The Walking Stones on the Racetrack Playa

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Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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First documented by miners back in the 1900s, these rocks range from pebbles to 600-pound (272-kilogram) boulders and seem to move of their own accord. The only evidence of their activity is a series of long, perplexing trails left in the valley’s dried mud. (Related: “Stranger Than Nature: Death Valley’s Moving Rocks.”)
Scientists have been trying to solve the mystery of the sliding rocks since 1948, and have since proposed all manner of explanation: dust devils, flooding, ice sheets, hurricane-force winds, and algal films
Source: Watch Death Valley’s Rocks Walk Before Your Eyes – National Geographic Society (blogs)


moving-rocks-02-600x900.jpg


They say they figured it out,

Unlike one of the previous explanations, which had thick ice capturing the rocks and carrying them along like a miniature glacier, Norris said their evidence shows that thin ice floes break up and pile against the rocks. This creates enough friction to cause the rocks to skim across the muddy surface of a temporary pond. If you were there to see it, the rocks would look like ice-breaker ships plowing through sea ice—though in this instance, it’s the ice that’s moving the ships.


I ain't buying that explanation. The stones have been reported to moved at different times of the year so if related to freezing conditions then how do they explain the times the stones have been observed having moved when freezing conditions were not present? They don't.

Maybe it is the finger of God pushing them?
 
the area was a sacred place to the anasazi and aztecs. ice moving the rocks wouldnt account for the condensed energy thats held in the area that screws up instruments on airplanes and such. it also is situated on the same latitude as giza and many other ancient sacred monuments.
 
Now I know where all those pet rocks came from back in the 60s
 
Its evolution... The rocks are trying to become human!

(Please note. I am not serious!)
 
".. if you try to explain, they don't always want to hear the answers"
​

IMHO this is a great summary of this entire section of the forum. the people who like to keep it going, and who predominantly keep it active with new threads, do not want answers, even if all or almost all of the questions raised do have legitimate, definable, demonstrable and reasonable explanations. it looks plain to me that in the majority of these topics, what is desired is to make people go "
ooh" and marvel at mystery; what is not desired is actual answers. these are fishing-lures for proselytes who can then be indoctrinated further into various supposed mysteries, so that imagination - rather than evidence and reason - can be magnified.

And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great​
 
for example, the fruit:

the area was a sacred place to the anasazi and aztecs.

talking like a pagan


ice moving the rocks wouldnt account for the condensed energy thats held in the area


what does that even mean? an appeal to mysticism without any definition or basis


that screws up instruments on airplanes and such.

what? since when?
any basis for this freshly-minted rumor?
any evidence?
none at all that i know of, and none presented.


it also is situated on the same latitude as giza and many other ancient sacred monuments.

again, talking like a pagan.




not picking on you jaybird -- you just happened to make a comment that perfectly demonstrates the nature of this issue.
 
the area was a sacred place to the anasazi and aztecs.

talking like a pagan


i dont get the point? are you saying it was not sacred to them?




what does that even mean? an appeal to mysticism without any definition or basis

something makes instruments not work proper. i think its energy but i could be wrong on that. i know ice does not do this. mysticism?? what are you going on about?


what? since when?
any basis for this freshly-minted rumor?
any evidence?
none at all that i know of, and none presented.

The Mysterious Zone of Silence of Mexico | Facts Legend

This patch of desert is very unusual. The very first incident that placed this zone in limelight was a 1930s incident. A man named Francisco Sarabia was flying over the area when he reported that his radio died and all his plane’s instruments went haywire. About 4 decades later, the White Sands Missile Base located in New Mexico fired a missile. Weirdly, the missile ended up crashing in the zone.



again, talking like a pagan.


does this mean it is not on the same latitude?

not picking on you jaybird -- you just happened to make a comment that perfectly demonstrates the nature of this issue.

nature of what issue?
and whats the deal with all the "talking like a pagan" comments? why dont you just say whats on your mind.
 
the area was a sacred place to the anasazi and aztecs. ice moving the rocks wouldnt account for the condensed energy thats held in the area that screws up instruments on airplanes and such. it also is situated on the same latitude as giza and many other ancient sacred monuments.
talking like a pagan

ice moving the rocks wouldnt account for the condensed energy thats held in the area
Sounds like something a modern physicist would say...

