Rapture= false teaching

[VW]

To quote doctor Emmet Brown from Back to the Future, "You are not thinking 4 dimensionally"

The church is an entity that did not exist before pentecost and will be completed at the rapture.
Its membership spans 2000+ years.
Millions of really mediocre members have already gone to their reward.
You are right!
The Church does need purging.
That purging will occur in Heaven before the purging known as the Tribulation occurs on Earth.
Judgement always begins in the house of God.

I agree that the tribulation is not for the church, but for the world and the nation of Israel. However, I think we are calling the tribulation 7 years, but is it really? There are 7 years of woe, but only 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation. 3 1/2 years of the testimony of the two witnesses.

I hold that there is a catching away, which is before Jesus returns to the earth. I just don't believe that it is 7 years before, but maybe 3 1/2. Actually, I see in revelations a lot of catchings away. But I see the bride in heaven at the marriage supper of the Lamb, in chapter 19. I see the multitude from the tribulation in chapter 7, from all tribes and peoples and tongues.

I don't equate our life in Christ with the resurrection. I think that these are two entirely separate things. I see the resurrection in chapter 20 as those who were dead. Jesus said that everyone who lives and believes in Him shall never die.

Blessing in His name,
vic

 

[Zilla64007]

LOL, I never thought of it that way before. Two thumbs up for this post.

here's something to consider, Lauren... how is one purged?...

if we are to be purged, or refined, it is through fire...and as far as i know, the fire that we are purged by is not found in heaven... the only way we are made pure and holy before God is through the storms of this life, trials, tribulation, and persecution. NONE OF THAT IS FOUND IN HEAVEN. How are we supposed to be in heaven when heaven is for those who are already pure and holy before God? how is one purified in heaven when the only way to BE purified and purged is through persecution and tribulation? How can one be purged in heaven?...

that sounds a bit like Roman Catholicism to me...
we are NOT purged in heaven. we are purged here on earth through tribulation and persecution. greatkraw is living in a mad-made fantasy... a fantasy which will lead him to nothing but deception and heartbreak

pre-trib always contradicts itself, and that's not even mentioning dispensationalism, the very mad-made doctrine that gave birth to pre-tribulationism

 

[greatkraw]

here's something to consider, Lauren... how is one purged?...

if we are to be purged, or refined, it is through fire...and as far as i know, the fire that we are purged by is not found in heaven... the only way we are made pure and holy before God is through the storms of this life, trials, tribulation, and persecution. NONE OF THAT IS FOUND IN HEAVEN. How are we supposed to be in heaven when heaven is for those who are already pure and holy before God? how is one purified in heaven when the only way to BE purified and purged is through persecution and tribulation? How can one be purged in heaven?...

that sounds a bit like Roman Catholicism to me...
we are NOT purged in heaven. we are purged here on earth through tribulation and persecution. greatkraw is living in a mad-made fantasy... a fantasy which will lead him to nothing but deception and heartbreak

pre-trib always contradicts itself, and that's not even mentioning dispensationalism, the very mad-made doctrine that gave birth to pre-tribulationism

1 Corinthians 3


13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


Col 3 24
Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

2 Cor 510
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[VW]

here's something to consider, Lauren... how is one purged?...

if we are to be purged, or refined, it is through fire...and as far as i know, the fire that we are purged by is not found in heaven... the only way we are made pure and holy before God is through the storms of this life, trials, tribulation, and persecution. NONE OF THAT IS FOUND IN HEAVEN. How are we supposed to be in heaven when heaven is for those who are already pure and holy before God? how is one purified in heaven when the only way to BE purified and purged is through persecution and tribulation? How can one be purged in heaven?...

that sounds a bit like Roman Catholicism to me...
we are NOT purged in heaven. we are purged here on earth through tribulation and persecution. greatkraw is living in a mad-made fantasy... a fantasy which will lead him to nothing but deception and heartbreak

pre-trib always contradicts itself, and that's not even mentioning dispensationalism, the very mad-made doctrine that gave birth to pre-tribulationism

One of the things missed about being purged is that those who have gone before us have had a test of faith which no one living has endured; they have experienced death, death of the flesh. When we see Jesus, we will be judged. Period. We will see everything, everything single thing we have done or thought or said, every action and word, as Jesus sees them. And the very motivations of our heart will be made manifest in every circumstance. I hate to say this, but this is being purged.

