is no self-reliance at all.
Unless it is so, the Holy Spirit cannot do the work He wants to do. The greatest temptation a believer who is diligently seeking God faces, is that of using his own ability to will and do God's work and not humbly waiting and relying on the Holy Spirit to move.The calling of the cross of the Lord Jesus is for us to hate our soul-life so that we find the opportunity to lose it and not preserve it. The Lord's intention is that the self must and should be sacrificed and offered up completely so that the Holy Spirit may work. All opinion, work, and thinking ability in the soul-life must be willing to be put to death so that we can regain His true life by the life and guidance of the Holy Spirit. (Now, this is not to suggest there is no thinking in man, but it must be governed first by the spirit and then he can use his intellect properly and should, then, use it exceedingly well in effort). The Lord spoke of the matter of our hating or loving our soul-life. The soul is self-loving. If we do not from our heart truly hate our natural life, we cannot have a real living in the Holy Spirit. If a believer has not seen this, he will not be fearful of his self and his own intelligence and will not completely rely on, wait upon, and look to the Holy Spirit. These are the primary requirements for the spiritual life.
The war between the soul and the spirit goes on secretly and without ceasing inside the believer. The soul, on behalf of the self, wants to be the head and act by itself. The spirit, on behalf of God, wants to gain all and be the master with full authority. In this situation, if the spirit has not gained the victory, the soul takes the lead in everything. If a believer thus allows himself to be the master and expects the Holy Spirit to be his help and bless his work, he will unavoidably lose the spiritual fruit. If we do not reject our self and lose our soul-life, but instead follow its idea, opinion, and suggestion, and if we do not constantly deny its right and unconditionally and unreservedly put it in the ashes, without longing for what we have lost, we cannot expect to have a spiritual life and work that pleases God. Unless we willingly deliver the power, the eagerness, the liveliness, the running, etc., of the soul-life to the cross and maintain a steady attitude of hating the soul-life, it will seize the chance to rise up.
The reason we have so many failures in our spiritual life is that the aspect of the soul has not been dealt with thoroughly, while we still hope to overcome it by gaining more of the Holy Spirit and power. If the soul-life is not lost through death but is allowed to be mixed with the spirit, the believers will continue to fail just as before. If our life does not completely manifest the power of the Holy Spirit of God, before long we will have more failures due to the wisdom and opinions of man.This natural soul-life of ours is an obstacle to our spirit-life. It will never be satisfied with God alone; it always wants to add something other than God. Thus, it never has a moment of peace. Before the believer's soul-life has been dealt with, it lives on excitement and feelings. These, after all, are very changeable, so the believer's living also is changed accordingly. This explains why the believer's living is like waves, always going up and down.
When the believer allows his spiritual experiences to be mixed with his soul-life, his experience often becomes unstable so that he is not qualified to be a leading one. This soul-life which has not been lost is constantly luring man to leave the center of his spirit. Sometimes it is the effect of emotion that greatly hurts the freedom and consciousness of the spirit. Joy and grief cause the believer to lose his self-control and to feel that he has been unrestrained and has had a hard time constraining himself. Sometimes it is the extra activities of the mind that cause the quiet spiritual life to be affected and become disorderly. No doubt it is good to desire spiritual knowledge. However, if it goes outside the spiritual measure, what is gained is only letters and not the spirit. This is why many workers, although they are preaching the most wonderful truth, are filled with coldness and deadness. Many believers who seek after a spiritual life have a common experience, the kind of experience that makes them groan: their soul and their spirit are not in unison. This means that the mind, will, and emotion of the soul often times rebel against the spirit by not obeying the command of the spirit. They often want to act alone apart from the spirit, contradicting the desire of the spirit. What is usually damaged by this kind of living is the spirit-life.
Therefore the teaching in Hebrews 4:12 is very important because it is precisely here that the Holy Spirit teaches us how to divide the soul from the spirit in our experience. The dividing of the soul from the spirit is not merely a doctrine; the believer must have and can have such an experience in life. What is the meaning of the dividing of the soul from the spirit? It is simply that, first, God by His Word and through His indwelling Spirit can differentiate experientially the function and expression of the soul from that of the spirit, teaching the believer to know what is the move of the spirit and what is the move of the soul. Second, the willingness of a believer to cooperate causes him experientially to have a pure spiritual life without being affected by the soul. In Hebrews 4, the Holy Spirit tells us of the function of the Lord Jesus as a High Priest toward the believers. Verse 12 says, "For the word of God is living and operative and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Verse 13 continues: "And there is no creature that is not manifest before Him, but all things are naked and laid bare to the eyes of Him to whom we are to give our account."
