The truth behind the Law

[KJV1611]

Nice response.

I don't understand why threads like this exist... they go against the principle of the 10 and 2 and the whole bible for that matter.

 

[Rachmiel]

Way I see it the Law exists whether you like or not
And though we no longer need to put the heathens to death
There's consequences when the Law is transgressed
Even for atheists they cannot escape though they do not believe

I mean here is a wise and foolish example
Let's say I go and lose my virginity to your wife
Then let's say you catch us in bed, shall I be excused that I'm not under Law?
Or should I really not be too surprised if you take away my life?

Or let us say I go and become a thief
And I'll steal everything from you
Will grace be shown to me as many claim is their belief?
Or is it more likely I'll be put into prison until I repay every piece?

Or let us go even to the utter extreme
And pretend I am moved to follow other gods
On the Judgement Day to whom would I make my appeal?
Athena, Vishnu, and Allah can't save you because they're not even real.

Now the Law cannot save you, it's only there to teach
And to bring death and painful consequences when there is a breach
Only Jesus full of justice and mercy can grant your reprieve
And for that God's grace is simply that in Jesus you must believe

 

[Meggido]

True as that may be, keeping the Law does not replace His sacrifice at all.

Yes it does, because you faith is in the Law not the all sufficient sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

 

[miknik5]

I don't understand why threads like this exist... they go against the principle of the 10 and 2 and the whole bible for that matter.

I thought rainrider was trying to preach THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST and was against those who will try to justify themselves by the LAW...for even Romans clearly states that GOD has turned all over to disobedience so that HE alone will be exalted for HIS WORK and MERCY.

As well, since the LAW already says and declares none righteous, there is no one who does good and never sins, how can anyone open their mouth before GOD and say otherwise?

All mouths will be silenced and the whole world accountable to GOD.
To be just when HE judges and the justifier of all whose faith is in HIS SON


Both of these mentioned in Romans, should clearly bring one to understanding Paul's opening recap letter preaching the RIGHTEOUSNESS of GOD which is now made known which is from faith to faith...

 

[miknik5]

Way I see it the Law exists whether you like or not
And though we no longer need to put the heathens to death
There's consequences when the Law is transgressed
Even for atheists they cannot escape though they do not believe

I mean here is a wise and foolish example
Let's say I go and lose my virginity to your wife
Then let's say you catch us in bed, shall I be excused that I'm not under Law?
Or should I really not be too surprised if you take away my life?

Or let us say I go and become a thief
And I'll steal everything from you
Will grace be shown to me as many claim is their belief?
Or is it more likely I'll be put into prison until I repay every piece?

Or let us go even to the utter extreme
And pretend I am moved to follow other gods
On the Judgement Day to whom would I make my appeal?
Athena, Vishnu, and Allah can't save you because they're not even real.

Now the Law cannot save you, it's only there to teach
And to bring death and painful consequences when there is a breach
Only Jesus full of justice and mercy can grant your reprieve
And for that God's grace is simply that in Jesus you must believe

And GOD's GRACE is not a free license to sin...
The WORD says what is the outcome of those who think this...

 

[Meggido]

Thats an easy one. I won't place any scripture here, as it would take way to long. The list would be close to the whole of the Torah.
HaShem in his wisdom, gave us a set of laws to live by. He also placed the laws in an orderly fashion for us. He took the time to divide them into both life stills, and peoples. (That is an over simplification,sorry) It is on us to study them out, seek out laws are meant for what Peoples, and so on. The laws that are for all Peoples, would be the ones that we should follow.
I know I heard it many times, "They were all give only to the Jewish people." That however is not true. When I hear this I simply know in my hear that someone needs to take a class on Biblical Law. You see there are Laws that were given long before there were any Hebrew people. That is what we must know, follow, and live by. After all IN Rev. as I pointed out, are we not told that saints keep the law, and the faith .
I am always left with the idea that for a person to say they follow Torah, others think, "they keep the sacrifices, oh my they are going to burn in Hell." I find that thinking sad, and Yes I have bee told that. Even though even the Hebrew People were told HaShem didn't want that from them. That comes from the OT.
I know this is way short, of everything that went through my mind, yet it does kind of answer your question in full.

Do you require women in your household to stay outside in the backyard for 7 days during their menstrual cycles?

If you do not your guilty of breaking every law you seem to think you need to follow...If you come back and tell us that the hygiene laws are not for today, you are still guilty of breaking the all of the law, because you did not keep the hygiene laws...

James 2.10-CJB-
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But if you show favoritism, your actions constitute sin, since you are convicted under the Torah as transgressors.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For a person who keeps the whole Torah, yet stumbles at one point, has become guilty of breaking them all. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For the One who said, “Don’t commit adultery,” also said, “Don’t murder.” Now, if you don’t commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the Torah.

 

[KJV1611]

I thought rainrider was trying to preach THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST and was against those who will try to justify themselves by the LAW...for even Romans clearly states that GOD has turned all over to disobedience so that HE alone will be exalted for HIS WORK and MERCY.

As well, since the LAW already says and declares none righteous, there is no one who does good and never sins, how can anyone open their mouth before GOD and say otherwise?

All mouths will be silenced and the whole world accountable to GOD.
To be just when HE judges and the justifier of all whose faith is in HIS SON


Both of these mentioned in Romans, should clearly bring one to understanding Paul's opening recap letter preaching the RIGHTEOUSNESS of GOD which is now made known which is from faith to faith...

There is no law for the Christian, all things are lawful.

 

[Willie-T]

True as that may be, keeping the Law does not replace His sacrifice at all.

Yes it does, because you faith is in the Law not the all sufficient sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

So true. This seems to have been the main problem the Galatians had. The sacrifice of Jesus was good enough.... but just in case, they bought a little extra fire insurance by mixing the Law back into what He originally did to actually fully satisfy it.

