Not By Works

[PeterJens]

I agree....salvation is eternal and it cannot be lost nor forfeit by what men may or may not do.....The promise is of God and if men can alleviate the promises of God and or negate the eternal life found in Christ then God is weak and cannot keep his word.....

Obviously I believe he can and does.......!

"God is weak and cannot keep his word"

God has promised to those who believe in Jesus and walk in obedience to His ways
salvation.

To those who are found in unbelief and sin will be judged like all sinners because they
have revoked the very promises and salvation of the King.

Take just one parable.

The wedding celebration. You might be invited but if you turn up inappropriately
dressed then you will be cast out. Every parable there is a warning of failure,
of not taking it seriously of not dealing with sin and rebellion. Israel given so much
yet many still fell and were judged.

So God will keep His word to His faithful followers of Christ. But for those who
rebel and fall into sin, there will be judgement. Why? Because walking in love is
the fulfilment of the gospel and the law.

So though many will become unfaithful to God, He will stay faithful to those who
walk in faith with Him. Amen.

 

[Chris1975]

Read this. Slowly. Carefully. Learn.

Ezekiel 20

[SUP]6 [/SUP]On that day I raised My hand in an oath to them, to bring them out of the land of Egypt into a land that I had searched out for them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’[SUP][a][/SUP] the glory of all lands. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then I said to them, ‘Each of you, throw away the abominations which are before his eyes, and do not defile yourselves with the idols of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.’

Then....

[SUP]15 [/SUP]So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’[SUP][d][/SUP] the glory of all lands, [SUP]16 [/SUP]because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.


Ask yourself this. Has God changed?

 

[dcontroversal]

"God is weak and cannot keep his word"

God has promised to those who believe in Jesus and walk in obedience to His ways
salvation.

To those who are found in unbelief and sin will be judged like all sinners because they
have revoked the very promises and salvation of the King.

Take just one parable.

The wedding celebration. You might be invited but if you turn up inappropriately
dressed then you will be cast out. Every parable there is a warning of failure,
of not taking it seriously of not dealing with sin and rebellion. Israel given so much
yet many still fell and were judged.

So God will keep His word to His faithful followers of Christ. But for those who
rebel and fall into sin, there will be judgement. Why? Because walking in love is
the fulfilment of the gospel and the law.

So though many will become unfaithful to God, He will stay faithful to those who
walk in faith with Him. Amen.

No, actually God has promised salvation and eternal life unto those who believe in his Son Jesus .......thanks for reminding me why I have you on ignore......still pushing your working for dogma....works do not save...read the following verse...

It pleased GOD by the FOOLISHNESS of preaching to SAVE THEM That believe!<-----see the word believe....end of story....!

 

[dcontroversal]

Read this. Slowly. Carefully. Learn.

Ezekiel 20

[SUP]6 [/SUP]On that day I raised My hand in an oath to them, to bring them out of the land of Egypt into a land that I had searched out for them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’[SUP][a][/SUP] the glory of all lands. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then I said to them, ‘Each of you, throw away the abominations which are before his eyes, and do not defile yourselves with the idols of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.’

Then....

[SUP]15 [/SUP]So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’[SUP][d][/SUP] the glory of all lands, [SUP]16 [/SUP]because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.


Ask yourself this. Has God changed?

Maybe you are ignorant of the fact that there are TWO (2) covenants.....ONE specifically for Israel and designed to lay GUILT before ALL.....and MAYBE your ignorant of the fact that the NEW COVENANT was ratified by the death of JESUS and NOW we are under GRACE and MERCY and the CONDEMNATION of the 1st COVENANT which you espouse and now PUSH has been alleviated and is NO LONGER applicable UNTO those who trust JESUS.......so....take your own advice and GO READ SLOWLY about the NEW COVENANT and the GRACE and MERCY that has come dia the SON JESUS CHRIST.......

 

[PeterJens]

This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. [SUP]3 [/SUP]In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, [SUP]4 [/SUP]for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
1 John 5:2-5

Are Gods commands burdensome? Not if your walk in the Spirit, because
everyone born of God overcomes the world.

Now the question of self doubt is what if one is burdened by sin and defeat?
Humble yourself before God and He will lift you up.

Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time.
James 4:10

Now people will say how dare you suggest we should humble ourselves, that would admit
we are not forgiven so would be unbelief.

And suggesting someone has a problem is also unbelief because in Christ all problems
have been dealt with, even if they have not.

 

[Chris1975]

Maybe you are ignorant of the fact that there are TWO (2) covenants.....ONE specifically for Israel and designed to lay GUILT before ALL.....and MAYBE your ignorant of the fact that the NEW COVENANT was ratified by the death of JESUS and NOW we are under GRACE and MERCY and the CONDEMNATION of the 1st COVENANT which you espouse and now PUSH has been alleviated and is NO LONGER applicable UNTO those who trust JESUS.......so....take your own advice and GO READ SLOWLY about the NEW COVENANT and the GRACE and MERCY that has come dia the SON JESUS CHRIST.......

The new covenant is also conditional. See below.

Lets look at some of the scriptures specifically dealing with the new covenant we have in Christ, now that the old covenant has been done away with:

Ezekiel 36v26-27
[SUP]26 [/SUP]I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. [SUP]27 [/SUP]I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Jeremiah 31v31-34
[SUP]31 [/SUP]“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— [SUP]32 [/SUP]not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[SUP][a][/SUP] says the Lord. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. [SUP]34 [/SUP]No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Hebrews 10v16-39
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]17 [/SUP]then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, [SUP]20 [/SUP]by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, [SUP]21 [/SUP]and having a High Priest over the house of God, [SUP]22 [/SUP]let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, [SUP]25 [/SUP]not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[SUP][e][/SUP] says the Lord.[SUP][f][/SUP] And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”[SUP][g][/SUP] [SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. [SUP]32 [/SUP]But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: [SUP]33 [/SUP]partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; [SUP]34 [/SUP]for you had compassion on me[SUP][h][/SUP] in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven.[SUP][i][/SUP] [SUP]35 [/SUP]Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. [SUP]36 [/SUP]For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]“For yet a little while,
And He[SUP][j][/SUP] who is coming will come and will not tarry.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Now the[SUP][k][/SUP] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”[SUP][l][/SUP]
[SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.


What can we glean from the above scriptures?

What God does/fulfills:
-new heart
-new spirit
-law in our minds
-write the law on our hearts
-He will be our God
-He will forgive our iniquities
-He will remember our sins no more
-cleansing our conscience
-our bodies washed with pure water
-faithfulness towards us

What we do/fulfill:
-keeping his statutes, judgements, doing them
-We will be His people
-we will know Him
-we are to draw near to God
-have faith / believe
-live by faith
-hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering
-love one another
-good works
-fellowship with believers
-exhorting one another
-enduring confidence
-doing the will of God

Breaking covenant:

• Willfully sinning
• Drawing back

 

[dcontroversal]

The new covenant is also conditional. See below.

Lets look at some of the scriptures specifically dealing with the new covenant we have in Christ, now that the old covenant has been done away with:

Ezekiel 36v26-27
[SUP]26 [/SUP]I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. [SUP]27 [/SUP]I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Jeremiah 31v31-34
[SUP]31 [/SUP]“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— [SUP]32 [/SUP]not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[SUP][a][/SUP] says the Lord. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. [SUP]34 [/SUP]No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Hebrews 10v16-39
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]17 [/SUP]then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, [SUP]20 [/SUP]by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, [SUP]21 [/SUP]and having a High Priest over the house of God, [SUP]22 [/SUP]let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, [SUP]25 [/SUP]not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[SUP][e][/SUP] says the Lord.[SUP][f][/SUP] And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”[SUP][g][/SUP] [SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. [SUP]32 [/SUP]But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: [SUP]33 [/SUP]partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; [SUP]34 [/SUP]for you had compassion on me[SUP][h][/SUP] in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven.[SUP][i][/SUP] [SUP]35 [/SUP]Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. [SUP]36 [/SUP]For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]“For yet a little while,
And He[SUP][j][/SUP] who is coming will come and will not tarry.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Now the[SUP][k][/SUP] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”[SUP][l][/SUP]
[SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.


What can we glean from the above scriptures?