Here the Bible speaks of how the Lord Jesus is carrying out His work as the High Priest for the spirit and soul of the believers. The Holy Spirit here likens the believer to a sacrifice on the altar. During the Old Testament times, when people offered up sacrifices, the sacrifice was tied on the altar, killed by the priest with a sharp knife, and opened in half with the knife so that the joints and marrow were pierced and opened. All the insides that were hidden, which could not be seen or known before, were opened up and laid bare without concealment. After it was opened up, the priest would then burn the sacrifice with fire as an offering to God. The Holy Spirit uses this picture to illustrate the work of the Lord Jesus in the Christians and the experience gained in the Lord by the Christians. As the sacrifice was opened with the knife by the priest so that the joints and marrow were all laid bare, clearly separated in half, thus it will also be for the believers now. With the word of God, their soul is divided from their spirit by their High Priest, the Lord Jesus, so that the soul no longer affects the spirit and the spirit no longer is controlled by the soul. Thus, each has its own place, and one can distinguish what is from the soul and what is from the spirit without any confusion or mixture.
I hope this helps you understand my position scripturally, and spiritually.May God richly Bless you...
Our souls has been in control for a long time; Right?!!. Even when one is willing to consecrate himself to God, he still may hold the thought that it is his work now and that he has to complete what he is consecrating in order to please God. Many believers do not know how deeply the cross should work, working even to the extent that the believer should reject his ability to make his own living. Many believers do not see the reality of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Neither do they know how great an authority He should have, to the extent that the mind, will, and feelings of the whole being should be under His subjection until there is no self-reliance at all.
Unless it is so, the Holy Spirit cannot do the work He wants to do. The greatest temptation a believer who is diligently seeking God faces, is that of using his own ability to will and do God's work and not humbly waiting and relying on the Holy Spirit to move.The calling of the cross of the Lord Jesus is for us to hate our soul-life so that we find the opportunity to lose it and not preserve it. The Lord's intention is that the self must and should be sacrificed and offered up completely so that the Holy Spirit may work. All opinion, work, and thinking ability in the soul-life must be willing to be put to death so that we can regain His true life by the life and guidance of the Holy Spirit. (Now, this is not to suggest there is no thinking in man, but it must be governed first by the spirit and then he can use his intellect properly and should, then, use it exceedingly well in effort). The Lord spoke of the matter of our hating or loving our soul-life. The soul is self-loving. If we do not from our heart truly hate our natural life, we cannot have a real living in the Holy Spirit. If a believer has not seen this, he will not be fearful of his self and his own intelligence and will not completely rely on, wait upon, and look to the Holy Spirit. These are the primary requirements for the spiritual life.
The war between the soul and the spirit goes on secretly and without ceasing inside the believer. The soul, on behalf of the self, wants to be the head and act by itself. The spirit, on behalf of God, wants to gain all and be the master with full authority. In this situation, if the spirit has not gained the victory, the soul takes the lead in everything. If a believer thus allows himself to be the master and expects the Holy Spirit to be his help and bless his work, he will unavoidably lose the spiritual fruit. If we do not reject our self and lose our soul-life, but instead follow its idea, opinion, and suggestion, and if we do not constantly deny its right and unconditionally and unreservedly put it in the ashes, without longing for what we have lost, we cannot expect to have a spiritual life and work that pleases God. Unless we willingly deliver the power, the eagerness, the liveliness, the running, etc., of the soul-life to the cross and maintain a steady attitude of hating the soul-life, it will seize the chance to rise up.
The reason we have so many failures in our spiritual life is that the aspect of the soul has not been dealt with thoroughly, while we still hope to overcome it by gaining more of the Holy Spirit and power. If the soul-life is not lost through death but is allowed to be mixed with the spirit, the believers will continue to fail just as before. If our life does not completely manifest the power of the Holy Spirit of God, before long we will have more failures due to the wisdom and opinions of man.This natural soul-life of ours is an obstacle to our spirit-life. It will never be satisfied with God alone; it always wants to add something other than God. Thus, it never has a moment of peace. Before the believer's soul-life has been dealt with, it lives on excitement and feelings. These, after all, are very changeable, so the believer's living also is changed accordingly. This explains why the believer's living is like waves, always going up and down.
