Not By Works

[stonesoffire]

I don't understand why the disconnect here...

We in the body of Christ...reign in life through the blood of the lamb and the word of testimony. The testimony of the Cross, yes, but then...the resurrection. There is our life in Spirit. We have died with Christ. Christ means anointed One actually. His name is Yeshua, the Messiah.

So the Christ is our victory! The anointed One...anointing Of His own Spirit...who is sent to speak of Jesus...and to empower us to declare Him. Both the inward anointing in us...and the outward anointed One with us.

Walk then in Him. Did He worry about laws? No! He moved out of Father...wholly dependent on Him. An example to us..the pattern Son.

 

[dcontroversal]

Romans 2v13
[SUP]13 [/SUP](for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

Paul and James are in agreement

Nice try....now quote the rest of Paul....especially Romans 3, 4 and Galatians.....

WE CONCLUDE a MAN is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the DEEDS of the LAW.......

You know....your exclusion of verses and the deceptive way you post really proves who leads you........and the Spirit of God it is not........!

 

[stonesoffire]

And the Pharisees accused Him.

 

[stonesoffire]

My computer isn't working the way it should. That last post was not to dcon...and I can't use the reply with quote button all the time.

taking a break.

 

[slave]

I don't understand what you mean by sober judgement. Anointing is the word I would use. Unless you are speaking about fulltime ministry?

(Romans 12:3):For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.


I meant that by His Spirit communicating with my spirit intuitively, and then my mind also working (after) to gain the Spirits message as real to myself in understanding it thru study and meditation....I have completed the loop of righteous living and I live in sober judgement, being pliable to the Spirit, and enlivened to anything trying to submit an opinion from outside influences; to stand against. Our spirits dwelling place; is our most inner self. Sober judgement starts from within - out (First His Spirit indwelling; then our spirit dwelling from within to our soul being ruled by our spirit, to the body which is ruled by our soul). Dead to the right to myself; and fully dependent on the Lord, which by His name explains it: He has power and authority and influence as Master of my disposition in Him. He is orchestrator of my New Creation.

 

[dcontroversal]

Here you are taking Rom. chapter 2 out of it's context to try make it say something else. Paul was talking about the Jews are all guilty before God as the Gentiles were and the Law exposes this to them.



Here is what Paul "really" said about being justified.

Acts 13:39 (KJV)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans 3:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 5:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


Galatians 3:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 5:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.


Titus 3:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.



This one is really going to hurt the workers for salvation and justification.

Galatians 2:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Anyone who is honest can see how he does this on a regular basis......very, very deceptive.....reminds me of the serpent in the garden.........serious......I have watched him ditch context, partial verses, verb tense, verbiage, add words, cut verses in the middle etc. not stop to push his working for false dogma...........very deceptive....

 

[PeterJens]

Life in the Spirit which is a supernatural life? is legalism? Full of joy with every revelation received? legalism?
That's the first time that word has ever been applied to me. Makes me laugh. Not in scorn...just wondering how?

A legalist hates the law because it condemns them.
A member of Heaven rejoices in the law because it demonstrates to them Gods work in
their hearts.

It is not an overnight experience or even something that comes in a blinding flash of insight.
What always worries me is believers who feel condemned by the law, because the law only
condemns sinners, not those who walk in the Spirit.

So finding out what is condemning and difficult always highlights an issue that needs addressing.
I used to look forward to hearing something that I was failing in so that I could grow and understand
how to bring glory to the King. This is the power of discipleship, the walk of grace, knowing that
one is walking more strongly and the Lord is carrying less. Now that is true encouragement.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes they are

JAMES never said we are saved by works, He said if we CLAIM to have faith, but have no works, our faith is dead.

can a person with dead faith be saved?

NO!!

Why?

Because a dead faith is no faith at all. It is WHY they have no work.

But you want to twist it to support your works based theology,

Good lick with that, as for me, I will stick with the cross.. and Christ crucified.

It is hilariously sad how the workers for use James out of context to push a false salvation by works....going to be a lot of surprised workers for begging to enter based upon their working for dogma....to only be cast because they never really trusted Christ, but watered down his blood and trampled under foot his sacrifice in favor of a self earned false salvation.....LORD, LORD did we not....I can see him saying that.....tragically....

 

[dcontroversal]

How dare you, you better write the ten commandments 100 times, until you know all of them by hart, and maybe just maybe you will not break them!!