 

[miknik5]

There is no law for the Christian, all things are lawful.

Oh but you are supposed to bring ALL your works into THE LIGHT to discern and make the right judgment of what is wrought in GOD...

And if it isn't, GOD will certainly make it known...

HE does discipline HIS CHILDREN...when they go outside what is right and pure and holy...

 

[miknik5]

So true. This seems to have been the main problem the Galatians had. The sacrifice of Jesus was good enough.... but just in case, they bought a little extra fire insurance by mixing the Law back into what He originally did to actually fully satisfy it.

Why? Was it because they were left to their own after Paul had preached the GOSPEL?
Or was it because "false apostles" were suggesting "other ways"?


When we listen to men and do not know THE LORD for ourselves, we run the risk of not being able to discern "yeast" from THE PURE UNADULTERATED WORD AND TRUTH of GOD...

 

[miknik5]

Oh but you are supposed to bring ALL your works into THE LIGHT to discern and make the right judgment of what is wrought in GOD...

And if it isn't, GOD will certainly make it known...

HE does discipline HIS CHILDREN...when they go outside what is right and pure and holy...

And for one purpose.
So that our faith MORE PRECIOUS than GOLD though tried in the fire will PROVE GENUINE...resulting in HIS PRAISE and HIS GLORY alone...

If we are to boast...let it be IN THE LORD and what HE has done for us...that we may serve GOD in the NEWNESS of LIFE...with the only acceptable form of worship...I life lived for HIS GLORY alone...

 

[Meggido]

As you wish. Though you will find that I never said teh Law would bring slavation. In fact I have said many times, and will say many more times the Salvation has always and will always come by faith. Even Abraham was granted salvation not by owkrs but by faith.

Abraham was not under the Law....so why are you?

 

[miknik5]

I wish that I could do all that I say and know.
But I can't.
Therefore I am always left to this...MY FAITH in HIS FAITHFULNESS and my FAITH that HIS WORD and PROMISES are steadfast and sure...

and they are...
That is why MY HOPE is in HIM...that HE will complete the GOOD work HE began in me...even when I can't see any good in what I do but that HE alone is MY GOOD...

 

[KJV1611]

Oh but you are supposed to bring ALL your works into THE LIGHT to discern and make the right judgment of what is wrought in GOD...

And if it isn't, GOD will certainly make it known...

HE does discipline HIS CHILDREN...when they go outside what is right and pure and holy...

If it's wrought in God, then God did it not me. That's the beauty of grace, God does all the work... I don't TRY to be good, if I'm good then it's the goodness of God coming through me. This is the promised land!

 

[Meggido]

I love it! Same old thing..... a list of laws to talk about Law.

It's what lawyers do, right?

 

[miknik5]

If it's wrought in God, then God did it not me. That's the beauty of grace, God does all the work... I don't TRY to be good, if I'm good then it's the goodness of God coming through me. This is the promised land!

I have been disciplined, KJV...and I tell you that it is NOT PLEASANT...but afterwards...yes, there is this understanding that righteousness is not based on who I want to show MY LIGHT and LOVE to...but that I should understand that I am to let MY LIGHT and LOVE fall on all...even when I don't want to or something in me says not to...I have to...

That is PURE and HOLY and UNBIASED and IMPARTIAL RIGHTEOUSNESS...

And I had to learn this in a very hard and unpleasant and fearful way...

 

[KJV1611]

I have been disciplined, KJV...and I tell you that it is NOT PLEASANT...but afterwards...yes, there is this understanding that righteousness is not based on who I want to show MY LIGHT and LOVE to...but that I should understand that I am to let MY LIGHT and LOVE fall on all...even when I don't want to or something in me says not to...I have to...

That is PURE and HOLY and UNBIASED and IMPARTIAL RIGHTEOUSNESS...

And I had to learn this in a very hard and unpleasant and fearful way...

I've had my share of spankings too.

 

[Rachmiel]

And GOD's GRACE is not a free license to sin...
The WORD says what is the outcome of those who think this...

Well exactly that is indeed the point
If they think it's a license
They're still under Law
And the consequences will be mete
If I go and have a good old jolly time with you
Your husband might put me to death
Or if I come and steal your possessions
I'll be singing jailhouse blues with my breath
Or even if I am just a little bit jealous
Then I'll simply never know to be content

So the Law is not totally without some merit
It's just not something that saves
It is more like a teacher
Something to ponder on and consider
And there is wisdom in the Law's ways
Taking hold of madness and folly like Solomon says

 

[Meggido]

Why? Was it because they were left to their own after Paul had preached the GOSPEL?
Or was it because "false apostles" were suggesting "other ways"?


When we listen to men and do not know THE LORD for ourselves, we run the risk of not being able to discern "yeast" from THE PURE UNADULTERATED WORD AND TRUTH of GOD...

Paul never preached the law as you do mik...he was telling the Galatians to stop listening to those who tried to put them back under the law....kinda like you and rain...

In fact if you read through this thread we see Galatians being played out perfectly....

rainrider, beta, mik- we are saved by faith, but you need the law to make sure you are ok

perfectly-wow, really, but I am already saved by faith...are you sure I need to obey all the laws to stay spotless and clean?

rainrider, beta, mik- yes dear you must, its a unknown fact the law keeps you clean

perfectly-- think I will pass

Milwaukee, me, KJ1611, grace7, willie and other----being apostle Paul to your foolishness

 

[Meggido]

If it's wrought in God, then God did it not me. That's the beauty of grace, God does all the work... I don't TRY to be good, if I'm good then it's the goodness of God coming through me. This is the promised land!

Romans 11.6

[SUP]6 [/SUP]But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.