The truth behind the Law

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Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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On the eighth day she shall take two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, and bring them to the priest, to the door of the Tent of Meeting.

if so, then nobody is keeping it.
Isn't there only seven days??? If Saturday is the 1st day of the week and Sunday is the 7th day of the week, then you go back to the first day of the week so what do they called the eighth day?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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just asking for you idea on this one. You don't need to answer if you don't wish to.
(side note, I am only asking one person ok)

Is it wise for a person that like myself, finds it ok for others to work out their own salvation between them and HaShem, to even bother with a sight like this one? Or would I be better off to just keep on keeping on with my study group?

That is funny when I think about it. We have church leaders gathering together, and none are from the same church, yet we can talk openly about what the other understands, and then say, "Never see it that way, can you get me some notes for next time, I would really like to look into that." Shot even the RCC prist, is now going to a Baptist church on Sunday Night. I think that shows great understanding, and the man is credit to his faith. We keep telling him if he would do a sermon in English we all go and see whats up.
I think it's a good thing to be able to discuss things with respect for each other. I would say that initially there can be some friction as things can get out of whack here in this type of venue.

The internet sometimes does not lend itself to accurately saying what is really meant to be said. it does help to show us how to articulate things better so that there is no chance to be mis-represented what is really being said.

It has also been my experience on here that despite how many times you say something - some will continue to mis-represent what you are really saying and that is just being plain deceitful. I just ignore those types as interaction with them only causes strife and division.

There is also the reality that some will see your point - and still agree to disagree but it can be done respectfully and we can honor the truth that both parties agree on concerning the Lord Jesus Christ.

I also believe in speaking boldly the gospel and to not water it down so as to nullify the grace of God that is in Christ from operating in our lives like it was meant to. Paul was very militant in defending His gospel" as he put it from all influences that would nullify the grace of God.

I think the Lord is revealing His true nature in these days and showing His love and grace towards us all.

You said "HaShem" - what is a "HaShem" or maybe it's a who? Are you of original Jewish descent?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Isn't there only seven days??? If Saturday is the 1st day of the week and Sunday is the 7th day of the week, then you go back to the first day of the week so what do they called the eighth day?
I don't know how that worked, exactly.

maybe similar to this
Luke 2 When eight days were fulfilled for the circumcision of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was given by the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
 
Jun 21, 2017
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Hello PerfectlyImperfect,

I don't know why you would say that. What you call "negativity" is actually those in Christ contending for the truth of God's word. Regarding this, Paul said the following:

"I am astonished how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a divine curse!"


We will also treat you with respect, while at the same time contend for the truth of God's word. This whole thing regarding the Law attempts to undermine the free gift of God which comes through faith in Christ. Scripture states that sin gets its power from the Law. We have been set free from it because Christ came and fulfilled the law, fully and completely, satisfying God's requirements for it. Yet, people want to bring it back and put themselves and other under it again.

It is very important for one to understand how he is saved. For Christ said "I am the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father but by Me." That said, anyone who attempting to get to the Father by observing the works of the Law will fail and that because you are not going through Christ, but are trusting in your own works. Trusting in Christ is exactly that: You come to Christ believing that he provided salvation by what He did, not by what we can do.

Jesus met the righteous requirements of the Law, fulfilling it.

Jesus took upon himself the wrath that we deserve as a result of our sins

Jesus paid the penalty for our sins, the righteous for the unrighteous

Therefore to trust in our own efforts as a requirement for salvation, is to say that Christ's sacrifice was insufficient.

This is a very serious matter, because the Lord knows what an individual is truly trusting in. Putting ones trust in anything but Christ for salvation has eternal consequences.
By negativity, I meant the name calling and nonsense arguing back and forth. Why can't everyone just agree to disagree and move on. Also, I have been shown lots of love and respect here, so I didn't mean to imply that every single person was being negative. So, next time I'll just say the negative comments are unnecessary, if that will make you feel better.
 
Jun 21, 2017
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Also, in no way am I disagreeing with what anybody says. I think you all have made some very valid points.
 

FGT

Banned
May 26, 2017
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The purpose of the law was :

To bring law and order among the lawless and chaos.

Without law and order you have chaos and lawlessness.


