Rapture= false teaching

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miktre

Guest
Jesus is the knower of what is in mens hearts.
Yes Him

I discussed scripture, just did not quote it, and this is wrong how?
See alot of this these days. Its like a pastor that gives one or two verses and then goes on and on with his own words. When in a Biblical discussion its ALWAYS better to use scripture to coincide with the point you are attempting to put forth.
You believe in the resurrection, in this you do good. But do you know that in Christ, there is life, everlasting life, life without end? And that this is why Jesus came into the world, to give us life, and that more abundantly? Martha believed that in the last day, the dead would rise at His word, but Jesus answered her and said:

I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live, even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die.
Yes Christ is the resurrection. No one is saying different from this. What does believing in Christ mean though? It means believing His word and the Bible would of been a whole lot smaller without Christs endtime teaching. Why did He teach it you might wonder. Its because it is very important. Not everybodys faith is so great as yours and when angelic beings show up claiming to be God many unprepared will worship this fake. Now if you want to go ahead and worship the fake(satan) that is coming because you don't think there is anything to worry about and didn't
take heed then you will have much to overcome. Many without such great faith as yours will not.
When Christ shows up we know not all shall make it.
Observe:

24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

It wasn't Christ that taught in their streets and was in their presence, it was the fake that He told you was coming.

27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Like those who pay lip service but never get around to actually reading what Christ had to say. 1000s of verse replaced with 'don't worry' concerning the last days would of made the Bible alot smaller. When Christ says take heed He has my fullest attention.


JOHN 10

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.





This is what is important in the work of Christ. Not that we have a perfect understanding of end time events, not that we know when the resurrection is, because we are alive in Him, and that is beyond the resurrection. We are written in the book of life, that is Jesus, and we are alive in Him never to die.

Listen again, to the scripture I provided you, but you did not recognize it.

Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear shall live.(When shall they live, next week or next year, or at the resurrection?) For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to exexute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, (notice that this hour is not yet come,) in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; those who did good to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil to a resurrection of judgment.
You didn't provide this scripture, not even close. How is this anything to do against anything I have said?

Have we heard His voice, and have we become alive in Him? This is what matters. There is a resurrection, but as those who are in Him, are we bound to the tomb? Is not our life hidden in God with Christ, in heaven, right now?

No, I see your predilection with the correctness of our understanding of end time events to be at best distracting. We know that He is coming, and we know that He has not yet come. That is enough, seeing that we are risen up in Him, in His resurrection, now.

Satan and the fallen angels are coming first is what He told you yet you are totally unprepared. You must believe once saved always saved, iwould be careful with that doctrine if you believe it means you can do whatever you want.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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If we are alive in Him, then we are alive. I think that this is very relevant. The resurrection is for those who are in the tombs. If we have heard His voice, thenwe have already passed out of death into life.
 
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miktre

Guest
Beloved,
you are a true Christain with understanding, one of Gods elect, It is most important for our Brothers and Sisters, that you keep your fight for thier Salvation, In my prayers I have called our Father to see your works, as he knows your fight well, God Bless You " MikTre"
Thank you friend, means so much to me.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
Again, Christ said take heed not it doesn't matter.
It is not possible for scripture to contradict itself and support all three.
Christ is not the author of confusion, He spoke much on the subject.



I can tell you have been having a hard time staying on subject and inject imaginary points into the conversation. I clearly said that Christ said take heed not "it doesn't matter". I never said anything about you thinking what Christ said doesn't matter. But since you bring this point up then you will take heed as He told you to and let loose of the "doesn't matter" umbilical doctrine if you care what He says.

Miktre is right.

I DOES matter.

If you do not embrace the Biblical position of a Pretribulation Rapture you are vulnerable to deceptions including antisemitism.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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Miktre is right.

I DOES matter.

If you do not embrace the Biblical position of a Pretribulation Rapture you are vulnerable to deceptions including antisemitism.
This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read.
then you need to get out more

I assume then that you are antisemitic

do not forget Gen 12:3
 
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ShelleBelle76

Guest
Miktre is right.