HAHAHHA no doubt.......Thank God we do not have to keep the commandments (FOR SALVATION) Jesus was clear....Paul was clear....OFFEND in one of the LEAST of the commandments makes one guilty of the WHOLE LAW..........I bet most of the workers for IF NOT ALL....cannot name all 613 laws and commandments found in the scripture....much less KEEP ALL OF THEM 24/7/365 their whole life.......no hope at all in works for salvation.....a dead end that leads to hell according to Galatians 1 and 3

 

[Grace777x70]

Anyone who is honest can see how he does this on a regular basis......very, very deceptive.....reminds me of the serpent in the garden.........serious......I have watched him ditch context, partial verses, verb tense, verbiage, add words, cut verses in the middle etc. not stop to push his working for false dogma...........very deceptive....

I was in the very same boat. It's a product of the religion I was in before the Lord revealed His true grace in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

In this religion - there were many good Christians that loved the Lord but were deceived by religious teachings that are contrary to the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. They loved the Lord but they perpetuated this "working for salvation in order to keep it" doctrine.

There is a veil that comes over our minds when we try to "do the works of the law for salvation". We read all scriptures - especially the warning scriptures through the "lens" of - we lose our salvation as in Christ leaves us and forsakes us if we don't "do things".

This principle is seen in the reading of Moses which is basically "living by what you do or don't do" of which the whole law of Moses was built on.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] But to this day whenever Mosesis read, a veil lies over their heart;

[SUP]16 [/SUP] but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

We will only have the veil lifted from our eyes when we turn to the Lord and see what He has already done by grace through faith. Until then - we will live by what we do or don't do as in the law of Moses and miss out on the true Christian life which is only found in Him.

The just shall live by faith - faith in the finished work of Christ which is by grace through faith only.

 

[dcontroversal]

One more time for those who have short term memories..

Grace through faith is what saves us. Add to that, belief in Jesus. So grace, faith and belief are what saves us.

Not the lawn you mow for your disabled neighbor.

Not the meal you serve at a soup kitchen.

Not the ride you give to someone who needs one.

WORKS DO NOT SAVE US.

End of story.

AMEN BLUE......more truth with two edges.....

 

[slave]

A legalist hates the law because it condemns them.
A member of Heaven rejoices in the law because it demonstrates to them Gods work in
their hearts.

It is not an overnight experience or even something that comes in a blinding flash of insight.
What always worries me is believers who feel condemned by the law, because the law only
condemns sinners, not those who walk in the Spirit.

So finding out what is condemning and difficult always highlights an issue that needs addressing.
I used to look forward to hearing something that I was failing in so that I could grow and understand
how to bring glory to the King. This is the power of discipleship, the walk of grace, knowing that
one is walking more strongly and the Lord is carrying less. Now that is true encouragement.

I agree with many things you mentioned, but where you say, "This is the power of discipleship, the walk of grace, knowing that (one is walking more strongly and the Lord is carrying less), do you think we could say instead, "This is the power of discipleship, the walk of grace, knowing that my behaviors in my disposition in Christ is less me and more (to all) Him in me; yet, nonetheless me now in Christ?" ....now, to me, that is true encouragement.

 

[dcontroversal]

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

Dear all,

Well I haven't been back in to this thread for a while but what I can see so far from the many comments I have been reading, I think this thread has it's origins from Babylon. Well, not literally but there seems to be a lot of confusion in here. Just saying, still love you all .

God bless you




He believes that Christians should follow the Sabbath from Friday night until Saturday and if not - then we have fallen for the deception of Babylon.

Here is the website of this particular sects beliefs from his signature. This will show where certain thoughts and beliefs are coming from.

https://www.beastsmark.com/deception

And you are right - it is works-based-law based righteousness doctrine.

I should have guessed.......OH well.....the bible does not teach that fallacy......and to be honest...the world walks in darkness and should be no surprise that many have no understanding.....another worker for......tragic......Galatians 1 and 3 make it clear this is a dead end false faith with no power.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Experimenting with Font size.

James 2 [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

We all know you blindly follow a works based pseudo salvation......Go read the words of Jesus and insert yourself in the plenteous in number that appears before the throne of Jesus boasting of your works as your means of salvation.......I suggest Galatians 1 and 3.....then trust JESUS 100% and not be found in the foolish bewitched group that Galatians speaks about......

 

[dcontroversal]

Name every one of His commandments that this verse is referring to. Don't leave one out because if our eternal security is dependent on this - we need to know "every one".

What exactly are these commandments?

