Not By Works

[FranC]

I believe it's important to walk with God.

I believe what we don't agree about is that the Holy spirit seals all born again believers....but let me read G777 post.

I skimmed it but when held next to the article you posted, His post does seem to have some trigger words in it and folks love shootin their guns.

I don't know if we agree what "sealed with the Holy spirit" means or not. Brb,

Grace will correct me if I'm wrong.

Grace believes that once someone is saved, they cannot lose that salvation NO MATTER WHAT.
I thought you knew this.

I do not agree with this and, quite frankly, it is NOT BIBLICAL, no matter what the new, modern thinkers think.
I won't be posting anymore scripture and probably will be having to leave here again soon.

I do hope you come to understand what Grace believes, and also Dcon and also EG, and Others.

 

[stonesoffire]

Gen 22:8


　 Abraham answered, "God will provide himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." The two of them went on together　

Some capitalize Himself...God will provide Himself...the lamb. Perhaps he knew something? Justified?

Then...

~
Gen 22:13　 Then Abraham looked up and behind him to see a ram caught by its horns in the thicket. So Abraham went over, grabbed the ram, and offered it as a burnt offering in place of his son.　

Looking at the Hebrew...it's a vision. He sees in the spirit...that which comes forth in the natural.

Did he understand all he saw? Maybe, but it wasn't for his time.

 

[Stephen63]

Ep 2: 8,9 is clear that we are saved by God's grace through faith and not by works. Those that think they need to add works to be saved insult the Spirit of Grace and are severed from Christ. It is really sad those that call themselves Christians cannot see this, because they are not of Christ's fold and cannot hear His voice.

So, Burninglight if a person gets saved & is faithful for a few years, & decides to add works to his salvation, is this man severed from Christ?

 

[Ariel82]

Didn't catch this before...

What is not Christian-like about my manner???

"Not perform for an unseen audience."

 

[Meggido]

The quote has zero to do with his salvation and or justification before GOD....and is applicable to Abraham fearing God and obeying his command to offer Isaac.....NICE TRY...NO CIGAR

And he said, Lay not your hand on the lad, neither do you any thing to him: for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son from me.

Abraham was not saved under the New Covenant...neither was David, Daniel and others. I asked you this pages ago and you neatly side stepped the question<<<<<<meaning you never answered it.<<<<you neatly side step a lot DC...

Heb 11 tell's us that Abraham was not justified until he offered Isaac, that is when the blessings[partaking/enabling]of the promise of the inheritance was activated...NOW I KNOW....and NOW YOU WILL RECEIVE...

 

[Stephen63]

This kind of crosses a line for me.

If they have the Holy spirit and true saving faith in Jesus then they are saved, even if I don't agree with their doctrine.

.God is able teach and save all His Kids.

I don't get it either..... if a person accepts Christ (according to them), then it's a done deal.

How then does a person get "severed" from Christ after that?

 

[stonesoffire]

Before Jesus...hell was two parts. The bosom of Abraham, and the place for the wicked.

Seen in the parable of Jesus. Those who worshipped YHWH, trusted in blood sacrifice went to the bosom of Abraham.

 

[BillG]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't you consider that the term believe and faith to mean the same thing? So if a person believes something then they have faith since the two terms are interchangeable right? So you always had faith, you were just saved when you had faith in God right?

Interesting question.

I would say that belief and faith can be separate.

There are an awful lot of well renowned historians who believe Jesus actually walked the earth and was crucified.
Also there were people around the time of Jesus who wrote about him and acknowledge he existed and was crucified.
Such writers have not seen him but believe Jesus was an actual person but do not believe he rose again. It stops there.

Then we have the N.T. written by those who saw him crucified, they testify that he rose again and were willing to die for their belief.

Now I and many others on this believe in Jesus but we have gone that step further. He is the son of God who died and rose again, for forgiveness of sins to reconcile us back to the Father.

That is faith.

 

[Zmouth]

So are you saying Paul was wrong or lieing?
Was Paul a diviner, enchanter, charmer, witch and the rest from above?

So are those the only two possibilities?

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Gal 1:8-9


See Joshua 7:15

 

[dcontroversal]

Grace will correct me if I'm wrong.

Grace believes that once someone is saved, they cannot lose that salvation NO MATTER WHAT.
I thought you knew this.

I do not agree with this and, quite frankly, it is NOT BIBLICAL, no matter what the new, modern thinkers think.
I won't be posting anymore scripture and probably will be having to leave here again soon.

I do hope you come to understand what Grace believes, and also Dcon and also EG, and Others.

Yeah I am fairly confident she knows what we believe....and I am equally confident hat she knows what you believe for the most part....it can be summed up nicely

You believe faith plus works for a salvation that can be lost or kept based upon what YOU do or don't do

We believe in salvation based upon faith by grace which is maintained and held secure by what Christ has done and will do.

there it is......one is biblical....the other not so much.......

