Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
4903. τελέω teleō = verb

To complete, finish, perform.

It is often translated “to pay debts.”
A final use of the word in classical Greek is “to complete” in the sense of bringing to an end. Aristotle used the word to denote the bringing to an end the years of a person’s life (Liddell-Scott). Josephus used teleō meaning to “fulfill” a promise and also to pay a tribute to masters (Bauer ).

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Sigma-Omega.

3. Finally the verb means "to pay what one owes" (→ 57, 34 ff.), "to make obligatory offerings" to the temple chest (Mt. 17:24) or the state (Rom. 13:6, → 29, 8 f.).

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament - Theological Dictionary of the New Testament – Volume VIII.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
On the cross Jesus utters the powerful words “It is finished”[SUP][SUP]1[/SUP][/SUP]; words that ring throughout history as the sign that man's sin is forever defeated and the power of death broken. However, much of the significance of this statement is actually lost when the Greek is translated into English. When Jesus cries out “it is finished” on the cross, the Greek word used is “tetelestai” which means to bring to a close, to complete, to fulfill.[SUP][SUP]2[/SUP][/SUP]
What makes this exclamation truly unique however, is the Greek tense that Jesus used. (Verb tenses are the most important and most communicative part of the Greek language.[SUP][SUP]3[/SUP][/SUP] This also is sometimes necessarily lost in translation.) Jesus speaks in the perfect tense, which is very rare in the New Testament and has no English equivalent.[SUP][SUP]4[/SUP][/SUP] The perfect tense is a combination of two Greek tenses: the Present tense, and the Aorist tense. The Aorist tense is punctiliar: meaning something that happens at a specific point in time; a moment. The Present tense is linear: meaning something that continues on into the future and has ongoing results/implications.
The combination of these two tenses in the perfect tense as used in John 19:30 is of overwhelming significance to the Christian. When Jesus says “It is finished” (or completed) what he is actually saying is “It is finished and will continue to be finished”.


The first element of the perfect tense: the Aorist, punctiliar, point in time statement “It is finished” is powerful. Mathew Henry captures all that is finished at that exact moment: “It is finished; that is, the counsels of the Father concerning his sufferings were now fulfilled. It is finished; all the types and prophecies of the Old Testament, which pointed at the sufferings of the Messiah, were accomplished. It is finished; the ceremonial law is abolished; the substance is now come, and all the shadows are done away. It is finished; an end is made of transgression by bringing in an everlasting righteousness. His sufferings were now finished, both those of his soul, and those of his body. It is finished; the work of man's redemption and salvation is now completed.” This is overwhelming in and of itself.


But there's more! The Aorist tense is only half of the perfect tense! The second element of Jesus' statement is the equally important: the Present, ongoing, linear “and will continue to be finished” component of the perfect tense. This indicates the ongoing nature of our salvation. This is so important because it indicates a condition, a state of being, a resting place.


In conclusion, in Jesus' statement “It is finished” we have a declaration of salvation that is both momentary and eternal, Aorist and Present, linear and punctiliar. We are saved at a specific point in time, “it is finished”, our debt is paid, we are ransomed from the kingdom of darkness, and then we confidently rest in the reality that “it will continue to be finished” because we are in a position of grace and stand justified for all time before God. One Greek word, tetelestai, spoken in the perfect tense, by Jesus on the cross, and it was finished at that moment, and for all time.


1 John 19:30

2 “1) to bring to a close, to finish, to end 1a) passed, finished 2) to perform, execute, complete, fulfill, (so that the thing done corresponds to what has been said, the order, command etc.) 2a) with special reference to the subject matter, to carry out the contents of a command 2b) with reference also to the form, to do just as commanded, and generally involving the notion of time, to perform the last act which completes a process, to accomplish, fulfill 3) to pay 3a) of tribute” Strong's Bible Encyclopedia

3"No element of Greek language is of more importance to the student of the New Testament than the matter of tense (link is external). A variation in meaning exhibited by the use of a particular tense will often dissolve what appears to be an embarrassing difficulty, or reveal a gleam of truth which will thrill the heart with delight and inspiration. Though it is an intricate and difficult subject, no phase of Greek grammar offers a fuller reward. The benefits are to be reaped only when one has invested sufficient time and diligence to obtain an insight into the idiomatic use of tense in the Greek language and an appreciation of the finer distinctions in force." (Dana & Mantey (link is external), pgs 176-7)

4 “The perfect tense has to do with the completed progress of an action and its corresponding finished results. That is, it shows a present state of affairs (from the writer’s perspective), based upon an action in past time (when using the indicative mood). There is no tense in English that has this same meaning. Oftentimes the student of English will fail to realize the importance of the perfect tense and will tend to blend it with the aorist in translation. This is mainly due to English idiom and the customary practice of translating the Greek perfect as the English perfect. This can be a big mistake and can blur the point or emphasis of a New Testament passage. Since the perfect tense is used less frequently than other tenses, it is exegetically more significant. When it does occur, there is usually a definite and deliberate reason it was chosen by the writer. The emphasis may be on the culmination of the action's progress or on the resulting state of affairs brought about by the action.”
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
It is interesting in this regard that the single word that Jesus spoke (which we translate as 'It is finished') was 'tetelestai'. This certainly has the meaning of completion (which is what it primarily means in the context of John 19:30) but it can also mean 'discharge a debt' or 'paid in full'. It was common to the Jews and Romans of that time because it was the word they wrote on a debt that someone had, once it was paid. So this victory cry of Jesus would have also meant to His hearers "Paid in full!'
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
I do not believe in predestination, being justified or OSAS is not predestination.