( of course in the New Covenant we have been told exactly what these commandments are in 1 John 3:23 )

Yep...all 613 of them.......and kept to a T..........24/7/365 or be lost!

 

[dcontroversal]

Matthew 7v21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

I am glad to see you are aware of the group you will be in if you continue to trust your café blend of faith and works.......a gospel of a different kind with no power to save.......that is why they are lost.....they trusted self and work over JESUS.....the same flavor of gospel you espouse and push....man wake up and open your eyes.....

 

[Zi]

Funny you say that because I don't see a drop of love in your posts.. How do we see the spirit of God is who leads you? Anyone can study.. Your love will show you're my disciples.. Without love we are nothing.. Proud of all your research is all we see here... God loves the world.. if you were closer you'd be more kind, remembering how much you have been forgiven.. Maybe you don't want to be close and know Him.. You seem to like berating folks while claiming you have all you need...Faith... Seems to be in yourself not Jesus

Nice try....now quote the rest of Paul....especially Romans 3, 4 and Galatians.....

WE CONCLUDE a MAN is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the DEEDS of the LAW.......

You know....your exclusion of verses and the deceptive way you post really proves who leads you........and the Spirit of God it is not........!

 

[dcontroversal]

Funny you say that because I don't see a drop of love in your posts.. How do we see the spirit of God is who leads you? Anyone can study.. Your love will show you're my disciples.. Without love we are nothing.. Proud of all your research is all we see here... God loves the world.. if you were closer you'd be more kind, remembering how much you have been forgiven.. Maybe you don't want to be close and know Him.. You seem to like berating folks while claiming you have all you need...Faith... Seems to be in yourself not Jesus

So what...words on a page do not show motive and or facial expressions....Love and truth GO hand in hand....You are the type that would judge JESUS and JOHN when they preached what they preached.....and your view reeks of judging motive and is full of bias judgment without the facts.....simple solution....don't read my posts or come in this thread.....how is that?

Go judge yourself.....you don't know me nor my motive....he is as deceptive as they come...deal with him a while and you will see....and no where have I boasted of what I know or don't know....HAHAHHAA WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY....serious...your judgment of my motive and the things you say is just as much lacking pal.....

 

[BillG]

The feeling I get about people and the ten commandments is they take the if I break one
small point of these commandments I break them all, and then just give up.

The commandments are about fellowship with God and the desire we have to spend time
with Him and be transformed. There may never be a true point of perfection as we understand
it, but there is always transformation and blessing, life flowing through us and us desiring how
to love more deeply.

For me to feel I have arrived is something I am not looking for, rather what is the next issue
I need to work on. When we begin to grasp we reap what we sow, this is such a optimistic
reality. If we sow to the Spirit we reap victory, insight, strength, victory, so even if our
past is full of bad things, mistakes, failure, God is promising us a new road and a new place
of blessing that is so different. It is this promise that drives me forward, because in all things
I can never see the blessing I am to others, only that which is the next step in Him.

I remember when disappointment and hurt used to bind me, that I would be shy at sharing,
when His word seemed strange and closed. But we are called to be victorious, to rejoice in Him
and the Holy Spirit and to know real blessing. And if we walk in faith, He does not disappoint.

I see what you are saying in the 1st paragraph.
Maybe I didn't put it right.

Lets say I break the law of not coveting have I not made that my God?

Maybe I could put it another way. We can't keep God Holy perfect standard. If one thing we do detracts from that then we have fallen short and therefore guilty as judged.

There will never be a true point of perfection in us, as you say it's because as we understand and maybe don't get how God understands it.

Yes we seek God, ask God to conform us to the image of Jesus. That is what we should sow and if we do that is what we will reap.

Thank God that he does not disappoint when we seek him, I also thank God that when we get it wrong he will correct us.

He is greater than it all.

His love and mercy found us, oh the blood of Jesus is greater.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't understand why the disconnect here...

We in the body of Christ...reign in life through the blood of the lamb and the word of testimony. The testimony of the Cross, yes, but then...the resurrection. There is our life in Spirit. We have died with Christ. Christ means anointed One actually. His name is Yeshua, the Messiah.

So the Christ is our victory! The anointed One...anointing Of His own Spirit...who is sent to speak of Jesus...and to empower us to declare Him. Both the inward anointing in us...and the outward anointed One with us.

Walk then in Him. Did He worry about laws? No! He moved out of Father...wholly dependent on Him. An example to us..the pattern Son.

He he followed the law of love perfectly, so he never had to worry about the law of Moses, it never had to convict him of sin