 

[Meggido]

Regardless of any situation they found themselves in...to compare what was said with Jews being deceived and gassed was ignorant....

Guess I missed that part, my bad...

 

[Stephen63]

Afternoon Stephen.

Can I ask who the we're are?

Given the majority of responses and content I would say most do pray and think for themselves and studied as well.

If "most" did, they wouldn't be deceived & fall away, now would they?

I'll leave the "we" up to your.

 

[Gabriel2020]

To believe, you must have faith. that is that mustard seed.

 

[Ariel82]

I don't get it either..... if a person accepts Christ (according to them), then it's a done deal.

How then does a person get "severed" from Christ after that?

I don't know if burninglight believes in eternal security.

EG would say they were never saved in the first place, thus can't lose it.

I believe only the Holy spirit can say who is God's born again children. And that there will be a change in heart and mind that will lead to fruit and good works.

However they are saved as babes in Christ no matter the level of maturity.

 

[dcontroversal]

Abraham was not saved under the New Covenant...neither was David, Daniel and others. I asked you this pages ago and you neatly side stepped the question<<<<<<meaning you never answered it.<<<<you neatly side step a lot DC...

Heb 11 tell's us that Abraham was not justified until he offered Isaac, that is when the blessings[partaking/enabling]of the promise of the inheritance was activated...NOW I KNOW....and NOW YOU WILL RECEIVE...

Sure I answered...go back and read......here..one more time for you

O.T. SAINTS----saved by faith looking forward to the cross-->JESUS<----------saved by faith looking back to cross N.T. SAINTS

Covenant ratified by the death of Christ and deal sealed by his resurrection from the dead.....David speaks of his salvation in the present tense....O.T. saints held in Abraham's bosom (paradise) until covenant ratified with the d, b and r of JESUS.....

 

[Stephen63]

Sock puppets implies that folks waste the time and energy to make multiple accounts to put on a play to "fool" Stephen..,seems a little much.

I would advise you to think outside the box, & think of how much time would be wasted if they were paid to do it.

 

[Meggido]

Must not be much of a God if he already did not know....Abraham was declared justified and saved by his faith....Paul was clear....and we men can see his faith was genuine based upon his actions which is what James speaks to....having said that...answer the following please

a. How many apples identify an apple tree?
b. Is an apple tree an apple tree from the moment it sprouts?
c. Is an apple tree still an apple tree for the 3 or so years it makes to bear fruit?
d. Is an apple tree still an apple tree is it has a good year and bears fruit and then has a bad year of drought and does not bear?
e. Is an apple tree still an apple tree if a bad late frost kills all the blooms and it does not bear that year?
f. is an apple tree still an apple tree if all of it's fruit is loaded with worms one year?
G. As a matter of fact....is an apple tree still an apple tree no matter what happens after it sprouts from seed it's whole life?

???

So now you are going to tell us Abraham was saved under the new covenant?

 

[Ariel82]

Interesting question.

I would say that belief and faith can be separate.

There are an awful lot of well renowned historians who believe Jesus actually walked the earth and was crucified.
Also there were people around the time of Jesus who wrote about him and acknowledge he existed and was crucified.
Such writers have not seen him but believe Jesus was an actual person but do not believe he rose again. It stops there.

Then we have the N.T. written by those who saw him crucified, they testify that he rose again and were willing to die for their belief.

Now I and many others on this believe in Jesus but we have gone that step further. He is the son of God who died and rose again, for forgiveness of sins to reconcile us back to the Father.

That is faith.

I would call it saving faith..,,folks can have faith in lot of things that doesn't save.

 

[UnderGrace]

Conversationand,

Well, it is never good to splice and dice scripture. One has to understand the Big Picture to understand the details, but no matter if you have time let's take a walk.

Maybe you will be more inclined to answer my questions, but since you think your belief is not a singular event, I will ask a question.

When you were physically born, did this continue, or is your mom still in labour or was it a singular event?

Jesus builds an analogy to help us understand salvation (gaining eternal life) so let us start there. We can trust Jesus right?

(1 Peter 3-5) 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. (If you stop believing, is God going to continue to shield you despite your lack of faith?)

First things first, we will deal with taking up or cross and being holy shortly.

(1 Peter 1 15-16) 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do;16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.” (Matthew 16: 24) 24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. (Mind you I don't believe anyone expects Christians to have perfection in the flesh, but we should be striving and "Earnestly contending for the faith to which God has called us.")

See the notations in the quote above.

 

[Ariel82]

So now you are going to tell us Abraham was saved under the new covenant?

He believed in the promise of the Messiah.