Not By Works
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Task masters don't care.. A parent does.. I'm no task master when I require something of my son that is for his benefit.. Simple truth that's missing in your views here
It is hard to understand how people can be against the love of God and only want to see a task master.
As they say... it is what it is....
As they say... it is what it is....
Actually, it means they WILL go to Hell
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
New Living Translation
Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed--the one who brings destruction.
English Standard Version
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Berean Literal Bible
No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed--the son of destruction,
New American Standard Bible
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Strong's Concordance
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: defection, apostasy
Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 868: aphistēmi
ἀφίστημι: 1 aorist ἀπέστησα; 2 aorist ἀπέστην; middle, present ἀφισταμαι, imperative ἀφίστασο (1 Timothy 6:5Rec.; cf. Winer's Grammar, § 14, 1 e.); (imperfect ἀφισταμην); future ἀποστήσομαι;1. transitively, in present, imperfect, future, 1 aorist active, to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove; tropically, to excite to revolt: Acts 5:37 (ἀπέστησε λαόν ... ὀπίσω αὐτοῦ drew away after him; τινα ἀπό τίνος, Deuteronomy 7:4, and in Greek writings from Herodotus 1, 76 down).
2. intransitively, in perfect, pluperfect, 2 aorist active, to stand off, stand aloof, in various senses (as in Greek writings) according to the context: ἀπό with the genitive of person to go away, depart, from anyone, Luke 13:27 (from Psalm 6:9; cf. Matthew 7:23 ἀποχωρεῖτε ἀπ' ἐμοῦ); Acts 12:10; Acts 19:9; to desert, withdraw from, one, Acts 15:38; to cease to vex one, Luke 4:13; Acts 5:38; Acts 22:29; 2 Corinthians 12:8;to fall away, become faithless, ἀπό Θεοῦ, Hebrews 3:12; to shun, flee from, ἀπό τῆς ἀδικίας, 2 Timothy 2:19. Middle, to withdraw oneself from: absolutely, to fall away, Luke 8:13; (τῆς πίστεως, 1 Timothy 4:1, cf. Winers Grammar, 427, 428 (398)); to keep oneself away from, absent oneself from, Luke 2:37 (οὐκ ἀφίστατο ἀπό (T Tr WH omit ἀπό) τοῦ ἱεροῦ, she was in the temple every day); from anyone's society or fellowship, 1 Timothy 6:5 Rec.
2 Thessalonians 2:3
New International Version
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
New Living Translation
Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed--the one who brings destruction.
English Standard Version
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Berean Literal Bible
No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed--the son of destruction,
New American Standard Bible
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Strong's Concordance
apostasia: defection, revolt
Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡPart of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: defection, apostasy
Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.
1 Timothy 4:1
New American Standard Bible
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 868: aphistēmi
ἀφίστημι: 1 aorist ἀπέστησα; 2 aorist ἀπέστην; middle, present ἀφισταμαι, imperative ἀφίστασο (1 Timothy 6:5Rec.; cf. Winer's Grammar, § 14, 1 e.); (imperfect ἀφισταμην); future ἀποστήσομαι;1. transitively, in present, imperfect, future, 1 aorist active, to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove; tropically, to excite to revolt: Acts 5:37 (ἀπέστησε λαόν ... ὀπίσω αὐτοῦ drew away after him; τινα ἀπό τίνος, Deuteronomy 7:4, and in Greek writings from Herodotus 1, 76 down).
2. intransitively, in perfect, pluperfect, 2 aorist active, to stand off, stand aloof, in various senses (as in Greek writings) according to the context: ἀπό with the genitive of person to go away, depart, from anyone, Luke 13:27 (from Psalm 6:9; cf. Matthew 7:23 ἀποχωρεῖτε ἀπ' ἐμοῦ); Acts 12:10; Acts 19:9; to desert, withdraw from, one, Acts 15:38; to cease to vex one, Luke 4:13; Acts 5:38; Acts 22:29; 2 Corinthians 12:8;to fall away, become faithless, ἀπό Θεοῦ, Hebrews 3:12; to shun, flee from, ἀπό τῆς ἀδικίας, 2 Timothy 2:19. Middle, to withdraw oneself from: absolutely, to fall away, Luke 8:13; (τῆς πίστεως, 1 Timothy 4:1, cf. Winers Grammar, 427, 428 (398)); to keep oneself away from, absent oneself from, Luke 2:37 (οὐκ ἀφίστατο ἀπό (T Tr WH omit ἀπό) τοῦ ἱεροῦ, she was in the temple every day); from anyone's society or fellowship, 1 Timothy 6:5 Rec.
Yes, that is true in the flesh. That is what still gets us in bondage to sin, but free-will in Christ means we are a bondservant to righteousness, and living in accordance to Him being Lord, and not just a Savior. And as we live according to Spiritual Truth we are set free indeed! This is not an unruly freedom, it is a purposeful freedom that has weight beauty and purpose that defies my asking for. It is the abundant life by the measure of My Lord, and not man. My free-will is me experiencing absolute realness in His incomparableness. Free-will, He insists, must be used in our mindfulness by His followers in accordance to the Spirit's leading intuitively.
You only mocked human nature, not godly vibrant free-will in us whom are in Christ Jesus by your comments.
You only mocked human nature, not godly vibrant free-will in us whom are in Christ Jesus by your comments.