I DOES matter.

If you do not embrace the Biblical position of a Pretribulation Rapture you are vulnerable to deceptions including antisemitism.
Let's be logical here. If a Christian chooses NOT to believe the rapture will take place prior to the Tribulation, and believes that we may have to endure some persecution for a while before we are wisked away, and it just so happens that the rapture really does take place prior to those events... what exactly has that person lost? It seems they would come out on the upsaide of that situation! :)

However, if someone believes in the pretribulation rapture, and it turns out that doesn't happen exactly as they have so determinately planned for. And they have endured some rather unpleasant circumstances they weren't quite prepared for. Who would be more at risk of questioning, why, Lord, have you forsaken us?

Just a thought....
 
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greatkraw

Guest
Let's be logical here. If a Christian chooses NOT to believe the rapture will take place prior to the Tribulation, and believes that we may have to endure some persecution for a while before we are wisked away, and it just so happens that the rapture really does take place prior to those events... what exactly has that person lost? It seems they would come out on the upsaide of that situation! :)

However, if someone believes in the pretribulation rapture, and it turns out that doesn't happen exactly as they have so determinately planned for. And they have endured some rather unpleasant circumstances they weren't quite prepared for. Who would be more at risk of questioning, why, Lord, have you forsaken us?

Just a thought....

the problem isthis

has God finished with israel or not

those who think the church will go throught the tribulation make God a liar and assume he has no more plans for the Jews

both assumptions are wrong
 
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ShelleBelle76

Guest
the problem isthis

has God finished with israel or not

those who think the church will go throught the tribulation make God a liar and assume he has no more plans for the Jews

both assumptions are wrong
I am new to this whole topic, so forgive my lack of knowledge, but from what I have heard, when Jesus Christ comes back, with His army (the resurrected saints) to defeat the dragon and the prophet and send them to hell, the Jews will look upon Jesus and they will believe. At which point it is my understanding they will be redeemed. Now the only reason I can assume they would be held to a different standard than the rest of us is that they are His chosen people?

I have so much more to learn about this, but I kind of thought getting my salvation in order might be a tad more important initially. :)

But yes, I know salvation of the Jews is in the Bible, I just cannot for the life of me find where I read that scripture!

When it comes down to it, great theologians can make valid arguements for both scenarios. But we honestly do not know for a fact when or how exactly it will all occur. The only thing we can hope to do is be faithful today, tomorrow and every day, hope the Lord spares us from the suffering, but be strong enough in our faith to believe that if we must endure part of the tribulation, He will never leave us nor forsake us, and we are in His hands. :)
 
Jan 14, 2010
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thats just it, shellebelle: it's not found in scripture.

what greatkraw is trying to tell you is that Israel is held higher than the rest of mankind through the eyes of God, and that the national, physical Israel has some kind of special meaning... when in fact, Christ called ALL of those who believed on Him the Israel of God (Galatians 6:15-16), not to mention Peter even called the Israelites when they were lost in the desert for 40 years the "church in the wilderness" (Acts 7:38)

greatkraw is repeating the assumptions, personal opinions, personal agendas, eisogetical doctrines, and the man-made fantasy called dispensationalism, a theology that only has scriptural basis if you take the Word of God out of context. This theology has no foundation in scripture, for even the Word says we are one in Christ, whether we be Jew or Greek, and are heirs according to the promise (Galatians 3:26-29)
 
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greatkraw

Guest
thats just it, shellebelle: it's not found in scripture.

what greatkraw is trying to tell you is that Israel is held higher than the rest of mankind through the eyes of God, and that the national, physical Israel has some kind of special meaning... when in fact, Christ called ALL of those who believed on Him the Israel of God (Galatians 6:15-16), not to mention Peter even called the Israelites when they were lost in the desert for 40 years the "church in the wilderness" (Acts 7:38)

greatkraw is repeating the assumptions, personal opinions, personal agendas, eisogetical doctrines, and the man-made fantasy called dispensationalism, a theology that only has scriptural basis if you take the Word of God out of context. This theology has no foundation in scripture, for even the Word says we are one in Christ, whether we be Jew or Greek, and are heirs according to the promise (Galatians 3:26-29)
Zilla, try reading the Bible

God historically has dealt differently with different groups of people at different times throughout history

He has made many prophecies concerning israels future prosperity which are yet to be fulfilled.

