Not By Works

[BillG]

I have seen this too.. One of the reasons I did not like it,, It just seems like part of that ritualistic stuff I am gld to be out of.

We need to stop up and get help. That part i agree with, but there has to be a better way so people do not say look at me.

I sometimes wondered if a significant other made them do it, I saw alot of divorces after people supposedly rededicated themselves.

Its a difficult one.
It does worry me that people look to the caller rather than Jesus.

Spent most of my Christian life doing it.

 

[Seekingfamily]

Yes, it is written. I am just wondering if this is for unrepented ones? I will not say my abusers will go there, I will know once we get the throne. I do believe one can repent, and I refect on when Jesus cast many legions out of that one man. I do know they are vile, when they stay with "What I did was not wrong!" or "I din't do that!"

 

[Meggido]

Its a difficult one.
It does worry me that people look to the caller rather than Jesus.

Spent most of my Christian life doing it.

at least you have the integrity to admit it Bill...

 

[FranC]

No, it is not a requirement, The law demands requirments, Grace demands faith.

People who have true faith WILL have works. You evidently believe one can have faith and not have works.. Which tells me you do not understand what true faith is.

so instead of trying to learn what it means, You have it in your mind your going to earn salvation by your works, . Good luck..

And there you have it (Freddie Mercury)
It is NOT NECESSARY to have good works.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Those who truly repent will go to heaven.. Those who are NOT sorry that they murdered and molested someone's child, will indeed burn in hell..

Yes, it is written. I am just wondering if this is for unrepented ones? I will not say my abusers will go there, I will know once we get the throne. I do believe one can repent, and I refect on when Jesus cast many legions out of that one man. I do know they are vile, when they stay with "What I did was not wrong!" or "I din't do that!"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Many, many years ago I was in charge of the Altar workers at a avg sized church-150-250 people. We had the same people coming up all the time. One guy in particular kept coming up and asking for prayer to get rid of his demon of anger...

I told him this...first, there is no demon of anger, it is a work of the flesh, second, I am not praying for you to get over your anger any more because you like your anger to much to surrender it to Jesus.

He stomped off and oh my the elders tried to make hay out of it and me...The Pastor said I discerned correctly....

The guy stopped coming to church and a few weeks later and one evening the Pastor called and asked me to join him on a hospital visit.

We got to the Hospital and the mans wife was there and said, Pastor thank you for bringing Meggido....you need to go see him Meggido...I walked into the room and the man looked like he had gone through a plate glass window. Both eyes swollen, cuts all over his face, broken bones, breathing on a ventilator, alive but very broken up.

The man told me how he loved getting mad and decided to get mad and take out some rage on a few guys at the local honky tonk....He met his match and nearly died in the bar fight....he began sobbing and said, ya know what preacher man...I want to get rid of that anger now...

Fast forward 2 years later and he is now elder in his church and living for God and has put anger into the hands of Jesus and does not suffer from it any longer.

We see unchanged lives because of easy believing mental assent...that suggests we are only a work in progress of God and do nothing to renew our minds or change our lives...in ongoing sanctification there is God's part and your part...this has nothing at all to do with salvation or keeping it...

This is what I see as rededication, I have seen this many times also. Thanks for the testimony, I see this alot in the church I go to now, especially with drug addicts Alcoholics and sex addicts who finally stopped trying to stop on their own, and got into a discipleship accountability relationship with people. and finally allowed God to change them.

Not sure about your dig at grace. or that it was even necessary, Grace did not cause the man to go sin, The man sinned because he wanted to And he thought tradition was the way to break it, (why he kept going forward) Legalistic ritualism will not help anyone break from their sin issues,
He broke it when he was finally able to just in humility coming to his knees and asking for Grace and the power to overcome..

 

[FranC]

We are counted as righteous not because of Christs righteousness but because of our
faith, like Abraham was counted righteous because of his faith.

Our behaviour needs to be blameless, but it is our relationship with the Father that
brings us righteousness.

The other view is Christs righteousness covers us, so God does not see our sin.
This leads to countless errors of relationship and belief.

We go from darkness into light because our sins are forgiven through the cross.
Christs righteousness makes this possible.

This is the reason for the dispute between Wesley and Whitefield, and the whole
discussion about future sin forgiven or we can walk righteously empowered by the Spirit.

It is a shift that Augustine started, that Luther and Calvin continued. But to be honest most
believers have no clue it even exists. It excuses failure and the struggle with our hearts and
our behaviour which Paul talks about in Romans 7.

Paul talks about the flesh dominating until he came to faith in Christ, and died with Christ,
and rose in the Spirit to victory over sin.

If you do not sin in the future, future sin forgiven is irrelevant but is actually a statement
of unbelief, because sin is too frivously defined and lived.

It would be intereseting to discuss this with you sometime...

 

[dcontroversal]

If I have my English correct, you don't mean conflate, you mean confuse.
learn the difference and stop using the word conflate.

I used the word on purpose to make a point...guess it went above your head....

con·flate
kənˈflāt/
verb
verb: conflate; 3rd person present: conflates; past tense: conflated; past participle: conflated; gerund or present participle: conflating

• combine (two or more texts, ideas, etc.) into one.
  "the urban crisis conflates a number of different economic and social issues"
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]mix, blend, fuse, unite, integrate "the plot gets weighed down when the writers conflate too many issues into one episode"
  
  
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
  Originally Posted by dcontroversal
  
  I do love my brothers and sisters in Christ.....you seem to conflate love for a brother with my hatred of the false working for dogma that you and a few others push.....I have no problem with you per se, just what you espouse and teach which waters down and tramples under foot the blood and sacrifice of Jesus...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Tears in my eyes and jumping with joy for deliverance and restoration.
I get your point.

It seems to me this man came forward for a persistent problem, and God has used you.

Amen, It is great when God uses us, And helps build our faith also. I am sure meggido's faith was strengthened (at least I hope it was)

 

[dcontroversal]

Not "like" normal...

"as" normal...

What I said was fine.....LIKE NORMAL..........!

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Sure....I remember him calling me a psychopath and a few other names...so...either you have a poor memory, don't read or just sweep the truth under the table like normal....

Both are grammatically correct.....!

 

[FranC]

Does the following talk about imputed righteousness?

Romans 3:21-26
God's Righteousness Through Faith
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

This should be a thread.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Its a difficult one.
It does worry me that people look to the caller rather than Jesus.

Spent most of my Christian life doing it.

Sadly I did too.. I feel like I wasted so much of my life..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And there you have it (Freddie Mercury)
It is NOT NECESSARY to have good works.

to be saved. No, Thats legalism

For christian growth, Yes, Otherwise you will remain stagnant, or a babe in christ (yet you will still do some work)

Again, Works will happen, There is not a question

the only person questioning a person of God having works is you..

So thanks again for slandering me with a 1/2 truth

If your going to say I do not believe works are required, at least be honest, and add to it, in order to keep saved.. Then you will not be in error. otherwise, You just decieving people into thinking I believe something which is not true.

 

[FranC]

I can see how you could intperpret that. I would disagree with them, for one the thief did have works, He called out and confessed Jesus was lord to the other thief.

I must ask, if you do not believe those were works. If the thief would have lived longer, would he have had works if he had true saving faith, or would he continued to live in sin, like some insinuate?

Wow. Speak about being demanding!

You say the thief on the cross HAD TO HAVE WORKS to be saved???

I hope I misunderstood...

 

[Meggido]

Amen, It is great when God uses us, And helps build our faith also. I am sure meggido's faith was strengthened (at least I hope it was)

It was when he finally surrendered his work of the flesh...it broke my heart he had to surrender it by almost losing his life...

Many would suggest I was not helping him and many in that church said it was my fault he got beat up and nearly died....not so, Gal 6.7...

This is also why, like you and Bill I dislike Altar calls with people responding...especially in mega churches...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This should be a thread.

I agree,, would love to see a thread about imputed righteousness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow. Speak about being demanding!

You say the thief on the cross HAD TO HAVE WORKS to be saved???

I hope I misunderstood...

No, I said if he had true saving faith, He would have had works. Because faith works.

ie, he di dnot have mental ascent, or easy believism.

 

[FranC]

Originally Posted by FranC

Funny.

I never read peter Jens call anyone a derogatory name.

Much as I hear from "your side".

Wonder why that is?
Wonder WHO is following the word of God?




He has called me every name in the book like - satanic, a lover of sinning, heretic, delusional, a hater of those that walk righteously, a hater of God's word and a hater of the words of Jesus....etc.

I asked him several times to stop this ungodly behavior but he kept at it - so unfortunately I had to put him on ignore and not interact with him anymore until there is repentance.

I think it so amusing that some of those that say we are to walk righteously and in purity of heart have some of the worse behavior I have ever witnessed among Christians. I don't see any difference between this sort of behavior and those Christians that say it's ok to live the homosexual lifestyle.

I'd agree. I just haven't noticed it since I've been here.
But I notice Dcon saying derogatory things every time (almost) that he posts.

What I've noticed.
I could be wrong.

 

[stonesoffire]

Here we go again Stone.

What are you saying?

If Peter believes not in imputed righteousness...
and he has his doctrine wrong...
then he is lost?

So it's our doctrine that saves us?
I thought it was Jesus that saves us.

You do have God in a really tiny little box.
But have no fear, He's not staying in there just to please YOU.

I don't think God is in a tiny box. I've found this to be not true. That's why I say that it's a living fellowship with Him and not following rules that are written. The works that the Lord has for me may not be the same as those for you. It's all about the individual plan that He has for us all. So we are led.

What I said is if Peter doesn't have the righteousness of God through Jesus Christ, then he hasn't been transferred from the kingdom of darkness, to the Kingdom of Light.

Its the only way to Father...through the door. So what is he trusting in?

Our righteousness must be greater than the scribes and Pharisees...and that is only His.

Am just taking a short break. Much to do today...lol work of course but of mine, not His. Unless I get interrupted.

Later..

Oh, and when I like a post, there is an idea that I see that I am in agreement with. Personal words I just gloss over.

It helps to not get offended.

 

[Meggido]

I agree,, would love to see a thread about imputed righteousness.

This is one of the most misunderstood gifts in the Bible... imputed righteousness is position not personal-performance