Would you as a loving parent throw your child whom you love and already took the judgment for his sins with your own life - would you throw him into hell and then into the lake of fire for all eternity separated from you because he didn't do some of your 'good works" you wanted him to do "for his own good"?
We have defined "apostasy" from our own understanding of that term. It simply means in the Greek "to depart" or "to separate from."
So, we have heard sermons from our church upbringing where "apostasy" was used and put in some scriptures here and there and we come up with a doctrine. Now the "meaning" of apostasy has taken on a whole life within itself.
It is used 16 times in scripture and all the meanings are the same
"To separate or to depart" "stand separate from" - "withdraw from".
Here is an example of it being used.
1 Timothy 6:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
The truth is all of us in some form are standing apart from some things that Christ has done for us. We can know that we have the peace of Christ but we withdraw or depart from believing in that because our mind cannot get around the natural circumstances.
The famous scripture that is used from those believe we lose salvation is 1 Tim. 4:1 - but let's look and see what it is really saying "in context".
They usually love to just quote the part about seducing spirits and doctrines of devils ( which they usually apply to something they don't believe in but some one else might ).
Let's see what Paul was actually saying "departing from the faith actually is".
1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai - this is the word - apostasy ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.
verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....
This not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.
This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort when we are to believe on Christ's work on the cross and resurrection for all things.
It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.
.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So we see that the word "apostasy" is not what some try to make it into.
There are many warnings in scripture about living your own ways and thoughts contrary to God such as depending on the flesh for life instead of walking by the spirit and they should be heeded if you want His life to be manifested in us.
Let's build believers up in Christ and feed them the proper nutrients of proclaiming the love and grace of our Lord for them and these will give them the proper foundation in Christ.
Then the warnings will be applied in context of Christ's finished work on the cross and not on a works-based, fear-based belief system which only nullifies the very grace of God needed for us to live in this earth.
So, we have heard sermons from our church upbringing where "apostasy" was used and put in some scriptures here and there and we come up with a doctrine. Now the "meaning" of apostasy has taken on a whole life within itself.
It is used 16 times in scripture and all the meanings are the same
"To separate or to depart" "stand separate from" - "withdraw from".
Here is an example of it being used.
1 Timothy 6:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
The truth is all of us in some form are standing apart from some things that Christ has done for us. We can know that we have the peace of Christ but we withdraw or depart from believing in that because our mind cannot get around the natural circumstances.
The famous scripture that is used from those believe we lose salvation is 1 Tim. 4:1 - but let's look and see what it is really saying "in context".
They usually love to just quote the part about seducing spirits and doctrines of devils ( which they usually apply to something they don't believe in but some one else might ).
Let's see what Paul was actually saying "departing from the faith actually is".
1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai - this is the word - apostasy ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.
verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....
This not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.
This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort when we are to believe on Christ's work on the cross and resurrection for all things.
It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.
.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So we see that the word "apostasy" is not what some try to make it into.
There are many warnings in scripture about living your own ways and thoughts contrary to God such as depending on the flesh for life instead of walking by the spirit and they should be heeded if you want His life to be manifested in us.
Let's build believers up in Christ and feed them the proper nutrients of proclaiming the love and grace of our Lord for them and these will give them the proper foundation in Christ.
Then the warnings will be applied in context of Christ's finished work on the cross and not on a works-based, fear-based belief system which only nullifies the very grace of God needed for us to live in this earth.
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Amen Brother,
and .......
Glory be to God through Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 4:10,11
As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God’s varied grace: 11whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God; whoever serves, as one who serves by the strength that God supplies—in order that in everything God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. To him belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
and .......
Glory be to God through Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 4:10,11
As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God’s varied grace: 11whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God; whoever serves, as one who serves by the strength that God supplies—in order that in everything God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. To him belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
I just asked you a straight forward question...I didn't say you would do that to your son....
The reality is - we are saying the exact same thing of our loving Father. Some works-based salvationists do believe that God sends His beloved children that Jesus died for into hell.
Post # 16065 shows this to be true.
Perhaps you don't believe it - but that is the final outcome if the Holy Spirit leaves us - like some false doctrines try to tell believers in Christ - even though Jesus said "The Holy spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16
The reality is - we are saying the exact same thing of our loving Father. Some works-based salvationists do believe that God sends His beloved children that Jesus died for into hell.
Post # 16065 shows this to be true.
Perhaps you don't believe it - but that is the final outcome if the Holy Spirit leaves us - like some false doctrines try to tell believers in Christ - even though Jesus said "The Holy spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16
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John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” Andbowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
in the Greek, Tetelestai, was a legal term, those who had paid their debt in full, carried a card with them affixed to the card was the crime, and stamped on it was the word tetelestai, it means the debt to society was "paid in full" and they could never be tried for the same crime again,
[FONT="]
EG, where DID you get that crock of nonsense? What site?
[FONT="]EG, I know you're still in here, I checked.
I need an answer.[/FONT]
E
Thats is why I have him on ignore, he is a big advocate of using lexicons and commentaries, but when other people use them it is must be wrong
multon and Milligan is a very reputable book, hey took manuscripts found in every day Greek secular places, and translated them, that's how they came up with their meaning, how did they us words in it in every day use outside the Bible?
but it it does not fit his belief, so must be in error.