What is the sign for salvation.?
- Thread starter Jackson123
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Here you are bearing false witness of me - I believe that's a sin so now you really have something to use to answer my question.
You still have not answered the question. I like to take religions for test runs to see what is really in them.
Here is the question again.
What happens when you do sin? ( And we know that you do from time to time) - do you become a child of the devil?
1 John 3:9 says that the one born of God cannot sin - not even one sin let alone a million of them. When you sin - does that mean you are not really a child of God after all?
You still have not answered the question. I like to take religions for test runs to see what is really in them.
Here is the question again.
What happens when you do sin? ( And we know that you do from time to time) - do you become a child of the devil?
1 John 3:9 says that the one born of God cannot sin - not even one sin let alone a million of them. When you sin - does that mean you are not really a child of God after all?
David had to repent of his sin. He wasn't walking with God whilst he was lusting, coveting, committing adultry and murdering.
Paul's rebuke to Peter was in ghe context of Peter's hypocrisy due to fearing the Jews. Peter had to correct his behaviour. Peter was not out listing, fornicating, engaging in malice etc.
When Peter denied Jesus he had to repent. That was also before Pentecost when they were all quickened by the Spirit.
Do you really think "free indeed" (Joh 8:36) is not possible? That would be a shame.
Any way, my words in this thread are clear and concise. The truth is self evident. People are free to reject what I say and advocate ongoing bondage to sin in salvation if they like. I certainly won't get in their way. I have many things to go do now.
Be well all.
Scott.
Paul's rebuke to Peter was in ghe context of Peter's hypocrisy due to fearing the Jews. Peter had to correct his behaviour. Peter was not out listing, fornicating, engaging in malice etc.
When Peter denied Jesus he had to repent. That was also before Pentecost when they were all quickened by the Spirit.
Do you really think "free indeed" (Joh 8:36) is not possible? That would be a shame.
Any way, my words in this thread are clear and concise. The truth is self evident. People are free to reject what I say and advocate ongoing bondage to sin in salvation if they like. I certainly won't get in their way. I have many things to go do now.
Be well all.
Scott.
It most definitely is not!
The reality of sin in our lives cannot be dismissed.
If sin could be completely eradicated from our lives then John would have had absolutely no reason to write this:
[FONT="]8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.[/FONT][FONT="] 1 John 1:8-10
And the apostle Paul would not have said this about himself:
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Rom 7:13-25
This is Paul describing his situation in the present tense, in other words his conflict with sin at the time!
Those who believe in sinless perfection suffer from two possible delusions:
One they radically overestimate their own moral performance; or
Two they radically underestimate the moral demands of the law.
The biggest irony of the situation is that the sinless perfectionists become their own worst enemy - they unwittingly become antinomian because the only way that they can maintain their position is to limit God law to their own performance capability!
[FONT="][/FONT]
[/FONT]
The reality of sin in our lives cannot be dismissed.
If sin could be completely eradicated from our lives then John would have had absolutely no reason to write this:
[FONT="]8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.[/FONT][FONT="] 1 John 1:8-10
And the apostle Paul would not have said this about himself:
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Rom 7:13-25
This is Paul describing his situation in the present tense, in other words his conflict with sin at the time!
Those who believe in sinless perfection suffer from two possible delusions:
One they radically overestimate their own moral performance; or
Two they radically underestimate the moral demands of the law.
The biggest irony of the situation is that the sinless perfectionists become their own worst enemy - they unwittingly become antinomian because the only way that they can maintain their position is to limit God law to their own performance capability!
[FONT="][/FONT]
[/FONT]
I agree that David has to repent. My point is David commit sin while he is consider believer, Peter commit hypocrisy while he is not only Christian but apostle. Of course he has to repent.
So so base on these example, Christian do not mean sinless, we are on the way to be sinless, but not quite yet.
So so base on these example, Christian do not mean sinless, we are on the way to be sinless, but not quite yet.
The reason why this question is never answered directly is because it exposes the false hood of the sinless perfection in the flesh doctrine for what it actually is.
We all know that they do sin from time to time and there for according to their "interpretation" of some scriptures - the Christian that does sin is not born of God and is a child of the devil. Their own religion condemns them.
The truth is that the Christian in Christ - the new creation created in righteousness and holiness does not and cannot sin because this is where Christ is joined with us as one spirit. 1 Cor. 6:17
Understanding the circumcision of Christ where the heart of man ( the inner man in Christ ) has been "cut away" from the body of flesh which has the law of sin in it is vital to the revelation that we are free from sin. Col. 2:11 & Rom. 7:17-22 & Rom. 6:14
( Of course they then accuse others of loving sinning and being unbelievers...etc. )
We all know that they do sin from time to time and there for according to their "interpretation" of some scriptures - the Christian that does sin is not born of God and is a child of the devil. Their own religion condemns them.