When the believer allows his spiritual experiences to be mixed with his soul-life, his experience often becomes unstable so that he is not qualified to be a leading one. This soul-life which has not been lost is constantly luring man to leave the center of his spirit. Sometimes it is the effect of emotion that greatly hurts the freedom and consciousness of the spirit. Joy and grief cause the believer to lose his self-control and to feel that he has been unrestrained and has had a hard time constraining himself. Sometimes it is the extra activities of the mind that cause the quiet spiritual life to be affected and become disorderly. No doubt it is good to desire spiritual knowledge. However, if it goes outside the spiritual measure, what is gained is only letters and not the spirit. This is why many workers, although they are preaching the most wonderful truth, are filled with coldness and deadness. Many believers who seek after a spiritual life have a common experience, the kind of experience that makes them groan: their soul and their spirit are not in unison. This means that the mind, will, and emotion of the soul often times rebel against the spirit by not obeying the command of the spirit. They often want to act alone apart from the spirit, contradicting the desire of the spirit. What is usually damaged by this kind of living is the spirit-life.
Therefore the teaching in Hebrews 4:12 is very important because it is precisely here that the Holy Spirit teaches us how to divide the soul from the spirit in our experience. The dividing of the soul from the spirit is not merely a doctrine; the believer must have and can have such an experience in life. What is the meaning of the dividing of the soul from the spirit? It is simply that, first, God by His Word and through His indwelling Spirit can differentiate experientially the function and expression of the soul from that of the spirit, teaching the believer to know what is the move of the spirit and what is the move of the soul. Second, the willingness of a believer to cooperate causes him experientially to have a pure spiritual life without being affected by the soul. In Hebrews 4, the Holy Spirit tells us of the function of the Lord Jesus as a High Priest toward the believers. Verse 12 says, "For the word of God is living and operative and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Verse 13 continues: "And there is no creature that is not manifest before Him, but all things are naked and laid bare to the eyes of Him to whom we are to give our account."
Here the Bible speaks of how the Lord Jesus is carrying out His work as the High Priest for the spirit and soul of the believers. The Holy Spirit here likens the believer to a sacrifice on the altar. During the Old Testament times, when people offered up sacrifices, the sacrifice was tied on the altar, killed by the priest with a sharp knife, and opened in half with the knife so that the joints and marrow were pierced and opened. All the insides that were hidden, which could not be seen or known before, were opened up and laid bare without concealment. After it was opened up, the priest would then burn the sacrifice with fire as an offering to God. The Holy Spirit uses this picture to illustrate the work of the Lord Jesus in the Christians and the experience gained in the Lord by the Christians. As the sacrifice was opened with the knife by the priest so that the joints and marrow were all laid bare, clearly separated in half, thus it will also be for the believers now. With the word of God, their soul is divided from their spirit by their High Priest, the Lord Jesus, so that the soul no longer affects the spirit and the spirit no longer is controlled by the soul. Thus, each has its own place, and one can distinguish what is from the soul and what is from the spirit without any confusion or mixture.
I hope this helps you understand my position scripturally, and spiritually.May God richly Bless you...
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Do you not think that possibly it could?
Matthew 22:37-40
Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
To me the above commands sum up the 10 given to Moses in 2.
Jesus took it further as well by telling us to love our enemies.
You are right in that we cannot obey the 10 commandments perfectly, break one you break them all (hope I'm right with that)
The heart of the matter to comes down to love.
Gods love for us which is Agape.
lets be honest we cannot love God as much as he loves us.
When Jesus asked Peter (the first 2 times) do you love me he used Agape to which Peter replied with Phileo.
The 3rd time Jesus asked do you Phileo me?
So it seems Jesus accepted Peter at the Phileo level of love but we all know Peter died for his love of Jesus which I would say is Agape.
I think when people know Jesus what they see is love and it's that love that should drive us.
Moving us more and more into Agape.
Matthew 22:37-40
Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
To me the above commands sum up the 10 given to Moses in 2.
Jesus took it further as well by telling us to love our enemies.
You are right in that we cannot obey the 10 commandments perfectly, break one you break them all (hope I'm right with that)
The heart of the matter to comes down to love.
Gods love for us which is Agape.
lets be honest we cannot love God as much as he loves us.
When Jesus asked Peter (the first 2 times) do you love me he used Agape to which Peter replied with Phileo.
The 3rd time Jesus asked do you Phileo me?
So it seems Jesus accepted Peter at the Phileo level of love but we all know Peter died for his love of Jesus which I would say is Agape.