:D
 
IMHO this is a great summary of this entire section of the forum. the people who like to keep it going, and who predominantly keep it active with new threads, do not want answers, even if all or almost all of the questions raised do have legitimate, definable, demonstrable and reasonable explanations. it looks plain to me that in the majority of these topics, what is desired is to make people go "ooh" and marvel at mystery; what is not desired is actual answers. these are fishing-lures for proselytes who can then be indoctrinated further into various supposed mysteries, so that imagination - rather than evidence and reason - can be magnified. ​

​

While you don't specifically say whether you agree with the answer given in the source you cited, yet the quote you provided from source you cited was made by a park ranger that wasn't even made to the author of the article. If you checked you might just find that the quote was made in regards to the rocks being moved by pranksters. After all the article states, " But no one has actually seen the rocks move, which only adds to the mystery."

From outer space to Death Valley
In 2006, Ralph Lorenz, a NASA scientist investigating weather conditions on other planets, took an interest in Death Valley.
But while investigating Death Valley, he became intrigued by the enigmatic sailing stones of Racetrack Playa.
Lorenz developed a kitchen-table model — using an ordinary Tupperware container — to show how the rocks might glide across the surface of the lake bed.
"I took a small rock and put it in a piece of Tupperware, and filled it with water so there was an inch of water with a bit of the rock sticking out," Lorenz told Smithsonian.com.
After putting the container in the freezer, Lorenz ended up with a small slab of ice with a rock embedded in it. By placing the ice-bound rock in a large tray of water with sand at the bottom, all he had to do was gently blow on the rock to get it to move across the water.
And as the ice-embedded rock moved, it scraped a trail in the sand at the tray's bottom.
So what would you consider a less than a quarter of an inch a down pour? But here is a link to Lorenz's hypothesis. http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/JAMC-D-11-075.1

4. Resultsa. Precipitation
As is typical for the southwestern United States, the precipitation in our area of interest is zero for long periods of time, punctuated by occasional downpours.
Death Valley weather averages

Annual low temperature:
Average temperature:77.15°F
Average annual precipitation - rainfall:2.4 inch

[TD="class: totals_left_column"]Annual high temperature:[/TD]
[TD="class: temperature_red totals_right_column"]91.4°F[/TD]

[TD="class: temperature_blue"]62.9°F[/TD]


/\
Source: Climate Death Valley - California and Weather averages Death Valley - Weather history november 2009
\/

Weather history Death Valley january 2007

[TABLE="class: daily_climate_table, width: 439"]
[TR]
[TH="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day, align: left"]Day[/TH]
[TH="class: climate_table_data_td, align: right"]High

(°F)[/TH]
[TH="class: climate_table_data_td, align: right"]Low

(°F)[/TH]
[TH="class: climate_table_data_td, align: right"]Precip.

(inch)[/TH]
[TH="class: climate_table_data_td, align: right"]Snow

(inch)[/TH]
[TH="class: climate_table_data_td, align: right"][/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]1 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]60.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]34.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]2 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]75.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]55.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]3 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]73.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]42.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]4 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]71.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]36.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]5 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]64.9[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]45.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.02[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]6 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]59.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]44.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]7 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]57.9[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]37.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]8 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]70.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]36.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]9 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]71.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]43.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]10 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]72.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]37.9[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]11 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]64.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]34.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]12 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]70.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]39.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]13 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]53.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]32.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]14 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]50.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]24.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]15 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]48.9[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]28.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]16 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]60.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]36.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]17 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]60.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]25.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]18 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]61.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]30.9[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]19 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]70.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]46.9[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]20 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]73.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]37.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]21 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]66.9[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]44.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]22 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]66.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]50.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]23 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]69.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]37.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]24 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]69.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]36.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]25 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]71.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]35.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]26 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]71.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]35.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]27 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]69.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]35.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]28 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]70.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]45.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]29 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]72.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]53.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]30 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]75.9[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]46.9[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]31 jan 2007[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]66.9[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]45.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

So what would be the falsifiability of Lorenz's hypothesis?

If the hypothesis is based upon ice being attached to the rock creating the buoyancy (vertical lift) necessary to allow linear movement of the rock then would you agree that if the rocks moved when freezing conditions were not present then the hypothesis would be debunked?

If you read the hypothesis you will find this statement at the link address provided above

This gives some hope that regional records are relevant for assessing conditions at Racetrack (especially since the rocks are believed to move most in winter).

