Not By Works

[JoDel]

The above assumes a lot of things, which cannot just be assumed.
Christ died to open a door of restoration with Him, which by its nature is
based on free will, which is the essence of love.

The Lord is our servant, He meets our needs, His desire is to help and empower
us to do the things that need doing. And we also freely choose to be like Him.
We cannot be like Him unless this is a free choice. So salvation as to be open,
to be received or walked away from. If you do not understand this is implicit in
God himself, you have not understood who He is.

Believers believe many different things, and being righteous is not one of the
ones I see expressed as their desperate desire. If anything their desire is to
mock and pour scorn on those who do desire righteousness and love, and claim
spiritual experience and authority trumps love and righteousness.

So it appears you are wrong on both propositions from my perspective.

RE: righteousness of believers... I usually do not reference or read commentaries... but thought this may "help" you to aspire to righteousness that IS YOURS IN CHRIST JESUS.... New International VersionThis righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

New Living Translation​

We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

English Standard Version​

the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:

Berean Study Bible​

And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction,

Berean Literal Bible​

And the righteousness of God is through faith from Jesus Christ toward all those believing. For there is no distinction,

New American Standard Bible ​

even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

King James Bible​

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Holman Christian Standard Bible​

--that is, God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ, to all who believe, since there is no distinction.

International Standard Version​

God's righteousness through the faithfulness of Jesus the Messiah — for all who believe. For there is no distinction among people,

NET Bible​

namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction,

New Heart English Bible​

even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all those who believe. For there is no distinction,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English​

But the righteousness of God is by the faith of Yeshua The Messiah unto every person, also upon every person who believes in him, for there is no distinction,

GOD'S WORD® Translation​

Everyone who believes has God's approval through faith in Jesus Christ. There is no difference between people.

New American Standard 1977 ​

even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

Jubilee Bible 2000​

the righteousness, that is, of God by the faith of Jesus, the Christ, for all and upon all those that believe in him, for there is no difference;

King James 2000 Bible​

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith in Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

American King James Version​

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ to all and on all them that believe: for there is no difference:

American Standard Version​

even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;

Douay-Rheims Bible​

Even the justice of God, by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe in him: for there is no distinction:

Darby Bible Translation​

righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ towards all, and upon all those who believe: for there is no difference;

English Revised Version​

even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;

Webster's Bible Translation​

Even the righteousness of God, which is by faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all them that believe; for there is no difference:

Weymouth New Testament​

a righteousness coming from God, which depends on faith in Jesus Christ and extends to all who believe. No distinction is made;

World English Bible​

even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction,

Young's Literal Translation​

and the righteousness of God is through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference,
Commentary
Matthew Henry Commentary
3:21-26 Must guilty man remain under wrath? Is the wound for ever incurable? No; blessed be God, there is another way laid open for us. This is the righteousness of God; righteousness of his ordaining, and providing, and accepting. It is by that faith which has Jesus Christ for its object; an anointed Saviour, so Jesus Christ signifies. Justifying faith respects Christ as a Saviour, in all his three anointed offices, as Prophet, Priest, and King; trusting in him, accepting him, and cleaving to him: in all these, Jews and Gentiles are alike welcome to God through Christ. There is no difference, his righteousness is upon all that believe; not only offered to them, but put upon them as a crown, as a robe. It is free grace, mere mercy; there is nothing in us to deserve such favours. It comes freely unto us, but Christ bought it, and paid the price. And faith has special regard to the blood of Christ, as that which made the atonement. God, in all this, declares his righteousness. It is plain that he hates sin, when nothing less than the blood of Christ would satisfy for it. And it would not agree with his justice to demand the debt, when the Surety has paid it, and he has accepted that payment in full satisfaction.

Romans 3:22 ​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The first generation ALL died EG, they did not enter in because of their continual unbelief, only Caleb and Joshua of the first generation entered the promise land and with the 2nd generation...God never left nor forsook the first generation, but they died in the wilderness after not believing the report of the 2 spies.

Numbers 13 & 14

Numbers 26.63-65
[SUP]63 [/SUP]These are those who were numbered by Moses and Eleazar the priest, who numbered the sons of Israel in the plains of Moab by the Jordan at Jericho. [SUP]64 [/SUP]But among these there was not a man of those who were numbered by Moses and Aaron the priest, who numbered the sons of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai. [SUP]65 [/SUP]For the Lord had said of them, “They shall surely die in the wilderness.” And not a man was left of them, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun.