The trouble is, if we seek His face here and now, to know these things about ourselves now, He will reveal much, (not all, for we are not able to bear it now,) about these things to us. But so few are willing to do so, because they would rather have their deceptions, about who and what they are without God's light revealing the truth.

Jesus was always very clear about those who live in the last days, the days leading up to the end. He said that we must look up, we must have faith, we must beware that we are not deceived, that we are not quickly shaken. Why? Because as those who are destined to see the beginning of God's judgment, to know the fear of the destruction of all that we have known in this world, faced with deceptions of such magnitude as to deceive the very elect, we are those who will be blessed with having endured in faith trials which are like unto the trials He endured. And we will see an outpouring of the Holy Spirit that will take our breath away, and many, many will see God in these things, and they will believe, and these will be those who were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and who had not worshiped the beast or his image, nor had they received his mark in their forehead nor upon their hand. These are those who have come out of the great tribulation. They came out because they saw God in the church, the Spirit filled church that had the presence of God, that was as it said in the prophets, the presence of God going before them, and the glory of God remaining behind them.

If we would do as God wills, we would seek to be this church.

 

[Lauren]

here's something to consider, Lauren... how is one purged?...

if we are to be purged, or refined, it is through fire...and as far as i know, the fire that we are purged by is not found in heaven... the only way we are made pure and holy before God is through the storms of this life, trials, tribulation, and persecution. NONE OF THAT IS FOUND IN HEAVEN. How are we supposed to be in heaven when heaven is for those who are already pure and holy before God? how is one purified in heaven when the only way to BE purified and purged is through persecution and tribulation? How can one be purged in heaven?...

that sounds a bit like Roman Catholicism to me...
we are NOT purged in heaven. we are purged here on earth through tribulation and persecution. greatkraw is living in a mad-made fantasy... a fantasy which will lead him to nothing but deception and heartbreak

pre-trib always contradicts itself, and that's not even mentioning dispensationalism, the very mad-made doctrine that gave birth to pre-tribulationism

You'll note I bolded only a part of greatkraw's post, that was the part I was giving a two thumbs up to because I found it made me think in a way I hadn't thought before. It seems that you're making assumptions of what I believe based on a 2 sentence post?

I've seen enough posts of greatkraw's to know that he doesn't hold to Catholic doctrine. I would imagine greatkraw meant judged, but again, that wasn't part of the post that I was focusing on.

 

[Lauren]

thats just it, shellebelle: it's not found in scripture.

what greatkraw is trying to tell you is that Israel is held higher than the rest of mankind through the eyes of God, and that the national, physical Israel has some kind of special meaning... when in fact, Christ called ALL of those who believed on Him the Israel of God (Galatians 6:15-16), not to mention Peter even called the Israelites when they were lost in the desert for 40 years the "church in the wilderness" (Acts 7:38)

greatkraw is repeating the assumptions, personal opinions, personal agendas, eisogetical doctrines, and the man-made fantasy called dispensationalism, a theology that only has scriptural basis if you take the Word of God out of context. This theology has no foundation in scripture, for even the Word says we are one in Christ, whether we be Jew or Greek, and are heirs according to the promise (Galatians 3:26-29)

Can you then explain this verse to me then, Zilla

Romans 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.

I've never read a satisfactory reason for the clear delineation here between Israel and gentiles, but maybe I've been looking in the wrong places.

 

[VW]

Can you then explain this verse to me then, Zilla

Romans 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.

I've never read a satisfactory reason for the clear delineation here between Israel and gentiles, but maybe I've been looking in the wrong places.

It is not there, that is, a clear delineation between Israel and the Church. In fact, Paul stated plainly that Jesus, in His flesh, removed the dividing barrier which was the commandments contained in the covenant God made with Israel through Moses.

 

[walt2000]

I still think you guy's are missing the whole point .Of Rev.10-
And You are right, It is Christ's word ,Right out of the mouth of Christ.As given to John.
It is a continuous flow of Words ,scripture ,All accept for the people that insist on what you are attempting to do, with your defying Rev.22/18 This is Revelation of Christ to John. And with Your opinion you are blaspheming The written word .And trying to Get all the plagues written in the book Of Revelations.Don' add or take away .walt2000​

Not adding to the words is a warning to those that may attempt to take this book of Revelations as written by St. John, and alter the words to give a different meaning. It's a warning that if you try and change any of what is written here, that you won't last long on earth.
​

All one has to do is read from other prophets and read Revelations to know that it's in sync to prophecy that is to come to pass. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
​

 

[walt2000]

Seven Thunders of Revelations

This is not a End of Time Prediction. It is a true interp. of Revelation no time is Known​

 

[walt2000]

And thinking there is a Rapture is a result of not . Correctly Interpreting. the word of Christ, adding. and private opinion.walt2000​

 

[walt2000]

seems they are the seven spirits or angels of God in the right hand of Jesus Christ given to the seven churches , this is possible the race we are told to finnish ?
BLB Word Search Results

why they are not permitted to utter till the seventh sounds ?As Gods mystery will be finnished
Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh


Revelation 4:5 Out of the throne proceed lightnings, sounds, and thunders. There were seven lamps of fire burning before his throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. (WEB ASV BBE DBY YLT)

Revelation 8:5 The angel took the censer, and he filled it with the fire of the altar, and threw it on the earth. There followed thunders, sounds, lightnings, and an earthquake. (WEB ASV BBE DBY YLT)
Revelation 10:3 He cried with a loud voice, as a lion roars. When he cried, the seven thunders uttered their voices. (WEB KJV ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT RSV NIV) Revelation 10:4 When the seven thunders sounded, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from the sky saying, "Seal up the things which the seven thunders said, and don't write them." (WEB KJV ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT RSV NIV)
looked up thunder in the lexicon
Blue Letter Bible - Language Tools hope this helps , i love looking into these things , i too have wondered about this very thing​

 

[Lauren]

It is not there, that is, a clear delineation between Israel and the Church. In fact, Paul stated plainly that Jesus, in His flesh, removed the dividing barrier which was the commandments contained in the covenant God made with Israel through Moses.

I agree that where there is neither Greek nor Jew, etc etc: but Christ is all, and in all, but I also think that God has separate plans for the Jews and the Gentiles, plans that interweave and interconnect, all to one end. If not, what happens to all the promises God made to the Jews? Do they go unfulfilled? Can't be. Does the church replace Israel in those prophecies? That doesn't seem to fit either.

I'm not foolish enough to believe I have all the answers, and I could be wrong. But I'd like someone to tell me how that verse doesn't mean what it sure seems to mean.

 

[walt2000]

THE RIBBON CODE
When I say that you can't add ,or take away From this book it is because the book is in a code.Yes it is in a code.A string, or a ribbon ,of sorts of 72 elements .Look at the gemartria for the number 72 or 27.or 27072.
The right Elements, everything has it's place on this ribbon ,coming out of the mouth of GOD, it is a continuous ribbon .If you add a space or take an element out, or put an element in, you brake the code .Yes. you have to take the italics out,the parts ,that man inserted.The space's,yes ,even the bible references.It has to be a continuous string of words out of the mouth of GOD..Then and only, then ,the work starts.
When you have the right elements,and in the same order,,the ribbon wraps around and around it self to make a roll .Like a empty cardboard roll of paper, A cylinder.A scroll .
Now, Doe's that sound fantastic, in the shape of a scroll , Not unlike the scroll that Dan.in his visions ate ,And not unlike the scroll that John ate.When you have this scroll you have to cut it in the right place and every thing lines up seven times.Seven thunders .Sound like a mad man ,ask CHRIST .I did not make this I only found it.


And as for the first question ,yes the bible is relevant ,I must have read it over and over ,and then over again.I Wore It out and wore out three more.
You have to know the old ,and the new ,to know the last.But you can not try to shape it ,it will shape it self.Your scroll has to agree with old and new testaments.Or your work is for not.
I'm not sure you will not want to speak to me again. [Mod Edit: deleted personal e-mail address]
If you find this deep, then you should see the seventy pages I have to prove what I just said .​

 

[VW]

I agree that where there is neither Greek nor Jew, etc etc: but Christ is all, and in all, but I also think that God has separate plans for the Jews and the Gentiles, plans that interweave and interconnect, all to one end. If not, what happens to all the promises God made to the Jews? Do they go unfulfilled? Can't be. Does the church replace Israel in those prophecies? That doesn't seem to fit either.

I'm not foolish enough to believe I have all the answers, and I could be wrong. But I'd like someone to tell me how that verse doesn't mean what it sure seems to mean.

In the time since Christ was in the world, the hearts of the people of Israel have been hardened by God, to not see Jesus as Christ. This will stay in effect until the number of the Gentiles is full. This is exactly what the verse means. The promises of God to Israel will all be fulfilled, every one. But just as He said through Jeremiah, Israel will be but a remnant.

For although Israel has been separated from the rest of mankind, because they were chosen to be His chosen people, they have been remiss in believing in Him, they have not listened to His voice, and have hardened their hearts against Him. But what can we say, for the church has done much the same. Many of the prophecies of these last days are speaking of the church, and her actions which are much like Israel's actions.

In God's eyes, there is no division. This is important because Israel remains God's chosen people, and in Christ Jesus we have been included in them. Not a replacement for them, for God's choice is without repentance, but as He is hardening now so that we might be brought in, we are seen as His chosen now. When the fullness of Christ is come, we will be one in Him.

In His love,
vic

 

[walt2000]

Revelation reveled.revelations proved .Seven thunders to seven church's, It is that simple.


WELL, DOE'S ANY BODY HAVE ANY REASON WHY EVERY THING LINES UP IN THE CHART I GAVE YOU? all scripture is in order, and not placing ,And spacing them in order ,to make a point.
Find your question vertically, in the Seven Thunders,and then find your answer horizontally .
this is a gemartria no.--------------------------------------------------------no.27027
--
0 = a space no. that can be discarded
Remember the 0 is a spacer,and can be discarded,so what I get is as fallows
27072--------- 27 books in the bible come to revelations,
2+7- 0- 7+2
9- 0- 9 the spacer in gemartria can be removed so we get
9+9 then
18 then
9
In gemartria the number nine is,the number of Finality,,judgment,Fruit of the spirit, Divine completeness from the father



The two no.are basic to light and creation put the no.s together you get a palindrome-27072
and we have the lowest number evenly divisible by each other.well in gemartria of the old test the number 27 is the number of light.
The Hebrew word for light adds p to 207 and multiplies to 12 since zeros are merely place holders it can be written in gemartria as 27.The same Hebrew word is sometimes translated Sun.The same Hebrew meaning to illuminate ,
now 72 =
New test word for seeds from Greek meaning ,that from life springs ,it bas the no.720 ,The title ,Lord God in Heaven also adds up to 72
he is from that life springs.