Are you saying He has no intention of fulfilling his promises?
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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then you need to get out more

I assume then that you are antisemitic

do not forget Gen 12:3
Why would you assume that? Have I ever posted anything which is against Jews or Israel or even against any one based upon their religion or nationality or sex or anything? No!!!

To say that if one does not believe in a pretrib rapture that they are antisemitic is ridiculous. It is worse than that, it is slander.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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the problem isthis

has God finished with israel or not

those who think the church will go throught the tribulation make God a liar and assume he has no more plans for the Jews

both assumptions are wrong
Of course God is not through with Israel, but that has nothing to do with the rapture and the church.

Many who believe in a pretrib rapture are unwilling to look at the sorry state of the church today, and to acknowledge that God will cleanse His bride before He sends His Son to get Her.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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To tell the truth, I believe in the rapture, because to me we are already alive in Jesus, and do not have a part in the resurrection of the dead. I do not believe that we will be taken away before the Antichrist is revealed, and that many of those who call themselves christian will fall to Him, because they have not walked in Jesus and gained the faith to stand in Him. Instead they have placed all their hope on an escape from tribulation, and their faith is selfserving. From what I see in scripture, especially Revelations, there are many raptures, as different people are taken to heaven to be with Christ. Maybe He takes us when He knows we are ready, each at our time.
 
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BestBeWishing

Guest
Quest, I am going to give you the true meaning of this scripture as it was freely given to me.

Luke 21:23
But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Here we see wrath upon these people. I have heard many different crazy interpretations about this verse even that starving people will be eating their babies. Wrath is always from God. Will God have wrath for people for simply being parents? Wrath is G3709 in the strongs and is always connected to Gods wrath upon man. Thats not the God we know.

You must keep in mind that we are to be the bride of Christ and this theme is throughout Gods word.. He is now preparing a place for her and will come to get her. We are to remain spiritual virgins for wedding. We are not to be harlots. Those that are with child are those that have already been spiritually impregnated. That have partaken in a spiritual wedding with the fake thats coming and claiming to be Christ. The product of a marriage is a child and thats the meaning of Christs saying.

2 Corinthians 11
1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
That 'another Jesus' is the fake thats coming.
Bingo!!!!!!! I really amire you Miktre

Keep up the good fight Brother!!!!

"IN His Service"
 
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greatkraw

Guest
Of course God is not through with Israel, but that has nothing to do with the rapture and the church.

Many who believe in a pretrib rapture are unwilling to look at the sorry state of the church today, and to acknowledge that God will cleanse His bride before He sends His Son to get Her.
To quote doctor Emmet Brown from Back to the Future, "You are not thinking 4 dimensionally"

The church is an entity that did not exist before pentecost and will be completed at the rapture.
Its membership spans 2000+ years.
Millions of really mediocre members have already gone to their reward.
You are right!
The Church does need purging.
That purging will occur in Heaven before the purging known as the Tribulation occurs on Earth.
Judgement always begins in the house of God.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
Of course God is not through with Israel, but that has nothing to do with the rapture and the church.

Many who believe in a pretrib rapture are unwilling to look at the sorry state of the church today, and to acknowledge that God will cleanse His bride before He sends His Son to get Her.
If you read Revelation carefully the first three chapters focus on the church; chapter 4 onwards focusses on Israel.
 
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Lauren

Guest
The church is an entity that did not exist before pentecost and will be completed at the rapture.
Its membership spans 2000+ years.
Millions of really mediocre members have already gone to their reward.
You are right!
The Church does need purging.
That purging will occur in Heaven before the purging known as the Tribulation occurs on Earth.
Judgement always begins in the house of God.
LOL, I never thought of it that way before. Two thumbs up for this post. :)