In the Calvinist mindset OSAS is the perseverance of the saints, they believe that God chooses certain people to save because He knows they will persevere.

To be quite honest, I think that is not what Paul is saying at all, and it is nonsense that God chooses certain people and therefore they can never loose their salvation.


And do not me started on limited atonement I hate that doctrine more.:cool:
thank you for the clarification and sorry for confusing you for someone else.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Accusations will get you nowhere. You're wrong.
Try again...your the one who is wrong and devalues the work of JESUS by your religion...

[h=2]What Does Tetelestai Mean?[/h]"It is finished," which is one of Jesus' most important statements, is translated from the single Greek word tetelestai. The grammatical structure of the Greek word, perfect passive indicative, is very important.
The perfect tense indicates that the progress of an action has been completed and the result of that action is ongoing and with full effect. The passive voice indicates that the subject of the sentence is being acted upon, and the indicative mood indicates a statement of fact or an actual occurrence from the writer's or speaker's perspective.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
[h=2]Jesus Declared His Work Finished![/h]Having identified the "it" (the work God the Father had given God the Son to accomplish on earth), let's take a look at what Jesus meant when he cried out that He had finished the work.
As I mentioned early in this article, having an understanding of the structure of the sentence in the Greek text is very helpful toward grasping the full weight of Christ's forever-memorable words.
What Jesus did through His perfect earthly existence, sacrificial death, and glorious resurrection fully completed the work the Father had given Him to do. Not only did He complete His salvific work, but His accomplishment is fully efficacious, today and will be forevermore. There is nothing more to add--nothing more to be done by God, man, or religious institutions. The undeniable, factual, historic, and eternal work of Jesus Christ has been completed--is complete--and will forever remain completed. "IT...IS...FINISHED!"
"It is finished!" Jesus finished the work given to Him by His Father, which culminated at the cross. At the cross, the gavel of the Supreme Judge of the Universe crashed upon His mighty bench when God the Father, pleased to crush His Son, poured the full cup of His wrath against sin upon His innocent Son.
"It is finished!" At the cross, the Great Exchange took place (2 Corinthians 5:21; Colossians 2:13-15). The eternal debt owed for the sin of mankind was paid in full. God the Father looked upon His perfect, precious, and priceless Son as if He had lived the filthy, detestable, sin-stained lives of fallen mankind. And, for those who repent and receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, God the Father looks upon them as if they had lived His Son's perfect, precious, and priceless life.
"It is finished!" At the cross, God kept His promise to crush Satan's head through the bruising of His Son. The power of sin and death was vanquished once and for all time.
"It is finished!" Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross forever made man's work to appease God, to please God, and to be reconciled to God, impotent and blasphemous.
The sin debt I owe to God was and is paid in full by my Lord and Savior, my Master and King, Jesus Christ, when He shed His innocent blood on the cross on my behalf! IT...IS...FINISHED!
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
4903. τελέω teleō = verb

To complete, finish, perform.

It is often translated “to pay debts.”
A final use of the word in classical Greek is “to complete” in the sense of bringing to an end. Aristotle used the word to denote the bringing to an end the years of a person’s life (Liddell-Scott). Josephus used teleō meaning to “fulfill” a promise and also to pay a tribute to masters (Bauer ).

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Sigma-Omega.

3. Finally the verb means "to pay what one owes" (→ 57, 34 ff.), "to make obligatory offerings" to the temple chest (Mt. 17:24) or the state (Rom. 13:6, → 29, 8 f.).

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament - Theological Dictionary of the New Testament – Volume VIII.
I agree with you..... imagine that!

Did you notice the phrase "paid in full" is no place to be found?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
4903. τελέω teleō = verb

To complete, finish, perform.

It is often translated “to pay debts.”
A final use of the word in classical Greek is “to complete” in the sense of bringing to an end. Aristotle used the word to denote the bringing to an end the years of a person’s life (Liddell-Scott). Josephus used teleō meaning to “fulfill” a promise and also to pay a tribute to masters (Bauer ).

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Sigma-Omega.

3. Finally the verb means "to pay what one owes" (→ 57, 34 ff.), "to make obligatory offerings" to the temple chest (Mt. 17:24) or the state (Rom. 13:6, → 29, 8 f.).

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament - Theological Dictionary of the New Testament – Volume VIII.
AMEN.....the only people who deny the fact are the workers for who believe they can lose salvation....end of story....the use of the word and the verb tense associated with it proves their error......they devalue the work of Christ and in so doing slap Jesus in the face with his own blood and sacrifice....satanic to the core
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
Amen Dcon!

The perfect tense is also used in Eph. 2:8 - By grace "you have been saved" through faith.