So Christ is the -- 27=light of the world
and.72=lord god in heaven
light = lord god in heaven prophesy,also= revelations.
The making of the chart you may just as well just print them as given.It is a sequential use, of scripture.
As for its use .The vertical lines tell the events ,the horizontal lines explain the event.
If you have a particular question ?Find out where it is vertically on the chart then read the answer horizontally.Thunders 1,2,3,4,5,6,7
There are seven stories told from seven vantage points .it is a seven dimensional look in to the future of one event ,the church on earth.and it's redemption in heaven,The more you look at it the more you will see.Look at it All Then read my posts it explains each of the vertical lines.
then Goggle
walt2000 revelations
That will explain the interior parts of the charts,There is no sense repeating every thing when it is all in front of you.
There is no Bible code!!
Instead of 35 years studying Revelations it would have been more productive focusing on the Gospels. EVERYTHING we need to know is in the Gospels. If there were no other books in the NT ,apart from the Gospels it would not matter because the fullness of truth is in the 4 Gospels.​

probably in retrospect, it would be easier, every thing is in the the gospels,and every thing should be easier, but revelations was, hidden for a reason,hidden, so not every body would understand, .I think It was put there so every body will not be able to know ,Just the sealed of GOD, The people, the people that have the seal of GOD in their foreheads the one's that he wanted to under stand.The people that want to put the time into it, not all people were meant to under stand.That's why there are so many interp. of it.
People usually study some one else's opinion and don't want to study,They have a 15 minute attention span,GOD WANTS you to form your own.

When you go to a study group ,the leader there, has about a week or two looking at a set agenda, their not studying for them self's, their studying another person's work .There is a special blessing for those that work it out.For them self's


Unless you are compelled to study this ,leave it alone .Read Rev.22/18 and underline Rev.22/19
Look up these no.'s in scripture.
http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/The%20Significance%20of%20Numbers%20in%20Scripture.htm


I know I am bucking the traces here ,How come some thing this simple is so hard to see.walt2000​

 

[walt2000]

Re: Rapture= false teaching​

 

[Zilla64007]

I agree that where there is neither Greek nor Jew, etc etc: but Christ is all, and in all, but I also think that God has separate plans for the Jews and the Gentiles, plans that interweave and interconnect, all to one end. If not, what happens to all the promises God made to the Jews? Do they go unfulfilled? Can't be. Does the church replace Israel in those prophecies? That doesn't seem to fit either.

I'm not foolish enough to believe I have all the answers, and I could be wrong. But I'd like someone to tell me how that verse doesn't mean what it sure seems to mean.

to put it bluntly, God never said He replaced Israel with the Church... ever.
Neither does the Word say that God deals differently with people, for if God did, that would be showing favoritism. Note that it were dispensationalists who came up with the term "replacement theology" to demean and degrade the doctrine of Covenant Theology.

I'll say this again: we don't replace Israel... we are Israel. Scripture tells us that over and over again in the New Testament and hints at it in the old Testament, and that's what was taught throughout history... even Justin Martyr taught against false interpretations of the Jews in the first century. This teaching of the Church and Israel being seperate "programs" or "dispensations (via Scofield's private definition of the word)" was not taught until 1827... the only reason it got so popular was because it includes this pre-trib rapture along with it... all the pretty charts and graphs and time lines, and verses taken out of context to make you feel warm and cozy inside and even slightly confused, so that you can tell yourself "eh, its too difficult, I'll let better people do the research for me", and in turn, desensitize and blind you to not even stimulate your brain to look beyond modernized Christianity and back into Biblical Christianity

 

[greatkraw]

Zilla, this is so boring and you are so wrong

to put it bluntly, God never said He replaced Israel with the Church... ever.
no but he has sidelined them for now

Neither does the Word say that God deals differently with people,

God dealing differently with different people throught history include.....
* before the fall
* from the fall to the flood
* from the flood to abraham
* from abraham to Christ (Jews and Gentiles)
* from Pentecost until the rapture (the Church and the unsaved - unsaved Jews are sidelined)
the tribulation (church is gone - God dealing with Israel AND JESUS RETURNS BECAUSE OF ISRAEL - tribulation saints as well)
the millenium (saved and unsaved - no such thing as an unsaved Jew)
the eternal state (no more arguments)


for if God did, that would be showing favoritism.
call it what you like

Note that it were dispensationalists who came up with the term "replacement theology" to demean and degrade the doctrine of Covenant Theology.
this is a stupid uninformed statement and exposes your intellectual anorexia

I'll say this again: we don't replace Israel... we are Israel.
not true but if you are you better start keeping torah

Rev 2:9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan

Rev 3:9I Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.





Scripture tells us that over and over again in the New Testament and hints at it in the old Testament, and that's what was taught throughout history... even Justin Martyr taught against false interpretations of the Jews in the first century. This teaching of the Church and Israel being seperate "programs" or "dispensations (via Scofield's private definition of the word)" was not taught until 1827...
utter balderdash


the only reason it got so popular was because it includes this pre-trib rapture along with it... all the pretty charts and graphs and time lines, and verses taken out of context to make you feel warm and cozy inside and even slightly confused, so that you can tell yourself "eh, its too difficult, I'll let better people do the research for me", and in turn, desensitize and blind you to not even stimulate your brain to look beyond modernized Christianity and back into Biblical Christianity

 

[Zilla64007]

"God dealing differently with different people throught history include.....
* before the fall
* from the fall to the flood
* from the flood to abraham
* from abraham to Christ (Jews and Gentiles)
* from Pentecost until the rapture (the Church and the unsaved - unsaved Jews are sidelined)
the tribulation (church is gone - God dealing with Israel AND JESUS RETURNS BECAUSE OF ISRAEL - tribulation saints as well)
the millenium (saved and unsaved - no such thing as an unsaved Jew)
the eternal state (no more arguments)"
hmm, lets look at this... the first four, God called them to simply obey Him... nothing different in that...
the rest of it is just dispensational theology, and has no value

"call it what you like"
hey, the truth is the truth, no matter how hard or hurtful it is

"this is a stupid uninformed statement and exposes your intellectual anorexia"
this is name calling, and shows your true age... you may say you're 50, but you act like you're a 5 yr old.

"not true but if you are you better start keeping torah
to begin with God never wanted them to follow the rules or the Law to begin with... it were the Israelites that wanted the rules because of the slavery that they endured in Egypt, and saw and experienced the rituals of the Egyptians and their gods... God only wants our love and obedience... and the Law of Moses has been fulfilled through Christ.

Rev 2:9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan

Rev 3:9I Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. "

Romans 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and whose circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit and not in the letter, and whose praise is not from men, but from God.

Romans 9:6-7
6 It is not as though the Word of God hath taken no effect. For they are not all Israel, who are of Israel;
7 neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children; but, "In Isaac shall thy seed be called."

Galatians 6:15-16
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Justin Martyr also had a nice speech with Trypho helping him understand that it is the Christians that make up Israel...
go read Dialog with Trypho ch. 23, 24, & 34... then go do your research on the origins of dispensationalism and pre-tribulation. Start acting like a grown-up, and do the research yourself instead of blindly following a pastor

Proverbs 14:15
The simple believeth every word, but the prudent man looketh well to his going

 

[Lauren]

... even Justin Martyr taught against false interpretations of the Jews in the first century. This teaching of the Church and Israel being seperate "programs" or "dispensations (via Scofield's private definition of the word)" was not taught until 1827... the only reason it got so popular was because it includes this pre-trib rapture along with it... all the pretty charts and graphs and time lines, and verses taken out of context to make you feel warm and cozy inside and even slightly confused, so that you can tell yourself "eh, its too difficult, I'll let better people do the research for me", and in turn, desensitize and blind you to not even stimulate your brain to look beyond modernized Christianity and back into Biblical Christianity

1. Longevity of belief proves nothing. Just look at the catholic church's claim that they are the one true church and have been from the very beginning

2. Lack of written proof also proves nothing. Again, just look at the catholic church. They claim that everyone held catholic beliefs from the beginning through the ages, and yet we know that's not true either, that God has always maintained a remnant, His Church, through the ages

3. Even if it wasn't taught until the 1800's that means nothing either. Certainly man's understanding of the Bible has changed over the years. John wrote Revelation, and until current times, the things written in it seemed unreal. It's only now where we can see the possibility of a 200m man army and such.