What God does/fulfills:
-new heart
-new spirit
-law in our minds
-write the law on our hearts
-He will be our God
-He will forgive our iniquities
-He will remember our sins no more
-cleansing our conscience
-our bodies washed with pure water
-faithfulness towards us

What we do/fulfill:
-keeping his statutes, judgements, doing them
-We will be His people
-we will know Him
-we are to draw near to God
-have faith / believe
-live by faith
-hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering
-love one another
-good works
-fellowship with believers
-exhorting one another
-enduring confidence
-doing the will of God

Breaking covenant:

• Willfully sinning
• Drawing back

CONTEXT.....HEBREWS who desire to go back under the law....and sinning does not cause one to lose salvation..no matter how many times you slice and dice it to try and prove this....

 

[PeterJens]

No, actually God has promised salvation and eternal life unto those who believe in his Son Jesus .......thanks for reminding me why I have you on ignore......still pushing your working for dogma....works do not save...read the following verse...

It pleased GOD by the FOOLISHNESS of preaching to SAVE THEM That believe!<-----see the word believe....end of story....!

Amen. God has promised for those who are found in faith when He returns not the
turn coats who ran away at the first sign of problems.

The simple problem of the self deluded is a verse that can be read in the present and
future tense, ie you are saved if you stay believing cannot be turned into a past tense
pipe dream which is later denied and the person walking in rebellion.

This is equivalent of saying a Satanist who once believed would be forced into the
Kingdom of love and free walking with God, even though they now hate this.

It is just such an obvious stupid proposition but so strong is the delusion, they
will ignore this contradiction because the faith they hold to is their whole emotional
existence, a form of idolatry, rather than submitting to our limited knowledge of reality
and truth, they have decided truth is only defined by their current perceptions and all
else is a work of satan. Bit of a shock when they meet Christ and things turn out to be
very different.

I do personally wonder at my faith, though sincere I had not seriously looked at the
idea about walking in holiness as a reality we could fulfil in Christ, now today. Praise
the Lord He has brought this revelation to my heart. Amen.

But this is only possible if your take confession of each individual sin you are aware
of and actively sowing to the Spirit and putting to death the works of the flesh.

 

[Chris1975]

CONTEXT.....HEBREWS who desire to go back under the law....and sinning does not cause one to lose salvation..no matter how many times you slice and dice it to try and prove this....

Using your claim of Context - prove your assertion that Hebrews is only for those Hebrews who desire to go back under the law.

Even Ezekiel 36v26-27 (new covenant) above corroborates the same assertions of Ezekiel 20. Walking in His statutes and judgements.

 

[Chris1975]

CONTEXT.....HEBREWS who desire to go back under the law....and sinning does not cause one to lose salvation..no matter how many times you slice and dice it to try and prove this....

Hebrews 10 is just as applicable to the Gentile. From where we get our text. Prove that Hebrews 10 is not applicable to the Gentile.

 

[Chris1975]

Lol. I'll even go further and assert that the probability is great of it having been Paul that wrote the Hebrews letter.

Hebrews 13
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And I appeal to you, brethren, bear with the word of exhortation, for I have written to you in few words. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Know that our brother Timothy has been set free, with whom I shall see you if he comes shortly.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Greet all those who rule over you, and all the saints. Those from Italy greet you.


Paul died in Rome.

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen. God has promised for those who are found in faith when He returns not the
turn coats who ran away at the first sign of problems.

The simple problem of the self deluded is a verse that can be read in the present and
future tense, ie you are saved if you stay believing cannot be turned into a past tense
pipe dream which is later denied and the person walking in rebellion.

This is equivalent of saying a Satanist who once believed would be forced into the
Kingdom of love and free walking with God, even though they now hate this.

It is just such an obvious stupid proposition but so strong is the delusion, they
will ignore this contradiction because the faith they hold to is their whole emotional
existence, a form of idolatry, rather than submitting to our limited knowledge of reality
and truth, they have decided truth is only defined by their current perceptions and all
else is a work of satan. Bit of a shock when they meet Christ and things turn out to be
very different.

I do personally wonder at my faith, though sincere had not serious idea about walking
in holiness was a reality we could fulfil in Christ, now today. Praise the Lord He has
brought this revelation to my heart. Amen.

And your belief denies verb tense<---that GOD inspired.....when will you finally figure out that it is HIS WORK, he BEGAN the FAITH in ALL believers and HE WILL FINISH the FAITH HE STARTED........and you wonder why we rake you over the coals....

JESUS is the BEGINNER and FINISHER of our faith

JESUS will NEVER leave us or FORSAKE US

JESUS has us IN HIS HAND

WE are in the FATHER'S HAND

WE ARE SEALED with the Spirit of PROMISE

AND GOD who CANNOT LIE PROMISED eternal LIFE unto ALL who biblically acknowledge his SON.....

YOU cannot DO ANYTHING to save yourself or KEEP yourself saved......that is the WORK of CHRIST.......

Your JESUS must be weak.....serious.....we do not worship the same JESUS...mine is STRONG and KEEPS HIS WORD

 

[Chris1975]

Ephesians 2

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, [SUP]15 [/SUP]having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.


There is no separate doctrine for the Jews and the Gentiles. All one body through the cross. Book of Hebrews as applicable to Gentile as it is to Jew.

 

[dcontroversal]

Using your claim of Context - prove your assertion that Hebrews is only for those Hebrews who desire to go back under the law.

Even Ezekiel 36v26-27 (new covenant) above corroborates the same assertions of Ezekiel 20. Walking in His statutes and judgements.

The proof is in the letter...and if you cannot see that..no amount of verbiage I use will help you...the whole book is summed up as BETTER...a BETTER way, sacrifice, priesthood, covenant etc.....

 

[Chris1975]

The proof is in the letter...and if you cannot see that..no amount of verbiage I use will help you...the whole book is summed up as BETTER...a BETTER way, sacrifice, priesthood, covenant etc.....

Lol. Another cop out.

 

[Chris1975]

The proof is in the letter...and if you cannot see that..no amount of verbiage I use will help you...the whole book is summed up as BETTER...a BETTER way, sacrifice, priesthood, covenant etc.....

And you are saying this better way is not applicable to Gentiles?

 

[PeterJens]

CONTEXT.....HEBREWS who desire to go back under the law....and sinning does not cause one to lose salvation..no matter how many times you slice and dice it to try and prove this....

No, wrong, stop saying this stuff, it is pure nonsense. Everyone has shown you time and again
how flawed and empty your logic and arguments are. SMH, doh.
I am sick and tired of this continual denial. I give up on you as a lost cause.
Everything is not about you. This behaviour of slander, lies and insults is worse than the
sin of homosexuality. This is Christian porn. As long as people continue to talk with you
as if there is no sin involved, you will believe there is no issue at all to address.

No matter how you slice and dice scripture the truth will come out against you.

One thing I cannot write that you are going to hell and sending other people to hell,
because that is Gods prerogative.

By the way I wrote the above as a reflection of the normal diatribe and junk I face
which actually is meaningless and can be said by anyone.

I do wonder how the delusion of this abuse is so addictive to some, like a one upmanship
dictator type roll, trampling on someone without foundation.

It is educational though, of the tactics that a losing side will go to, to try and bolster a
position where the arguments no longer exist, lol.

 

[Chris1975]

The proof is in the letter...and if you cannot see that..no amount of verbiage I use will help you...the whole book is summed up as BETTER...a BETTER way, sacrifice, priesthood, covenant etc.....

So then, what in Hebrews 10 is NOT applicable to Gentiles?

Be specific. Not another COP OUT.

Since that's the passages I posted.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hebrews 10 is just as applicable to the Gentile. From where we get our text. Prove that Hebrews 10 is not applicable to the Gentile.

Another error is to assume anything...the book is directed at HEBREW Christians....and your whole point is moot....Gentiles had no part with the Jewish system, were not delivered from Egypt, were not in the wilderness, were not beholden to Moses etc.......WAKE UP.....and who said that we cannot glean truth from the book....??

 

[dcontroversal]

Lol. Another cop out.

There was no cop out....you do like you always do....refuse to accept any truth not hammered on your own anvil and then make assertions just like this one.....