Corresponding author address: Ralph Lorenz, Space Dept., Applied Physics Laboratory, The Johns Hopkins University, 11100 Johns Hopkins Rd., Laurel, MD 21046. E-mail: [email protected]
 
these stones were actually captured in motion with time-lapse cameras, gps devices and a weather station set up to observe them in the winter of 2013-2014

link to paper:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0105948



Abstract

The engraved trails of rocks on the nearly flat, dry mud surface of Racetrack Playa, Death Valley National Park, have excited speculation about the movement mechanism since the 1940s. Rock movement has been variously attributed to high winds, liquid water, ice, or ice flotation, but has not been previously observed in action. We recorded the first direct scientific observation of rock movements using GPS-instrumented rocks and photography, in conjunction with a weather station and time-lapse cameras. The largest observed rock movement involved >60 rocks on December 20, 2013 and some instrumented rocks moved up to 224 m between December 2013 and January 2014 in multiple move events. In contrast with previous hypotheses of powerful winds or thick ice floating rocks off the playa surface, the process of rock movement that we have observed occurs when the thin, 3 to 6 mm, “windowpane” ice sheet covering the playa pool begins to melt in late morning sun and breaks up under light winds of ∼4–5 m/s. Floating ice panels 10 s of meters in size push multiple rocks at low speeds of 2–5 m/min. along trajectories determined by the direction and velocity of the wind as well as that of the water flowing under the ice.

 
So what would you consider a less than a quarter of an inch a down pour? But here is a link to Lorenz's hypothesis. http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/JAMC-D-11-075.1

if you read the paper in the link ((which discusses in depth the meteorological conditions there)), you'll find that there are typically "10's of days per year" during which there is a 3-6mm or thicker sheet of ice across the playa ((1/4 inch is about 6mm)). further observation in 2013-2014, in the paper i posted above, showed definitively that when these conditions exist alongside sufficient windy conditions, the rocks move as hypothesized. the observations in 2013-2014 recorded no movement when these conditions were not present.
 
Our weather station data and time lapse camera images revealed that the only significant rainfall was on November 21–24 when a combined total of 3.61 cm of rain, and ∼20 cm of snow fell during a regional winter storm (Fig. 5).Our weather station data and time lapse camera images revealed that the only significant rainfall was on November 21–24 when a combined total of 3.61 cm of rain, and ∼20 cm of snow fell during a regional winter storm (Fig. 5).

3/10 of an inch is not 3.61 cm. 3.61 cm is 1.42 inches. It did not rain 1 1/2 inches.
The temperature did not get below freezing either.


Weather history Death Valley november 2013

[TABLE="class: daily_climate_table, width: 439"]
[TR]
[TH="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day, align: left"]Day[/TH]
[TH="class: climate_table_data_td, align: right"]High

(°F)[/TH]
[TH="class: climate_table_data_td, align: right"]Low

(°F)[/TH]
[TH="class: climate_table_data_td, align: right"]Precip.

(inch)[/TH]
[TH="class: climate_table_data_td, align: right"]Snow

(inch)[/TH]
[TH="class: climate_table_data_td, align: right"]Snow
depth
(inch)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"][/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"][/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]17 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]78.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]50.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]18 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]77.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]51.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]19 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]77.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]53.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]20 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]75.9[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]55.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]21 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]78.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]51.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]22 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]68.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]52.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.11[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]23 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]60.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]51.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.18[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]24 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]59.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]46.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.09[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]25 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]68.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]42.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]26 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]69.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]43.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]27 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]69.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]48.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]28 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]70.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]46.9[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]29 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]70.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]45.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]30 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]68.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]43.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


death vsdf.jpg



So what would be the falsifiability of Lorenz's hypothesis?

Just because Lorenz's data says this and says that, have you ever read 1 John 4:1?
Beloved, believe not every spirit (word), but try the spirits (words) whether they are of God (truth): because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Prov 14:15
15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.
KJV
 
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Did you read the papers?

Rocks were filmed moving in December and January, and the paper you linked on the meteorological conditions showed how average conditions for greater death valley don't necessarily reflect local condition in the playa. So why are you posting the wrong month and the wrong temperature?
 
Did you read the papers?

YES: Did you make any effort to validate the data recorded in the papers?

