The truth behind the Law

[PerfectlyImperfect]

And you would be right.
Mat 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good?[fn] No one is good but One, that is, God.[fn] But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

New verse for me to write down!

 

[Desertsrose]

That would be somewhat relative how. It would also some what subjective, as one would first need to know the answer to 2 things. What Heaven are you speaking of, As we know Gen1:1 uses the word HEAVENS. Next would be what earth is being spoken of. The Jewish people for much longer than you may think understood that this earth has an exasperation date.
The really cool part of that, even Ulta Orthodox Jews, (some not all) teach of the Heave and earth being rolled up as if it were a scroll.

It does't really matter what the Jews thought, nor the gentiles for that matter. Since Jesus is the one who said it, we need to ask what Jesus meant by heaven and earth.

 

[Rainrider]

I just want to point out a fact that gets overlooked and swept under the rug....Jesus lived and died under the law, under the Old Covenant...His death RATIFIED the NEW Covenant.....we cannot forget this fact...his responses to the people around him were and are based upon this fact....HE also said he had many things to teach the disciples, but they were not yet ready....I personally believe he was limited because the NEW Covenant had not yet been ratified....the words he references are found in the Pauline Epistles.....just saying.

That has not been over looked by anyone that I remember. However their is a bit of a division as to just that New Covenant is. It seems that what the Bible tells us is not sufficient.

 

[miknik5]

But when you check out the scriptures I quoted you must surely see that only the 10 have survived being eternal and have come down to us today ? No Sir...God spoke to the people personally, like talking to you and me today...we should never refuse to hear Him as they did at Sinai...sadly some still do and cause a lot of grief and misunderstanding in christianity.

What helps even more is deuteronomy 18
and the reason why GOD said they have spoken well

I just looked at Deut, 18, I didn't what you are speaking of. Did I miss something? I most likely have, I will look at some other translation to see. Please if you don't mind, can you lend a hand on this though.
Thank you my friend.

GOD knew they didn't want to hear HIM
They were afraid and said to Moses. Let us not hear HIS VOICE again lest we perish

and GOD said in Deuteronomy 18:9When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, one that useth divination, a soothsayer, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer, 11or a charmer, or one that consulteth a ghost or a familiar spirit, or a necromancer. 12For whosoever doeth these things is an abomination unto the LORD; and because of these abominations the LORD thy God is driving them out from before thee. 13Thou shalt be whole-hearted with the LORD thy God. 14For these nations, that thou art to dispossess, hearken unto soothsayers, and unto diviners; but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.


15A prophet will the LORD thy God raise up unto thee, from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;16according to all that thou didst desire of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying: ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.’ 17And the LORD said unto me: ‘They have well said that which they have spoken. 18I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.

 

[Rainrider]

It does't really matter what the Jews thought, nor the gentiles for that matter. Since Jesus is the one who said it, we need to ask what Jesus meant by heaven and earth.

That is why I asked how it was relevant. I may have used a different word though. Not that it would mater, I know it would have lead to the same thing. I am glad I am not the only that seen that though, thank you.

 

[miknik5]

Read vs 19 of Deuteronomy 18
GOD has actually made it a "law"/"commandment" that all are required to LISTEN TO HIS SON

 

[graceNpeace]

To anyone who claims to keep the Law:

If you are a male - have you been ritually circumcised according to the Law,

Do you hold to every dietary restriction in the Law,

Please explain your system of ritual sacrifice given that the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70.

Points to consider:
If you say you keep the Law then you are obliged to follow it to the letter (Matt 5:18).
I do not want to hear you say that this and that is set aside BUT this and that is still binding.
The Law is a PACKAGE DEAL - it is an all or nothing deal!

You either take your stand for righteousness on the Law, or, (if one is a Christian), then you take your stand on the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ as demonstrated by His sacrifice on the cross (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[miknik5]

We're not talking about "Christianity" (as following a form of religion) as Beta said


We're talking about CHRIST

everybody can practice religion

but as Romans 19 says, it's with the heart one believes before the eyes of HOD

So playactubg at following rules and religion but not truly believing upon the heart is not overlooked or hidden from GOD

 

[Rainrider]

To anyone who claims to keep the Law:

If you are a male - have you been ritually circumcised according to the Law,

Do you hold to every dietary restriction in the Law,

Please explain your system of ritual sacrifice given that the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70.

Points to consider:
If you say you keep the Law then you are obliged to follow it to the letter (Matt 5:18).
I do not want to hear you say that this and that is set aside BUT this and that is still binding.
The Law is a PACKAGE DEAL - it is an all or nothing deal!

You either take your stand for righteousness on the Law, or, (if one is a Christian), then you take your stand on the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ as demonstrated by His sacrifice on the cross (Eph 2:8-9).

I don't wish to sond rude, I am simply making a point. Learn the Law before you misspeak.

 

[graceNpeace]

I don't wish to sond rude, I am simply making a point. Learn the Law before you misspeak.

I think you need to clarify your ambiguity.

 

[Rainrider]

We're not talking about "Christianity" (as following a form of religion) as Beta said


We're talking about CHRIST

everybody can practice religion

but as Romans 19 says, it's with the heart one believes before the eyes of HOD

So playactubg at following rules and religion but not truly believing upon the heart is not overlooked or hidden from GOD

Can the 2 be separated? I am asking as it does at times seem they can't. You also being a person that has made it clear you are doing your best to look at both sides, I didn't feel that would offend you. If it did I am sorry.