The Christian churches are like it is on here...

Lawless and chaos.

 
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graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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The purpose of the law was :

To bring law and order among the lawless and chaos.

Without law and order you have chaos and lawlessness.


How about a Scriptural quote...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Please tell me, if obedience and works follow faith, then why did you say in post 232.


And may I ask what is their to be obedient to? If their is no law, what is their?
saying obedience is a result of salvation, and obedience earns s salvation are two different things,

paul told us what the law was for, to lead us to Christ, because it proves we fall short

paul also said if any law could be given that could make us righteous, it would be given.

So what law law do you think will save you?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Atonement for sin = death. In the sacrificial system, the blood of an innocent animal would ONLY COVER the sin, not wash it away. Please not before you go off the deep end.
Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Amo 5:22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
Psa 50:8 I will not reprove thee for thy sacrifices or thy burnt offerings, to have been continually before me.
Psa 40:6
You take no delight in sacrifices or offerings. Now that you have made me listen, I finally understand—you don’t require burnt offerings or sin offerings.

That is just a hand full, so I think ends this as requirement. Being made clear from the WORD. Their is not one passage that can be used to twist this.

When Yeshua walked this earth, there is not one passage that ever points to, hitns at or can be made to, show He ever offered any of the Sacrifices, or burnt offerings.
When He gave His life willing, His blood made it so that our sins can be washes away, and removed never to be remembered again. Will that work for you?
oh boy,

like I thought, you do not know what atonement means.

the blood was poured out, so when God looked in, he could not see the tablets of law, the rod that budded, or the manna, i.e., he could not see the things which condemned man, and thus he was redeemed.

what do you think happens when the blood of Jesus washes you? Your sin is still there, God just does not see it, he sees his sons blood "righteousness"
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
You can't just leave me hanging here, I may die from suspense. Or would that be supposition? No mater I am dead both ways. :p

I'll be back said with an Austrian accent

Now I am not scared of anything, but you are scary. LOL
I also agree with what you said. Goood job.
well I'm waiting for someone to convince me otherwise as some famous person said (I think you know them)

seriously though, there seems to be a tendency to put icing on the cracks and hope it sticks.

I'm reading some interesting things about systematic theology right now and while I am no expert, I can so far agree with the logic behind that

I have not caught up with this thread either but will try to
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Bible says that the 2 greatest commandments are love God,and love people,and on those two laws hang all the prophets,and the law.

Jesus said a new commandment I give you,that you love one another as I have loved you,and that is how they will know you are my disciples,if you have love for one another.

The Bible says love works no ill towards their neighbor;therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Paul said if he did not have love he is nothing,and love does not think an evil thought,and does not rejoice in iniquity,but rejoices in the truth.

The Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lust of the flesh,and shows the characteristics of the Spirit,and they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

If a person hates sin,does not want sin,and wants to represent goodness,by the Spirit they can do it,because they will not show the ways of the flesh,but of the Spirit,and when they are tempted,God will not put on them more than they are able,so they can endure it,and will give them an escape from the temptation.

Those that name the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Lay aside every weight of sin that so easily besets us,and abstain from fleshy lusts,that war against the soul.

The Bible says that Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way,nailing them to His cross,for they were contrary to us,because they did not have any bearing on spiritual salvation,therefore let no person judge you concerning the physical ordinances,and that is because a person does not have to keep them,and the body is of Christ.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith,but we establish the law,and the law is spiritual,holy,just,and good,which Paul is talking about the laws of love,moral laws,which the ten commandments is laws of love towards God,and people.

The 2 greatest commandments love God,and love people,and on those 2 laws hang all the prophets,and the law,and loving people is the fulfilling of the law,for if we love people by the Spirit,we love God,and we want no harm towards people,and to please God by acting like Christ,representing goodness,depart from iniquity.

They could not have the Spirit in the Old Testament so God had them do the physical ordinances,and physical laws,until Christ came,and then they passed away.

In the New Testament we can have the Spirit,and go by the 2 greatest commandments,love God,and love people.

But someone had to fulfill the Old Testament laws,which Jesus fulfilled the prophets,and law,for He is sinless under the Old Testament,the perfect saint,perfect sacrifice,perfect mediator,perfect High Priest,perfect King,kinsman redeemer,perfect Prophet,and whatever else He has to be.