Numbers 32.6-13

[SUP]6 [/SUP]But Moses said to the sons of Gad and to the sons of Reuben, “Shall your brothers go to war while you yourselves sit here? [SUP]7 [/SUP]Now why are you discouraging the sons of Israel from crossing over into the land which the Lord has given them? [SUP]8 [/SUP]This is what your fathers did when I sent them from Kadesh-barnea to see the land. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For when they went up to the valley of Eshcol and saw the land, they discouraged the sons of Israel so that they did not go into the land which the Lord had given them. [SUP]10 [/SUP]So the Lord’s anger burned in that day, and He swore, saying, [SUP]11 [/SUP]‘None of the men who came up from Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob; for they did not follow Me fully, [SUP]12 [/SUP]except Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite and Joshua the son of Nun, for they have followed the Lord fully.’ [SUP]13 [/SUP]So the Lord’s anger burned against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the entire generation of those who had done evil in the sight of the Lord was destroyed.


Heb 3.7-19

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“Today if you hear His voice,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me,
As in the day of trial in the wilderness,
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Where your fathers tried Me by testing Me,
And saw My works for forty years.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Therefore I was angry with this generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they did not know My ways’;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]As I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’”

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, [SUP]15 [/SUP]while it is said,

“Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts, as when they provoked Me.”

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? [SUP]17 [/SUP]And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? [SUP]18 [/SUP]And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? [SUP]19 [/SUP]So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

So with peace, how can you say all the first generation entered in except for Moses?

This absolutely proves that a believer can and will fall away from belief in God and be destroyed for it. God never leaves them nor forsakes them, they left and forsook him.

This is not losing your salvation, this walking away from covenant relationship..

Better notice hard that it is the Holy spirit that says the things in Hebrews 3....

These people never trusted God, that's why they did not enter, where was there works which proved they had faith

they complained at the Red Sea, they complained at the manna, they complained at the rock.

god promised abraham a nation he kept his promise in spite of the fact only a few had faith,

this should give give us hope, god never remits on his promise

 

[Burninglight]

So let's see, do you think God saves people who do not want to be saved? To me that is more Calvinist, it removes free will

free will says god saved whoever chooses to be saved. Right?

But God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to the knowledge of truth. Many are called but few are chosen; maybe few choose to be chosen. No one can just come to Christ unless the father draws him; after, that it is up to the person being drawn to have faith in God's salvation plan (gift).

 

[Meggido]

i have cursed God before does that mean I am not saved?

Peter Denys him three times, did he lose salvation?

How did you curse God EG?

 

[FranC]

Did she ever trust Christ? If she did? how? god never promised a good life, or we would not have pain and suffering.

If if she did have faith, how dare you question her salvation.

EG
YOU question people's salvation every day!

I have to go by what she told me in all the years I've known her. Since 1990.
God never promised a good life. But some people feel very rejected by Him when something like this happens.
Have you ever heard of the Word of Faith movement? Check it out. They expect a lot from God too.

She has become an atheist.
Is she still saved?

Some people get angry with God and get over it.
Some people can't seem to get over it.
Is this abandonment?

If your wife tells you she hates you and walks out on you...
Is she still your wife?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Have you ever, ever ministered with anyone who has lost a child? I think you would re-evaluate your words above if you ever had...

yes I have, and I have seen many in my life in church, I saw some curse god and walk away, I saw some praise God,

i saw saw some walk away for months, some for years, i saw some go into ministry and help others who lost children.

i would never question the salvation of any of them and I am appalled Fran would, especially since she is the one wh always screams we should never judge.

 

[Burninglight]

Getting angry at God and cursing Him is not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

[FranC]

Did this hurt woman curse God as well?

I don't know.
She just said that God did her a wrong.
Eventually she said that she doesn't believe God exists or He wouldn't allow things like this to happen.
She has become a sad and bitter person.
Her husband died at an early age about 8 years ago. In his 60's.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG
YOU question people's salvation every day!

I have to go by what she told me in all the years I've known her. Since 1990.
God never promised a good life. But some people feel very rejected by Him when something like this happens.
Have you ever heard of the Word of Faith movement? Check it out. They expect a lot from God too.

She has become an atheist.
Is she still saved?

Some people get angry with God and get over it.
Some people can't seem to get over it.
Is this abandonment?

If your wife tells you she hates you and walks out on you...
Is she still your wife?

I question a persons gspel not a persons salvation

and i will not question hers, and I am not god, I do not know if she was saved or not,

if she was she still is, god gave her eternal life and the seal of the spirit, and his personal guarantee he would raise her from the dead,

he feels her pain, and he loves her. He paid for her sins.

i know many who deny god on the outside, but have found on the inside pain is so deep, the just can not express their faith.

 

[dcontroversal]

Bike ride on wheeler Missouri National Forest...my back yard hah

 

[Ariel82]

That's awesome Dcon!

 

[Meggido]

yes I have, and I have seen many in my life in church, I saw some curse god and walk away, I saw some praise God,

i saw saw some walk away for months, some for years, i saw some go into ministry and help others who lost children.

i would never question the salvation of any of them and I am appalled Fran would, especially since she is the one wh always screams we should never judge.

Others might be just as appalled that you seem to imply everyone as a level of spiritual maturity that would get them past the hurt of losing a child or that it is a given that we should just take the loss as his divine will and never get hurt or offended by him for it.

I read your reply as, the lady should just trust Christ, and be together than her circumstance, after all God never promised us an easy life...so get on with it already. If I read it wrong than it is on me.

 

[FranC]

That's awesome Dcon!

Leave him alone !
I saw him first.

 

[Meggido]

I don't know.
She just said that God did her a wrong.
Eventually she said that she doesn't believe God exists or He wouldn't allow things like this to happen.
She has become a sad and bitter person.
Her husband died at an early age about 8 years ago. In his 60's.

Through hurts like this is when we have to show the person the absolute love God is and that he is not the author of hurt and pain.

 

[Meggido]

Getting angry at God and cursing Him is not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

If, in your cursing, you say he did the work of the devil, it is....

 

[Ariel82]

I question a persons gspel not a persons salvation

and i will not question hers, and I am not god, I do not know if she was saved or not,

if she was she still is, god gave her eternal life and the seal of the spirit, and his personal guarantee he would raise her from the dead,

he feels her pain, and he loves her. He paid for her sins.

i know many who deny god on the outside, but have found on he ins De sir pain is so deep, the just can not express their faith.

Some people don't reject God...they reject the false platitudes Christians say and make.

like Job's friends who have him false comfort or accuse people of "lacking faith" and that's why bad things happen to them.

.they don't always turn from God but from the false image of God that people claim to be true.

Sometimes God leads us away from what we know to a deeper relationship with Him and His truth.

I would recommend "When God doesn't fix it" by Laura Story. It helped me see what we as Christians can do to someone suffering that actually hurts them instead of helps.

If we looked at Moses before the burning bush and after killing the Egptian, what would we see? He married the daughter of a pagan priest.

 

[JoDel]

Paul said unbelievers are those that disobeyed God's commands and they died in the wilderness because of unbelief, 1 Cor. 10.
Then he tells he speaks these things for our own admonition that we do no fall into disobedience/unbelief, and if we THINK we stand take heed to his warning lest he fall from the faith...., is that what you mean by unbelief?

I think you should search the word yourself and see what IT MEANS.... that is what I do, anyway.

 

[FranC]

I have come to the conclusion that a few people are no longer worth the response...they are not open to anything but what is hammered on their own anvil and at the expense of context, verbiage, verb tense and common sense will argue a false moot point into the ground and then before Jesus himself right before they get cast into the pit.........

Are you sending me to hell again?
Take off those sunglasses and tell me that to my face.

 

[mailmandan]

What???????????

Faith without works is DEAD.

How come there's so much misundersanding here?

"Faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead UNTIL it produces works. That would be like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit. It takes a living faith to produce works, just as it takes a living tree to produce fruit.

If someone says or claims (key word in James 2:14) to have faith yet they fail to produce any works at all (given the time and opportunity to produces these works - James 2:15-16), then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith, dead faith and not genuine faith. Simple!

 

[dcontroversal]

Are you sending me to hell again?
Take off those sunglasses and tell me that to my face.

I don't recall naming you.......and do I still respond to you?