 

[dcontroversal]

That has not been over looked by anyone that I remember. However their is a bit of a division as to just that New Covenant is. It seems that what the Bible tells us is not sufficient.

Actually, it is overlooked by many and leads to error....as far as the last statement...why the sarcasm? My point was valid!

 

[Rainrider]

Actually, it is overlooked by many and leads to error....as far as the last statement...why the sarcasm? My point was valid!

I meant no sarcasm. I was simply making the point that with some people, if you point out what the Word says the New covenant is, From the Bible, it simply isn't good enough for them. I do understand that you made a valid point, yet the point I have made is as well.
I may have found a different way to say it, I can give you that. However, the meaning would not have changed.

 

[beta]

if your going to preach works and obedience are required for salvation

the law is the only guide you have, because the law is the only guide that can condemn you

ot mentality? Grace was taught in the OT also, no one was ever saved by being obedient enough t earn the right to be gods child all men or women who will be saved have been and will be saved by grace through faith, even job spoke that he knew his redeemer would come. David understood the law was useless in saving him and no one in the OT could live up to the standard of the law, so the law would condemn them as much as it does us who have not come in faith,

Afraid it is you who have things 'back to front while still thinking OT.
NOW faith is first...obedience and good works follow Rev 14v12, 13. hope that helps !

 

[miknik5]

Typo

play acting

 

[Rainrider]

I think you need to clarify your ambiguity.

The Law as I have said many times, is divided, there are laws that fit the Jewish people, and are not for the gentile. There are laws for the sacrifices as well. One being they are only to be done in the Temple, on the alter of HaShem. So when a person post things that
1 hold no sway over a gentile, yet they wish to push it off them,. Does show a lack of understanding, and/or knowledge.
2 When it comes to sacrifice, One should take a little time to rad up on them, Not just the Torah, rather slow down and one or two things out side of that. Like say,
Isa 1:11
“What makes you think I want all your sacrifices?” says the LORD. “I am sick of your burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fattened cattle. I get no pleasure from the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
Jer 6:20
There's no use offering me sweet frankincense from Sheba. Keep your fragrant calamus imported from distant lands!
I will not accept your burnt offerings. Your sacrifices have no pleasing aroma for me.”
Psa 40:6 You take no delight in sacrifices or offerings. Now that you have made me listen, I finally understand—you don’t require burnt offerings or sin offerings.
Hos 6:6
I want you to show love, not offer sacrifices. I want you to know me more than I want burnt offerings.

So I repeat, learn fist, then speak. I am not trying to be condescending, only helpful. It has always been a given, that one a person has seen a thing enough times, they grow wiry of it, and may strike out in a bad manner. If you have kids I am sure you understand that.
True it is no excuse, yet it is on me. I can own that I may act with out thinking at times. What I would like to see just once, is others to do the same.

 

[Rainrider]

Typo

play acting

?????? If you are trying to make me think I lost my mid to late, I know I have. Had it out to play with it last night, and I think my cat stole it.

 

[Grace777x70]

I meant no sarcasm. I was simply making the point that with some people, if you point out what the Word says the New covenant is, From the Bible, it simply isn't good enough for them. I do understand that you made a valid point, yet the point I have made is as well.
I may have found a different way to say it, I can give you that. However, the meaning would not have changed.

Can you answer this question for us? If a Gentile Christian never observes the Sabbath day as outlined in the law - from Friday night until Saturday - are they sinning and dis-obeying God in your religion?

 

[beta]

I just looked at Deut, 18, I didn't what you are speaking of. Did I miss something? I most likely have, I will look at some other translation to see. Please if you don't mind, can you lend a hand on this though.
Thank you my friend.

I'm not surprised you could not make 'head or tail of Deut 18, it is a wrong refernce she used in reply to my Post regarding Deut 5 and Ex 20 when people refused to hear God. This takes a bit of explaining I will do for you if you want me to. In the meantime you might ponder Deut 5v26 which does refer to my post.

 

[Rainrider]

Can you answer this question for us? If a Gentile Christian never observes the Sabbath day as outlined in the law - from Friday night until Saturday - are they sinning and dis-obeying God in your religion?

2 things first. I never judge anyone, that is not my job. Next, the answer is just for me, and not everyone.
I follow the 7th day Sabbath, as I have found in my heart that it is something we should do. It was not, and is not a law that fits only with the Jewish people. My reason for that is this.
Gen 2:2 On the seventh day God had finished his work of creation, so he rested from all his work.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, because it was the day when he rested from all his work of creation.

As it was blessed by Him, and declared Holy, long before Sinai, It stands for everyone. Also, it the only commandment that starts with the word remember.
Exo 20:8 “Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
The it is also,
Exo 31:13 “Tell the people of Israel: ‘Be careful to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you from generation to generation. It is given so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

Please note, that this doesn't say the Sabbath makes one Holy, Only HaShem can do that. Sory if that sounded rude. It seems that I need to give that disclamure or I am seen as over looking that salvation comes ONLY BY FAITH.