I to to believe a persons faith can be shipwrecked, but I believe God keeps his word no matter what.
in fact, the fact we have eternal life according to the apostle john is the reason for our hope as even Paul said in Titus, it is gods promise, the Holy Spirit is the pledge, and if for any reason, God goes back on his word, that's on him..
even if if we are faithless, he is faithful he can not deny himself
he made the unconditional promise nod said he will, we can not break that covenant because we did not fear anything up for e covenant.
i am not Calvinist either, I wonder if people hate osas because they hate Calvinism and their lack of free will stuff. That's why I asked.
My faith was shipwrecked many times as I posted, yet it never went away, I do not believe a person who has true faith, and experienced the true love of God and has the Holy Spirit would ever lose faith, you do not completely lose faith in someone who never lets you down.
God did not let me down, his people did, hope that makes sense,
E- How does the rest of God's promises in 2 Tim 2.11-13 fit into the one verse you quoted?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]It is a trustworthy statement:For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
Vs 13 is not stand alone is it? There are other conditions in verse's 11-12, that explain Vs 13, right?
I read Vs 13 to mean that when we are faithless to God, God remains faithful to his covenant, because he will not deny what he says.
One cannot really just quote Vs 13 without verses 11-12 can they?
a person who has true faith, and experienced the true love of God and has the Holy Spirit would ever lose faith, you do not completely lose faith in someone who never lets you down.
This the truth of eternal security.
I have know people who had true faith and then denied him and died denying him....If we seek to understand Verse 11 properly then God was faithful to his side of the covenant when they were faithless and he denied them, because they denied him because he will not deny what he says he will do and his word in Vs 11 makes it very clear...If we deny Him, He also will deny us.
This is falling away because of hurt and offense, backsliding, deception, etc.