Here is a post about Ephesians 2:8-9 that has spoken to me of the completed work of Christ for us.

Quote:

Eph 2:8~~
New American Standard Bible

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

The Believer's Study Bible writes that...

The full sense of the expression “you have been saved” is difficult to capture in English.

The Greek perfect tense emphasizes action initiated in the past, the effects of which continue into the present and beyond. Therefore, salvation has a moment of initiation in the past, but the results of that primary experience continue (Ed: See
Three Tenses of Salvation).

This is another evidence of the permanence of our salvation, a doctrine which is called the “eternal security of the believer.”
(Criswell, W A. Believer's Study Bible: New King James Version. 1991. Thomas Nelson)


Commenting on the significance of the tense of the two verbs "been" (present tense) and "saved" (perfect tense) Kenneth Wuest writes...

Not content with the details offered by the perfect tense, Paul uses a periphrastic construction.

(Ed note: a periphrasis is the use of a longer phrasing in place of a possible shorter form of expression = a roundabout way of expressing something.

In Greek it specifically means the use of a verb in any tense but aorist in combination with the verb eimi = to be as the auxiliary verb) consisting of the participle in the perfect tense and the verb of being in the present tense.

The perfect tense speaks of the existence of finished results in present time, whereas Paul wanted to express persistence of finished results through present time. So he borrows the durative aspect of the present tense verb to give persistence to the existing results.

The Expanded Translation reads:
By the grace have you been saved completely with the result that you are in a state of salvation which persists through present time.

Present time in this instance is always the time at which the reader reads his statement. The security of the believer could not have been expressed in stronger terms.


(
Wuest, Kenneth - The Practical Use of the Greek New Testament - Part II: The Eloquence of Greek Tenses and Moods - Bibliotheca Sacra: A quarterly published by Dallas Theological Seminary. Volume 117. Issue 466. Page 142) (Theological Journal Subscription info) (List of 22 journals - 500 yrs of articles searchable by topic or verse! Incredible Online Resource!)



Here is the link from a former member's post.

Verse for "once saved always saved"?
 
Last edited:
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Have you proven it is wrong?

Really??? "Big Daddy" how condescending towards God, who He Himself said to pray ..."Our Father....



This coming from the one who said EG post was amazing and it's wrong??

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of what?
When people think of God as big Daddy who loves us all sooo much and forget He's King too, really go sideways
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
AMEN.....the only people who deny the fact are the workers for who believe they can lose salvation....end of story....the use of the word and the verb tense associated with it proves their error......they devalue the work of Christ and in so doing slap Jesus in the face with his own blood and sacrifice....satanic to the core
You come on here with malice & lies, calling us satanic..... you've been reported.
 
Z
I noticed right away the sources that say that are word for word.. found it nowhere else.
I agree with you..... imagine that!

Did you notice the phrase "paid in full" is no place to be found?
 
Z
Ive yet to be corrected by Him for saying it.. relationship..

Salvation is given up by many.. totally possible.. has absolutely nothing to do with a failure on Jesus part.. Rather some just choose to not fear Him.. They keep the sin nature alive and well and go to hell because sin doesn't get into heaven.. All through the NT
Have you proven it is wrong?

Really??? "Big Daddy" how condescending towards God, who He Himself said to pray ..."Our Father....
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
Have you proven it is wrong?

Really??? "Big Daddy" how condescending towards God, who He Himself said to pray ..."Our Father....
I agree....the spirit in us cries out "Abba Father".- which means Daddy.



We are no more called "slaves" - we are sons that serve in the family business.

( we can make ourselves bond-slaves as Paul did - but we need to have a full understanding of what that really means because in that - we still function as a son/daughter )

Romans 8:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

[SUP]16 [/SUP] The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
Sure it is...implied by the verb tense and the other verses that testify to his finished work....
4903. τελέω teleō = verb

To complete, finish, perform.

It is often translated “to pay debts.”
A final use of the word in classical Greek is “to complete” in the sense of bringing to an end. Aristotle used the word to denote the bringing to an end the years of a person’s life (Liddell-Scott). Josephus used teleō meaning to “fulfill” a promise and also to pay a tribute to masters (Bauer ).

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Sigma-Omega.

3. Finally the verb means "to pay what one owes" (→ 57, 34 ff.), "to make obligatory offerings" to the temple chest (Mt. 17:24) or the state (Rom. 13:6, → 29, 8 f.).

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament - Theological Dictionary of the New Testament – Volume VIII.
See that? "Paid in full" is only in your mind.

How could you possibly twist that post to say that?
 
Last edited:
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
See that? "Paid in full" is only in your mind.

How could you possibly twist that post to say that?
Believe what you will pal.....!

It is interesting in this regard that the single word that Jesus spoke (which we translate as 'It is finished') was 'tetelestai'. This certainly has the meaning of completion (which is what it primarily means in the context of John 19:30) but it can also mean 'discharge a debt' or 'paid in full'. It was common to the Jews and Romans of that time because it was the word they wrote on a debt that someone had, once it was paid. So this victory cry of Jesus would have also meant to His hearers "Paid in full!'