The truth is that the Christian in Christ - the new creation created in righteousness and holiness does not and cannot sin because this is where Christ is joined with us as one spirit. 1 Cor. 6:17
Understanding the circumcision of Christ where the heart of man ( the inner man in Christ ) has been "cut away" from the body of flesh which has the law of sin in it is vital to the revelation that we are free from sin. Col. 2:11 & Rom. 7:17-22 & Rom. 6:14
( Of course they then accuse others of loving sinning and being unbelievers...etc. )
Wake up my friend. You can no longer sin once you are out of the body, but until then, as long as you walk around in that flesh you have ,you will sin. But remember this. If God had wanted you to worship him with your flesh .,he would have told you so. but he knew you could not and would not. That is why he said you must worship him in truth and in spirit. The spirit man that is within your flesh is what you must worship him with. And the truth is that you are a sinner by nature in the flesh. If you worship him in truth and in spirit,then no matter what the flesh does, as long as you can keep it under submission the best you can, then you are righteous in God's sight. Moses, ABraham, Isaac, and Jacob is a witness to that. The thing is that you must not let your flesh cause you to give up. The race does not go to the swift, or strong, but to the one that endureth to the end. keep fighting my friend.
Jesus said if a branch not bear fruit, it will be cut of and burn, and the fruit of the Holy Spirit is love, not sin
I believe it mean as long as we in flesh we doing sin, but in the same time we bear a fruit, love other.
examlple Paul admit doing sin but Paul demonstrate his love fellow man by giving his life to spread good news of salvation.
and the biggest gift to our lover is salvation.
we may give our son a million dollar, if we rich, but this million dollar only last about 80 years than he die and not able to enjoy his money anymore
but if you give salvation, mean you give a billion dollar palace/heaven and he will 1000 time enjoy it for billions years
paul dedicate himself to guide people to rich billions dollar palace. Mean he he bear fruit, in the ane time he admit, he did sin, though he did not want it
I believe it mean as long as we in flesh we doing sin, but in the same time we bear a fruit, love other.
examlple Paul admit doing sin but Paul demonstrate his love fellow man by giving his life to spread good news of salvation.
and the biggest gift to our lover is salvation.
we may give our son a million dollar, if we rich, but this million dollar only last about 80 years than he die and not able to enjoy his money anymore
but if you give salvation, mean you give a billion dollar palace/heaven and he will 1000 time enjoy it for billions years
paul dedicate himself to guide people to rich billions dollar palace. Mean he he bear fruit, in the ane time he admit, he did sin, though he did not want it
I understand what you are saying. we cannot worship God once we have departed from this body. You can only worship him while we yet live in this sinful flesh. A spirit filled person will not willfully sin because he knows better as the Holy Spirit will bring about a conviction in your heart. The spirit man says no to sin, but the flesh says yes, now the two are a war with the other. Sometime we are overcome by the flesh, but it will not be willful.
Excellent,now that deserves rep points.
Who will hide in the light? Well, the children of the devil are not in the light so that eliminates them.
And, His Children, who He has ordained as the light and salt of the world need not hide anything of that which they have become and are growing in. Perfect love cast out fear, therefore, greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world. so by the will of God we are light to the world as we simply are in Christ - ("in," being a granted position and an experience of obedience (Volitionally)). Christians are separate from the world in Christ, But Jesus didn't ask God to take us from this earth since we no longer are from it, He prayed to God to protect us as He sent His Saints into the world as the light of the world to preach the good news to all peoples; using us as co-workers in Christ to do God's perfect will and our reasonable service .
So, why would Christians hide in that which God has ordained and empowered us to be in Christ? - the light of the world. We are the evidence of a transformed life in Christ, God wants them to see this to bring Glory to Himself. The will of God is to show His love and glory in our weaknesses (Not in our disobedience to God in our sinning - labelled as a natural weakness, for in Christ we are now to kill the things of the flesh), thus, it is He whom we can boast and no one else, as we do as He wills us to do. For He is why our illumination to the world; seeing whom we have become, and are growing in, in the realness of that change,are the light in contrast to the darkness of the world and its bondage.
Of course, if we label ourselves in Christ, but are not truly in Him; unless a man is willing to cross over from death unto life he is ashamed of the light which is beyond his ability, and it thereby judges him and convicts him by way the Holy Spirit.. If a Christian hides in the light he too has not come to terms with his death on the Cross with Christ. He may have believed, but he has not yet received Him in his belief, thereby not truly believing fully.
Despite being separate from the world in Christ, he struggles in staying in Christ because he still loves the world, and is unwilling to obey Jesus yet. Understanding this, he also, is ashamed to be seen in the world labelled as light to them, for he is not in Christ, therefore he is not the light of the world. These have not made their Savior also their Lord; they have not fully received Christ.. The Word says we are hidden in Christ Jesus, not hidden in the position Jesus says we are in to the world - the light to the world because we are hidden in Christ and fully dependent on Him and obedient to His will being seen by those in the world as the glory of God in the transformation of our lives in Him..God need not call us to "do the light of the world." We are the light of the world because of the realness in our transformed life in Christ. The life lived out as Jesus is our Savior and Lord; even as he continues to finish His work in us. Not to cover our endless sinning. How is that light in comparison to darkness?
And, His Children, who He has ordained as the light and salt of the world need not hide anything of that which they have become and are growing in. Perfect love cast out fear, therefore, greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world. so by the will of God we are light to the world as we simply are in Christ - ("in," being a granted position and an experience of obedience (Volitionally)). Christians are separate from the world in Christ, But Jesus didn't ask God to take us from this earth since we no longer are from it, He prayed to God to protect us as He sent His Saints into the world as the light of the world to preach the good news to all peoples; using us as co-workers in Christ to do God's perfect will and our reasonable service .
So, why would Christians hide in that which God has ordained and empowered us to be in Christ? - the light of the world. We are the evidence of a transformed life in Christ, God wants them to see this to bring Glory to Himself. The will of God is to show His love and glory in our weaknesses (Not in our disobedience to God in our sinning - labelled as a natural weakness, for in Christ we are now to kill the things of the flesh), thus, it is He whom we can boast and no one else, as we do as He wills us to do. For He is why our illumination to the world; seeing whom we have become, and are growing in, in the realness of that change,are the light in contrast to the darkness of the world and its bondage.
Of course, if we label ourselves in Christ, but are not truly in Him; unless a man is willing to cross over from death unto life he is ashamed of the light which is beyond his ability, and it thereby judges him and convicts him by way the Holy Spirit.. If a Christian hides in the light he too has not come to terms with his death on the Cross with Christ. He may have believed, but he has not yet received Him in his belief, thereby not truly believing fully.
Despite being separate from the world in Christ, he struggles in staying in Christ because he still loves the world, and is unwilling to obey Jesus yet. Understanding this, he also, is ashamed to be seen in the world labelled as light to them, for he is not in Christ, therefore he is not the light of the world. These have not made their Savior also their Lord; they have not fully received Christ.. The Word says we are hidden in Christ Jesus, not hidden in the position Jesus says we are in to the world - the light to the world because we are hidden in Christ and fully dependent on Him and obedient to His will being seen by those in the world as the glory of God in the transformation of our lives in Him..God need not call us to "do the light of the world." We are the light of the world because of the realness in our transformed life in Christ. The life lived out as Jesus is our Savior and Lord; even as he continues to finish His work in us. Not to cover our endless sinning. How is that light in comparison to darkness?
I am accountable to God for the way I control my body under His authority. Paul said he did not “set aside the grace of God”— make it ineffective (Galatians 2:21). The grace of God is absolute and limitless, and the work of salvation through Jesus is complete and finished forever. I am not being saved— I am saved. Salvation is as eternal as God’s throne, but I must put to work or use what God has placed within me. To “work out (my) own salvation” (Philippians 2:12) means that I am responsible for using what He has given me. It also means that I must exhibit in my own body the life of the Lord Jesus, not mysteriously or secretly, but openly and boldly. “I discipline my body and bring it into subjection . . .” (1 Corinthians 9:27).
Every Christian can have his body under absolute control for God. God has given us the responsibility to rule over all “the temple of the Holy Spirit,” including our thoughts and desires (1 Corinthians 6:19). We are responsible for these, and we must never give way to improper ones. But most of us are much more severe in our judgment of others than we are in judging ourselves. We make excuses for things in ourselves, while we condemn things in the lives of others simply because we are not naturally inclined to do them.
Paul said, "I beseech you...that you present your bodies a living sacrifice..." (Romans 12:1). What I must decide is whether or not I will agree with my Lord and Master (my Savior and Lord) that my body will indeed be His temple. Once I agree, all the rules, regulations, and requirements of the law concerning the body are summed up for me in this revealed truth - my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
You see, Salvation is not Salvation if it is solely placed on reputation. We are only what we are in the dark. What God looks at is what we are in the dark - the imaginations of our minds; the thoughts of our heart; the habits of our bodies. These are the things that mark us in God's sight.
Every Christian can have his body under absolute control for God. God has given us the responsibility to rule over all “the temple of the Holy Spirit,” including our thoughts and desires (1 Corinthians 6:19). We are responsible for these, and we must never give way to improper ones. But most of us are much more severe in our judgment of others than we are in judging ourselves. We make excuses for things in ourselves, while we condemn things in the lives of others simply because we are not naturally inclined to do them.
Paul said, "I beseech you...that you present your bodies a living sacrifice..." (Romans 12:1). What I must decide is whether or not I will agree with my Lord and Master (my Savior and Lord) that my body will indeed be His temple. Once I agree, all the rules, regulations, and requirements of the law concerning the body are summed up for me in this revealed truth - my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
You see, Salvation is not Salvation if it is solely placed on reputation. We are only what we are in the dark. What God looks at is what we are in the dark - the imaginations of our minds; the thoughts of our heart; the habits of our bodies. These are the things that mark us in God's sight.
Last edited: