The truth behind the Law

[Rainrider]

Ok after my melt down, here is what I am going to do. You can get as hurt as you like, that on you. If I see a post that is, or seems off topic, or rude, I will blow right past it. I am hoping everyone will do that same. It is always best to let a snapping dog be, and in time they will go away, or just lay down and be quit. So I am going to take this post back were it should be, and I am going to do just as I said. The ground rules will be followed our I will simply blow past that post, as I hope every one will, and it will remain unanswered. At lest by me that is. s I am sure every now knows that yes JOHN can go off on a person. I hioe that is clear and will not be repeated.
I do find it a shame that some on here wish to cry about what they do to others, only when it is persevered as being done to them. It is even sadder that they seem to care less that they by their actions, show so much love and a great caring nature, that when faced with the fact that someone that is lost sees how things went, they are turned off form anything to do with the Bible. Is is also sad that when it is placed before them, they seem to not give a rats tail one way or the other.
I have had time to really think this over, and I even after reporting my self, It does seem that all is good on the western front, and the war will just to move. As there are going to be return shoot from me at lest. Sorry to kill all your fun, though I am sure you will just do your best to disrupt with you comments to one another. That sounds childish, and a bit like Satan at work, but I do think we can work around all that.

 

[Rainrider]

that sounds right.

It sounds like the kind of thing the Rabbis spend lots of time talking about... suppose the child is born at 12:01 AM, when is the eighth day?

does the day begin at sunrise or sunset, and sunset where you live or sunset in Jerusalem?

imo, these things are all very important if one wishes to carefully observe the Law.

The whole time thing, hay if your not in Jerusalem, why would their time matter to you? Don't get me wrong, I have seen with my own eyes that some wish to say it is only the time there that can mark the days. Sorry folks, we have days in the USA as well, and we keep up them all by our clock. I know a bit off for me, Please keep in mind I am still fighting with my self over my blow up. Sorry, I do know I am going to need some pray, its the only thing I can see changing that.

moving on.

As we told in Gen 1, the evening and the Morning mark the days. It is my understanding that the day was set by HaShem, so it would start by His time at Dusk. Now I am not going to tell you how to see this, I can only say that for us, ( am talking about the people that follow this) it seems to be agreed on that the day starts just after the color of the sun set can be seen. I have no clue they came to this, I just know that I have no way to show it one way or the other.
Also in this day and age, I have found it much easier to just say 1800, (6pm)

I do wish to say that in my world, we do our best to stay inside the Law. However it becomes important to understand the Law, and what does and doesn't apply to you. We must also not loss contact with what the Law really is, and what it is meant for.
I like to think of it as HaShem's profile. I that from it one can learn who He is, what He is lie, and what He is looking for in a bride. Does that help any at all? I sure hope so, it seems like I went on for way to long, and I may trip over my self if I keep going. LOL That would hurt, I can see the head lines now, "MAN DEAD FROM HIS OWN BIG FEET." lol

 

[Rainrider]

Here's how I look at it,


is this the commandment of God?

On the eighth day she shall take two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, and bring them to the priest, to the door of the Tent of Meeting.

if so, then nobody is keeping it.

I think what you are doing is placing the sacrificial system on us today. There are 2 things wrong with that idea.
1 HaShem told us in the OT what He wanted.
Psa 40:6
You take no delight in sacrifices or offerings. Now that you have made me listen, I finally understand you don't require burnt offerings or sin offerings.
Jer 6:20
There's no use offering me sweet frankincense from Sheba. Keep your fragrant calamus imported from distant lands! I will not accept your burnt offerings. Your sacrifices have no pleasing aroma for me.”
Hos 6:6
I want you to show love, not offer sacrifices.
I want you to know me more than I want burnt offerings.

As I said, I see the Torah as His profile. It is from understanding the truth behind His law, that we can see the true Him.

Rather,
from John 15, This is my commandment, that you love one another, even as I have loved you.

so yes! the commandment of God and faith in Jesus go hand-in-hand!

Of the 2 that are given by Yeshua, if we work to keep just them, the rest fall into place. If we love HaShem, then the first for will be kept.
If we love one another then the last 5 will be kept.
It is good to note that there are more than just the 10C that one should look at. After all, any that wish the Law to go away, still follow many of them, ever when they say they don't.
Take tithes, perverted sexual acts, not offering you kids to ideals, not cutting your self, this can go on, though I think you get the idea.

I can't wait to get your reply. You always have something reverent to add. I do hope it makes me think as well.

 

[Burninglight]

I reported myself, becuase it really got to bugging me how I went off. I know it was wrong, and the only way I seen to make it write in my heart was to report myself.
Keep in mind, I am only sorry for the way I said what I did. I am not sorry for it's meaning. Funny when you think about it. If I am not sorry for the meaning, then why does it bug so much? You got an answer to that one? I sure don't.

I understand this. It happens to me all the time. Sometimes, I know the answer and God wants me to keep quiet which is hard to do. Just because we are right and see better than someone else doesn't mean we have to be the ones to tell them especially when we know they might dig in their heels and not receive it. Sometimes, I think I am perfectly right, and I am dead wrong.

We can even be gentle and sincere in correcting someone and be sincerely wrong. We owe our love to one another; sometimes it can come in the form of rebuke, but either way, when we are rebuke, we can ask God is there any truth to it even if we don't like the person it comes from, it might still be true. This is what causes us to grow especially when they are wrong about us and we take it patiently.

Hang in there.

 

[Rainrider]

I understand this. It happens to me all the time. Sometimes, I know the answer and God wants me to keep quiet which is hard to do. Just because we are right and see better than someone else doesn't mean we have to be the ones to tell them especially when we know they might dig in their heels and not receive it. Sometimes, I think I am perfectly right, and I am dead wrong.

We can even be gentle and sincere in correcting someone and be sincerely wrong. We owe our love to one another; sometimes it can come in the form of rebuke, but either way, when we are rebuke, we can ask God is there any truth to it even if we don't like the person it comes from, it might still be true. This is what causes us to grow especially when they are wrong about us and we take it patiently.

Hang in there.

How true. I will say that I am alot better about not blowing my top than I once was. That I have to give thanks for. I was not a likeable person, and back then I loved it that way. What I didn't know then was that I was going have to defeat that demon one day. Was not easy, yet with His grace, and His strength I did get past it. Sadly Satan knows the buttons to push, and he knows I still can't stand somethings, and others I have got to where it is like what ever.
That is what Paul was telling us when he said He dyes daily. have to keep on killig that old self, or their simply is no room for the New you.

 

[Ariel82]

I nether let others condemn me nor do I condemn them for what they wish to do. Trust me is not for a lack of trying on the part of many on here. Though as I read this, Paul was not speaking of Torah here. rather he was speaking of the misuse of Torah. If you will note, it tells us that they are a shadow of things TO COME, he has not placed them in the past. as would be the case had he said they were, rather than they are.

As for, asceticism. NO place in the OT places a prohibition on alcohol. Yet in his time the teaching of many things that are not in the OT were be passed off as truth, and in many cases Law. Even to the point of the worship of angles. That can still be seen today,




Here we find Paul asking why if a person is no longer of this world would they still follow the ways of the world. He is trying to get them to see the truth, in that once we are free of this world, we should then follow the way of HaShem and not man.

*****


As I am sure you can see I simply do not see the way you do. I gave you what I see in the passages you opened with, and I am not about to condemn anyone if they wish to follow any other thinking, That is not my job, HaShem will show us the truth when we get to the Judgment Set, until then I will keep on keeping on. Though I will say that what you have posted in way tells me anything about the Law being removed, in fat it shows me that it has not been. That is once a person reads it in context with the whole of the Word. Just me, no matter what you say, I am me. I understand that the road I on is the right one, for me. Keep in mind, that if I am wrong I loss nothing at all. If on the other hand you are wrong, what can you loss?

No..... if your foundation is not Christ Jesus,then you gain nothing at all. Without the New Covenant based on what Jesus accomplished on the cross,His resurrection and ascension.,,,,you don't have a saving faith. Without a saving faith and the Holy spirit seal, what you lose is heaven for you never gain salvation,

If I am wrong about Jesus and the fact He has fulfilled the law? I lose nothing because I follow God who is just and sees that my heart seeks Him.
.

Whwether you have a saving faith or have been sealed by the Holy spirit, I don't know..,,,however, if you trust in your law keeping for your salvation ...,,you have fallen away from the Gospel of grace.

I am not going to debate it.

If you really want to discuss it, you can pm me.otherwise I will leave you to your thread.

 

[Rainrider]

No..... if your foundation is not Christ Jesus,then you gain nothing at all. Without the New Covenant based on what Jesus accomplished on the cross,His resurrection and ascension.,,,,you don't have a saving faith. Without a saving faith and the Holy spirit seal, what you lose is heaven for you never gain salvation,

If I am wrong about Jesus and the fact He has fulfilled the law? I lose nothing because I follow God who is just and sees that my heart seeks Him.
.

Whwether you have a saving faith or have been sealed by the Holy spirit, I don't know..,,,however, if you trust in your law keeping for your salvation ...,,you have fallen away from the Gospel of grace.

I am not going to debate it.

If you really want to discuss it, you can pm me.otherwise I will leave you to your thread.

I am only to say this one last time. I understand that you most likly haven't seen it, and it seems that you are speaking from love and a lack of understanding me.
I don't keep the Law to be saved, I keep because I am saved.
Salvation has always and will always come by faith.

 

[gotime]

This is where logic and common sense comes in.

Someone doing what the law says is actually the result of salvation. We are saved from sin, sin is breaking the law. thus we are saved from breaking the law in a manner of words.

If one continues to break the law then one continues to sin and that one is saved from nothing.

 

[Burninglight]

How true. I will say that I am alot better about not blowing my top than I once was. That I have to give thanks for. I was not a likeable person, and back then I loved it that way. What I didn't know then was that I was going have to defeat that demon one day. Was not easy, yet with His grace, and His strength I did get past it. Sadly Satan knows the buttons to push, and he knows I still can't stand somethings, and others I have got to where it is like what ever.
That is what Paul was telling us when he said He dyes daily. have to keep on killig that old self, or their simply is no room for the New you.

Well, you said a mouth full there. I agree 100%. You know. I have heard people say "I wish I were dead," but I never hear them say "I wish I were dying," lol, but that is exactly what we are called to do. Like you said. Dying daily is very painful and having to deal with a demon that tries to rob us of the joy of the Lord which is our strength, but if we yield to it God, He deals with us as sons, and that is what brings about the fruit of the Spirit in our lives that God is really after. That we might bear fruit. Why? So others can benefit like a tree brings fruit for our good; we than bear fruit to built up the lovely body of the church who is the precious bride of Christ.

 

[Rainrider]

This is where logic and common sense comes in.

Someone doing what the law says is actually the result of salvation. We are saved from sin, sin is breaking the law. thus we are saved from breaking the law in a manner of words.

If one continues to break the law then one continues to sin and that one is saved from nothing.

And yet no one can live a sin free life. Granted that we don't do so knowingly, or willingly. Yet we do. Any one that thinks they don't sin, is living a dream world.

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

However this tread is about teh truth behind the law that has nothing to with if keep the law, so this kind of thing will no longer be answered. Thank you for keep with the TRUE TOPIC.

 

[Rainrider]

Well, you said a mouth full there. I agree 100%. You know. I have heard people say "I wish I were dead," but I never hear them say "I wish I were dying," lol, but that is exactly what we are called to do. Like you said. Dying daily is very painful and having to deal with a demon that tries to rob us of the joy of the Lord which is our strength, but if we yield to it God, He deals with us as sons, and that is what brings about the fruit of the Spirit in our lives that God is really after. That we might bear fruit. Why? So others can benefit like a tree brings fruit for our good; we than bear fruit to built up the lovely body of the church who is the precious bride of Christ.

Let me ask you something. I am more asking to see if any in the world thinks this way. When you think about the feast, (if you do that is) do you think in the 1000 year rain of Yeshua we will keep them, and so, to what end? And will their be sin on earth at time?

I do as,
Zec 14:16 ¶And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

What I am unsure of is the why, and most of all, why would anyone not want to go and spend time in His presentments?

I am going to say you may wish to read that whole chapter, I have pondered this for years. In fact it was this chapter that lead my keeping the feast. Little did I know what things I would learn of my LORD from keeping them, and giving a day over to keeping them in mind.


Any input would be great. Thanks

 

[LoveGodForever]

No..... if your foundation is not Christ Jesus,then you gain nothing at all. Without the New Covenant based on what Jesus accomplished on the cross,His resurrection and ascension.,,,,you don't have a saving faith. Without a saving faith and the Holy spirit seal, what you lose is heaven for you never gain salvation,

If I am wrong about Jesus and the fact He has fulfilled the law? I lose nothing because I follow God who is just and sees that my heart seeks Him.

Whwether you have a saving faith or have been sealed by the Holy spirit, I don't know..,,,however, if you trust in your law keeping for your salvation ...,,you have fallen away from the Gospel of grace.

I am not going to debate it.

If you really want to discuss it, you can pm me.otherwise I will leave you to your thread.

I am sure Ariel means well.

I just wanted to add a comment from a different perspective. While it is true that our foundation needs to be in Jesus. Many people do not realize what that means. Jesus is the WORD of God (John 1:1-4). Some people like to cherry pick the Word of God to suit their own beliefs, but Jesus tells us that life comes by EVERY Word that proceeds from the mouth of God (Matt 4:4). If we only choose certain parts of God's Word and close our eyes to other parts then we are not really believing or following God and this is not a saving faith.

God bless

 

[garee]

I nether let others condemn me nor do I condemn them for what they wish to do. Trust me is not for a lack of trying on the part of many on here. Though as I read this, Paul was not speaking of Torah here. rather he was speaking of the misuse of Torah. If you will note, it tells us that they are a shadow of things TO COME, he has not placed them in the past. as would be the case had he said they were, rather than they are.

They are still shadows and not the very spiritual substance . And it is not misuse of the word of God but misuse of the shadows.We look to the things seen to reveal the things not seen

The time or reformation had come... What time period do you think the goverment of God was restored to as a result of those shadows being fulfilled...

Why did Chrst call the "law of the fathers" as cpoming from a brood of vipers? and last do we need men to teach us the scriptures

 

[Burninglight]

Let me ask you something. I am more asking to see if any in the world thinks this way. When you think about the feast, (if you do that is) do you think in the 1000 year rain of Yeshua we will keep them, and so, to what end? And will their be sin on earth at time?

I do as,
Zec 14:16 ¶And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

What I am unsure of is the why, and most of all, why would anyone not want to go and spend time in His presentments?

I am going to say you may wish to read that whole chapter, I have pondered this for years. In fact it was this chapter that lead my keeping the feast. Little did I know what things I would learn of my LORD from keeping them, and giving a day over to keeping them in mind.


Any input would be great. Thanks

I don't know the answer to this. Sorry

 

[Rainrider]

They are still shadows and not the very spiritual substance . And it is not misuse of the word of God but misuse of the shadows.We look to the things seen to reveal the things not seen

The time or reformation had come... What time period do you think the goverment of God was restored to as a result of those shadows being fulfilled...

Why did Chrst call the "law of the fathers" as cpoming from a brood of vipers? and last do we need men to teach us the scriptures

If one takes out of context the Word, they can nerve find truth in it. The phrase "Blood of vipers, is only found 4 times in the Bible, not once it is used in concretion with the Law. If you find it used in a passage that is not listed, please post that passage so I can see it.
Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Mat 12:34 “Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
Mat 23:33 “Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?
Luk 3:7 Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Just to be clear I looked in some 17 different translation to be sure I know what I was saying was in Context, and not removed from any of the ones I have on hand.
The phrase was only found in 4 translations, and only in the passages I posted.
So to answer your question, He never did.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello RainRider,

Let me ask you something. I am more asking to see if any in the world thinks this way. When you think about the feast, (if you do that is) do you think in the 1000 year rain of Yeshua we will keep them, and so, to what end? And will their be sin on earth at time?

First of all, you have to remember that, during the thousand year reign of Christ, the church will have been previously resurrected and the living in Christ will have been changed into the those immoral and glorified bodies. Therefore, the church will be ruling with Christ during His thousand year reign. The scripture that you referenced above is directed at those who will still be in their mortal bodies during the millennium and who will still have their sinful nature. These are those who will be going up from year to year to the feast of Tabernacles, those nations that are allowed to enter into the millennial kingdom.

As for the church, the great tribulation saints and the 144,000, we will be ruling with Christ in our immortal and glorified bodies.

Hope this helps

 

[Rainrider]

I don't know the answer to this. Sorry

Well there you go, popping my bubble. LOL Not even an idea?

 

[Rainrider]

I am sure Ariel means well.

I just wanted to add a comment from a different perspective. While it is true that our foundation needs to be in Jesus. Many people do not realize what that means. Jesus is the WORD of God (John 1:1-4). Some people like to cherry pick the Word of God to suit their own beliefs, but Jesus tells us that life comes by EVERY Word that proceeds from the mouth of God (Matt 4:4). If we only choose certain parts of God's Word and close our eyes to other parts then we are not really believing or following God and this is not a saving faith.

God bless

I am also sure that Ariel had no ill intent. I said as much in my reply. Though I must say that after rereading it, it did not sound like it did in my head. For that I must apologize. As they seem to have found it rude, and not returned, I will make good on that some other way.

 

[Rainrider]

Hello RainRider,



First of all, you have to remember that, during the thousand year reign of Christ, the church will have been previously resurrected and the living in Christ will have been changed into the those immoral and glorified bodies. Therefore, the church will be ruling with Christ during His thousand year reign. The scripture that you referenced above is directed at those who will still be in their mortal bodies during the millennium and who will still have their sinful nature. These are those who will be going up from year to year to the feast of Tabernacles, those nations that are allowed to enter into the millennial kingdom.

As for the church, the great tribulation saints and the 144,000, we will be ruling with Christ in our immortal and glorified bodies.

Hope this helps

I didn't not ask in that manner. As I do know that when one speeks of a Rapture, they will open a can of worms that is best left closed. NOt every thinks we will removed from the this earth for the Trib. After all If HaShem can keep His children safe in Egypt, when the rest of Egypt is facing the plagues, why can he find so hard to repeat that same action?
Also if you read Ex. you will find that when it was dark all over Egypt, His children still had light.
So that doesn't wash with me on both counts.

No point in try to a case for the Rapture, first I don't see one in the word, second, no matter what you will not change my mind on that topic.

 

[Dan_473]

The whole time thing, hay if your not in Jerusalem, why would their time matter to you? Don't get me wrong, I have seen with my own eyes that some wish to say it is only the time there that can mark the days. Sorry folks, we have days in the USA as well, and we keep up them all by our clock. I know a bit off for me, Please keep in mind I am still fighting with my self over my blow up. Sorry, I do know I am going to need some pray, its the only thing I can see changing that.

moving on.

As we told in Gen 1, the evening and the Morning mark the days. It is my understanding that the day was set by HaShem, so it would start by His time at Dusk. Now I am not going to tell you how to see this, I can only say that for us, ( am talking about the people that follow this) it seems to be agreed on that the day starts just after the color of the sun set can be seen. I have no clue they came to this, I just know that I have no way to show it one way or the other.
Also in this day and age, I have found it much easier to just say 1800, (6pm)

I do wish to say that in my world, we do our best to stay inside the Law. However it becomes important to understand the Law, and what does and doesn't apply to you. We must also not loss contact with what the Law really is, and what it is meant for.
I like to think of it as HaShem's profile. I that from it one can learn who He is, what He is lie, and what He is looking for in a bride. Does that help any at all? I sure hope so, it seems like I went on for way to long, and I may trip over my self if I keep going. LOL That would hurt, I can see the head lines now, "MAN DEAD FROM HIS OWN BIG FEET." lol

when it's 1800 in one part of the world, it's 0600 the next day in another.

when Genesis says Evening and Morning, then, is it talking about a particular place? If day six closes at different times around the world, when did God start resting?

I agree, it doesn't need to be a big deal, but it is for some Jewish Rabbis, because they want so much to keep the law exactly right.