I think when people know Jesus what they see is love and it's that love that should drive us.
Moving us more and more into Agape.
The ten commandments are about how love fails in someones life.
It is a warning of failure.
Love empowers us to fulfill the commandments, because they are just a
statement of what happens when love is not King in ones life.
If ones motivation is only conformity to avoid judgement, then commandments are
a burden, but if you desire love that reigns in your heart, then you know you will perfectly
fulfill the commandments so they are not condemning but a song of freedom.
This is what John testifies to
We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands.
1 John 2:3
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
2 John 1:6
It is a warning of failure.
Love empowers us to fulfill the commandments, because they are just a
statement of what happens when love is not King in ones life.
If ones motivation is only conformity to avoid judgement, then commandments are
a burden, but if you desire love that reigns in your heart, then you know you will perfectly
fulfill the commandments so they are not condemning but a song of freedom.
This is what John testifies to
We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands.
1 John 2:3
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
2 John 1:6
E
That is not what scripture says.
Gal 3: [SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[SUP][e]
[/SUP]Deut 27: 26: ‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’
Gal 3: [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 3: [SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[SUP][e]
[/SUP]Deut 27: 26: ‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’
Gal 3: [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
E
Yes, those two commands do what the ten could not do. in that if we do those two perfecty, we woudl never sin, which means we would keep the ten and many many other commands God gave us, not to mention the inner meaning of those ten.
But again, we can not do those perfectly, we break those every day. if we are honest with ourselves.
But again, we can not do those perfectly, we break those every day. if we are honest with ourselves.
The feeling I get about people and the ten commandments is they take the if I break one
small point of these commandments I break them all, and then just give up.
The commandments are about fellowship with God and the desire we have to spend time
with Him and be transformed. There may never be a true point of perfection as we understand
it, but there is always transformation and blessing, life flowing through us and us desiring how
to love more deeply.
For me to feel I have arrived is something I am not looking for, rather what is the next issue
I need to work on. When we begin to grasp we reap what we sow, this is such a optimistic
reality. If we sow to the Spirit we reap victory, insight, strength, victory, so even if our
past is full of bad things, mistakes, failure, God is promising us a new road and a new place
of blessing that is so different. It is this promise that drives me forward, because in all things
I can never see the blessing I am to others, only that which is the next step in Him.
I remember when disappointment and hurt used to bind me, that I would be shy at sharing,
when His word seemed strange and closed. But we are called to be victorious, to rejoice in Him
and the Holy Spirit and to know real blessing. And if we walk in faith, He does not disappoint.
small point of these commandments I break them all, and then just give up.
The commandments are about fellowship with God and the desire we have to spend time
with Him and be transformed. There may never be a true point of perfection as we understand
it, but there is always transformation and blessing, life flowing through us and us desiring how
to love more deeply.
For me to feel I have arrived is something I am not looking for, rather what is the next issue
I need to work on. When we begin to grasp we reap what we sow, this is such a optimistic
reality. If we sow to the Spirit we reap victory, insight, strength, victory, so even if our
past is full of bad things, mistakes, failure, God is promising us a new road and a new place
of blessing that is so different. It is this promise that drives me forward, because in all things
I can never see the blessing I am to others, only that which is the next step in Him.
I remember when disappointment and hurt used to bind me, that I would be shy at sharing,
when His word seemed strange and closed. But we are called to be victorious, to rejoice in Him
and the Holy Spirit and to know real blessing. And if we walk in faith, He does not disappoint.
Bigger letters yet....still does not buy or keep salvation.....and like normal...you chunk context and the rest of the bible to push your lies and deceit......works do not save or keep saved....one day you will figure that out....I am fairly confident it will not be until the day you find yourself in the "plenteous in number grouping"<----by your theology!
So we are spirit men and women. So what was Moses and Elijah and Jesus?
What about Paul and the apostles?
Is this the idea we are now eternal spirit beings who can never die, little gods
with creative power, to bring things into existance exnihilo?
To those who believe it, I say create something then and walk on water.
It is one thing to claim you have transcended mortality another to prove it
is real. I have heard people claim they can control the weather this way.
What about Paul and the apostles?
Is this the idea we are now eternal spirit beings who can never die, little gods
with creative power, to bring things into existance exnihilo?
To those who believe it, I say create something then and walk on water.
It is one thing to claim you have transcended mortality another to prove it
is real. I have heard people claim they can control the weather this way.