All the roles that people played in accordance with the nation of Israel being perfect in those positions,so collectively it is all abiding by the truth of God in a spiritual sense,so the Old Testament law,and prophets,could be fulfilled,Jesus did it.

Jesus said till heaven and earth pass,one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,till all be fulfilled,which the earth will pass away at the end of the millennial reign of Christ,and when the saints are in the New Jerusalem,the former earth shall not be remembered,or come to mind.

In the millennial reign Jesus will fulfill the perfect King role on earth,fulfilling the law,and the prophets,completely,and at the end of the millennial reign the earth shall pass away,and all is fulfilled.

In the New Testament we only go by the two greatest commandments,love God,and love people,which we can do by the Spirit,which they could not have the Spirit in the Old Testament,and Jesus fulfilled the law,and the prophets,and we do not go by the physical ordinances of Israel in the New Testament,because they have no impact on spiritual salvation,and love is the fulfilling of the law.
 
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Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
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I don't know how that worked, exactly.

maybe similar to this
Luke 2 When eight days were fulfilled for the circumcision of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was given by the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
Good point. So when eight days are fulfilled, does that mean if a child is born on the 1st day of the month then he would be circumcised on the 1st day of the second week since it is written that eight days were fulfilled for the circumcision?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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I'm asking for it now, but how do you explain v.2 of Genesis 1?



the 'deep' refers to the water I think? yet the Spirit of God was hovering over it (the waters)

I think people need to be careful about supposing what God and cannot do or whether or not the Holy Spirit can be in darkness

did not God create both? if you refer to 'darkness' only as a 'spiritual' darkness, then how do we explain v.2 ?

can you supply scripture that attests to what you say regarding that where the Spirit of God is there is ONLY light?

please try to think about this. arguing is the last thing on my mind.
HIS WORK (if it is HIS WORK) is what brings LIGHT and LIFE

And GOD said_______________
and there was.
 
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miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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I'm not sure what you are having a problem with regarding Genesis 2

Before the world was created, it was a soupy watery formless dark void.....expanse

and the SPIRIT of GOD hovered over the face of the deep


not sure what the problem is

GOD is not limited by anyone or anything
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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THE HOLY SPIRIT, out from the darkness, brought forth THE LIGHT
If HE didn't, there would still be darkness

And yes, even spiritual darkness because if GOD had not revealed HIS WORD and TRUTH to us, we would very much still be in darkness

and some still are
 

FGT

Banned
May 26, 2017
334
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I'm not sure what you are having a problem with regarding Genesis 2

Before the world was created, it was a soupy watery formless dark void.....expanse

and the SPIRIT of GOD hovered over the face of the deep


not sure what the problem is

GOD is not limited by anyone or anything
Genesis
Chapter 18
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation,
and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him,
and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment;
that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Matthew 13:58
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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Excuse me, but the ten commandments were given to Moses on Mount Sinai and are apart of the Law. And you are correct, Jesus did keep the ten commandments, as well as the rest of the law and that on mankind's behalf and that because we were unable to keep the Law.

You people who trust in the law will be thinking that you are going to get a pat on the back from God for attempting to keep the law. But you will be kept out of the kingdom of God because you trusted in your own works instead of trusting in Christ as the One who fulfilled the Law and thereby satisfying God's requirement for fulfillment.

Think of it this way, scripture states that "unless there is a shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins." Jesus fulfilled that shedding of blood by shedding His righteous blood on our behalf. As a believer, do you feel that you need to go out and shed your blood to help Jesus fulfill what He already accomplished?

Jesus also took upon himself the wrath of God that we deserve as a result of our sins. Do you feel the need to experience God's wrath to finish the provision of salvation that Jesus already provided? That is exactly what you are doing by attempting to keep the Law. You're saying the Christ's fulfillment of the law was insufficient.
May I bring to your attention that God gave the 10 Com to the WHOLE Assembly present and not Moses only Deut 5v4, 22, 23 and they even admitted to have heard God v24; also Ex 20v1-18, 20, all people were there assembled but refused to hear any more after God had spoken 10 of the Coms.