Rocks were filmed moving in December and January,

Provide a link to the video.

and the paper you linked on the meteorological conditions showed how average conditions for greater death valley

INCORRECT:
Post 15 doesn't show the avg. but the recorded daily HIGH / LOW / PRECIPITATION at their respective locations in the Death Valley area.

don't necessarily reflect local condition in the playa.


CORRECT: There is no facility in the Racetrack Playa that records weather data. However, one can triangulate temperatures from surrounding locations in the proximate area to determine whether freezing conditions existed in a specific location without actually being there.

The data shows that freezing conditions were not present until Dec. 6th, yet the Abstract itself said that there was no "significant' rainfall after the period of Nov 21st - 26th.

The Abstract the data was highly suspect in reporting 3.61 cm (1.5") of rainfall/snow during the short period since the average rainfall for the area is only 2 -4 inches a year. The weather data reflects .38 of an inch during that period.
[TABLE="class: daily_climate_table, width: 439"]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]21 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]78.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]51.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]22 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]68.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]52.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.11[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]23 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]60.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]51.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.18[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]24 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]59.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]46.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.09[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: align_left daily_climate_table_td_day"]25 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_red, align: right"]68.0[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data temperature_blue, align: right"]42.1[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: align_right climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


So why are you posting the wrong month and the wrong temperature?

That is a misrepresentation of the information provided since the report itself stated.

Our weather station data and time lapse camera images revealed that the only significant rainfall was on November 21–24

If no rain was reported after Nov. 24th and freezing temperatures were not present until Dec 5th then the likelyhood of 3/10th of an inch of rain remaining on the playa for 10+ days until freezing conditions would have been present makes the likelihood of standing water being present in order to freeze suspect.

But in conclusion, the writing is on the wall....

​sf.jpg
​


 
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put all this data together; what is the picture it makes?
magical congealed energy fairies? demons practicing for football season? invisible capricious alien imps? mystical crystals harnessing desert scorpion shakras? mesmerism? "mystery" ?
if there are gnomes pushing these things around when the nebula are colored and aligned just so, and that's the real explanation, why don't we see their footprints? and where is the time-lapse field camera footage of that
happening? ;)




journal.pone.0105948.g005.jpg

Figure 5. Weather record from Racetrack Playa, Death Valley National Park.
Temperature (red line), 1 hour average wind velocity (black line), insolation (blue line), and rainfall (filled blue line) for November 20, 2013 to January 9, 2014. Wind gusts shown in Fig. 9. Red arrows indicate known rock movement events; there have been additional movement events not recorded by direct observations. Movement events 1 and 2 are recorded by instrumented rocks, and direct observations were made for events 2–4. Time lapse camera observation shows ∼20 cm of snow accumulation on November 23. Total precipitation is likely under-recorded because our weather station does not record precipitation due to snow. Data reported in Table S1.



journal.pone.0105948.g009.jpg

Figure 9. Gusts and average wind velocities.Comparison of average hourly wind velocity (black, as shown in Fig. 4) and hourly maximum wind velocity (green) against the daily temperature record (red line) and rock movement history (red arrows). Data reported in Table S1.
 
Last edited:
Figure 5. Weather record from Racetrack Playa, Death Valley National Park.
Temperature (red line), 1 hour average wind velocity (black line), insolation (blue line), and rainfall (filled blue line) for November 20, 2013 to January 9, 2014. Wind gusts shown in Fig. 9. Red arrows indicate known rock movement events; there have been additional movement events not recorded by direct observations. Movement events 1 and 2 are recorded by instrumented rocks, and direct observations were made for events 2–4. Time lapse camera observation shows ∼20 cm of snow accumulation on November 23. Total precipitation is likely under-recorded because our weather station does not record precipitation due to snow. Data reported in Table S1.

The failed to report whether it was dry snow or wet snow, suspect! :)


[TABLE="class: cms_table_daily_climate_table, width: 439"]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_align_left cms_table_daily_climate_table_td_day"]23 nov 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_align_right cms_table_climate_table_data cms_table_temperature_red, align: right"]60.1[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_align_right cms_table_climate_table_data cms_table_temperature_blue, align: right"]51.1[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_align_right cms_table_climate_table_data, align: right"]0.18[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_align_right cms_table_climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_align_right cms_table_climate_table_data, align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

graph3.jpg

As the weather data submitted in my previous post .18 of inch of rain and 51 degrees low temperature might explain why the snow wasn't reported as being wet or dry.


 
Last edited: