Not By Works
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It is hard to understand how people can be against the love of God and only want to see a task master.
As they say... it is what it is....
As they say... it is what it is....
but just let you be, that is love, and actually learning to follow Christ is having a task master.
Is this what you mean, because this is miss-understanding what evil is, and what righteousness
is, and how Christ moves in us is a fundamental reality of the Kingdom.
I get the picture people identify so deeply with their flaws and failings they believe they cannot
be resolved. Now we are talking real sinful behaviour not things that are just the way we express
ourselves and our own self criticism.
Denying oneself and serving others is not something of effort?
Let us hear Jesus
Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me."
Luke 9:23
Now if you mean this is the joy of service, the privilege of following the King, then
amen, but I am not sure this is what you meant.
Let us hear Jesus
Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me."
Luke 9:23
Now if you mean this is the joy of service, the privilege of following the King, then
amen, but I am not sure this is what you meant.
Let us get a perspective on life.
We are redeemed only because we have fellowship with God. It is this communion that
gives us life and this alone.
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15:6
To leave Christ is to die.
To not be in Christ is to sow to the flesh alone.
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 8:13
Now if you do not believe scripture or what spiritual reality is, that is your choice,
but it is obvious, there is no reason to leave Christ other than you want death and
destruction.
We are redeemed only because we have fellowship with God. It is this communion that
gives us life and this alone.
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15:6
To leave Christ is to die.
To not be in Christ is to sow to the flesh alone.
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 8:13
Now if you do not believe scripture or what spiritual reality is, that is your choice,
but it is obvious, there is no reason to leave Christ other than you want death and
destruction.
Hi Peter,
A Christian can fall from faith and still be saved...
I'm dizzy right now.
So, I'd ask this:
What is the difference between a saved person and an unsaved person???
This would mean we're all saved.
If faith is necessary to be saved, and one loses faith, and some here say that person would still be saved...
THEN WHY AREN'T PERSONS WHO NEVER HAD FAITH TO BEGIN WITH NOT SAVED??
I'd like to hear them explain the difference.
There's too much confusion here.
Said the beggar to the thief...
A Christian can fall from faith and still be saved...
I'm dizzy right now.
So, I'd ask this:
What is the difference between a saved person and an unsaved person???
This would mean we're all saved.
If faith is necessary to be saved, and one loses faith, and some here say that person would still be saved...
THEN WHY AREN'T PERSONS WHO NEVER HAD FAITH TO BEGIN WITH NOT SAVED??
I'd like to hear them explain the difference.
There's too much confusion here.
Said the beggar to the thief...
E
dude you are new here, You do not know me at all. So I would suggest that before you start tearing people down you get to know them.
I get in front of people who have attitudes, You came in here showing all kind of attitudes, I am sick of people in the name of christ trying to tell people what to believe. and cutting them down when they do not Agree, Like you have done since I have seen you.
You keep saying I have not heard you, Yet funny how you do not explain where I was wrong.
Should I go back and repost all the times you posted stuff tearing people down?
Once again, You claimed if abraham did not do the work of offering his son, He would have lost his salvation.
I already proved to you Abraham already showed works, Hebrews mentions it Yet according to you this was not enough work. (he already fulfilled the James 2 requirement whether you think works are required or not)
That is a works based gospel. If you do not think so, thats fine, We could let this go. But no, You have to tear me down because I disagreed with you.
People are going to disagree with you, If you show an attitude to them for disagreeing, Then you will get it back.
I get in front of people who have attitudes, You came in here showing all kind of attitudes, I am sick of people in the name of christ trying to tell people what to believe. and cutting them down when they do not Agree, Like you have done since I have seen you.
You keep saying I have not heard you, Yet funny how you do not explain where I was wrong.
Should I go back and repost all the times you posted stuff tearing people down?
Once again, You claimed if abraham did not do the work of offering his son, He would have lost his salvation.
I already proved to you Abraham already showed works, Hebrews mentions it Yet according to you this was not enough work. (he already fulfilled the James 2 requirement whether you think works are required or not)
That is a works based gospel. If you do not think so, thats fine, We could let this go. But no, You have to tear me down because I disagreed with you.
People are going to disagree with you, If you show an attitude to them for disagreeing, Then you will get it back.
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Life perspectives
We will all die. Something will kill us. We can maybe choose our death, but mostly not.
So whatever choices we make, it will not save us.
Jesus offers us life, not just life with Him but life with others, who love and care.
Now some crazy nutcase might appear and want to destroy this effort, make individuals
compromise, but eternity just carries on its work.
Once you see righteousness and love, its eternal nature from the Father, through the son
there is no other way.
Those who want to save those who walk away, are just excusing darkness over light.
The light will never be extinguished, and those who understand it want just to know it more
and walk deeper.
We will all die. Something will kill us. We can maybe choose our death, but mostly not.
So whatever choices we make, it will not save us.
Jesus offers us life, not just life with Him but life with others, who love and care.
Now some crazy nutcase might appear and want to destroy this effort, make individuals
compromise, but eternity just carries on its work.
Once you see righteousness and love, its eternal nature from the Father, through the son
there is no other way.
Those who want to save those who walk away, are just excusing darkness over light.
The light will never be extinguished, and those who understand it want just to know it more
and walk deeper.
E
I did own it my friend, I stand by what I said..
It could be used as a legal term meaning "paid in full" they actually have documents which show where people in prison had the document, which they could show to prove they had paid their debt to society.
if people disagree that is their right, It does not mean I have to change my mind, they are free to believe what they want.
It could be used as a legal term meaning "paid in full" they actually have documents which show where people in prison had the document, which they could show to prove they had paid their debt to society.
if people disagree that is their right, It does not mean I have to change my mind, they are free to believe what they want.
Redeemed as in redeemed again redeemed and again redeemed...crucifying Christ over and over every time he throws us into the cleanising fire like a firbrand of the word of God?
How many times must a person be redeemed?
We are redeemed (once)only because we have fellowship with God.... because only the redeemed have fellowship. If we are not redeemed as the better thing that accompanies salvation then we are like those in Hebrews 6 that offer dead works coming from a dead faith.(no faith)
If any man has not the Spirit of Christ, in respect to the faith of Christ then they do not belong to Him. There is not one thing you could perform to make yourself born again(redeemption) or something you could to maintain eternal life.
It is this communion that gives us His Spirit life and this alone. No man will be found with a spirit life of their own.
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Heb 6:1
That parable does no apply to those who have not the Spirit of Christ....but rather the firery trial of faith for the believer
Unbelievers were never in Christ. The word is you speaking to the believers as a warning. Not them that went out from us because they were never of us. They would not be called branches.
There are no verses that say a person can loose the good work Christ performs in us .If he has begun it he will finish it.
If a believer sins by not remaining and falls from the grace of Christ by denying Him; because Christ has paid the full eternal (not five mimutes and you are on your own )wage of sin and not a kick start placing man were Adam and Eve before one transgression. He gave His life in jeopardy of his own Spirit life in our place, for sins.. past and sins we will commit.
He cannot (impossible) deny himself.
Again....If any man has not the Spirit of Christ they do nor belong to Him.
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.2Ti 2:13
Those who were as a firebrand throne into the fire of his loving rebuke and yet do not return to the source of Grave ,the work of Christ .they have their reward of self righteousness and show it by not returning .Crucifying Christ over and over to public shame as if on demonstration was not enough.
Amo 4:11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.
How many times must a person be redeemed?
We are redeemed (once)only because we have fellowship with God.... because only the redeemed have fellowship. If we are not redeemed as the better thing that accompanies salvation then we are like those in Hebrews 6 that offer dead works coming from a dead faith.(no faith)
If any man has not the Spirit of Christ, in respect to the faith of Christ then they do not belong to Him. There is not one thing you could perform to make yourself born again(redeemption) or something you could to maintain eternal life.
It is this communion that gives us His Spirit life and this alone. No man will be found with a spirit life of their own.
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Heb 6:1
That parable does no apply to those who have not the Spirit of Christ....but rather the firery trial of faith for the believer
Unbelievers were never in Christ. The word is you speaking to the believers as a warning. Not them that went out from us because they were never of us. They would not be called branches.
There are no verses that say a person can loose the good work Christ performs in us .If he has begun it he will finish it.
If a believer sins by not remaining and falls from the grace of Christ by denying Him; because Christ has paid the full eternal (not five mimutes and you are on your own )wage of sin and not a kick start placing man were Adam and Eve before one transgression. He gave His life in jeopardy of his own Spirit life in our place, for sins.. past and sins we will commit.
He cannot (impossible) deny himself.
Again....If any man has not the Spirit of Christ they do nor belong to Him.
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.2Ti 2:13
Those who were as a firebrand throne into the fire of his loving rebuke and yet do not return to the source of Grave ,the work of Christ .they have their reward of self righteousness and show it by not returning .Crucifying Christ over and over to public shame as if on demonstration was not enough.
Amo 4:11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.
Paul told the Corinthians that they were the righteousness of God in Christ and he said that to them even though they were being carnal and acting like "mere men".
Christ being our righteousness may conflict with our religious views but that's the way life is in Christ. The gospel of the grace of Christ will always be offensive to the self-righteous mindset that try to maintain and obtain righteousness by what "they do".
Until we really get a revelation of what Christ has done for us and that He is our righteousness - we will be making up man-made doctrines of D/I/Y. self-righteousness/holiness in order to maintain and obtain our own righteousness.
There are fruits of righteousness but these are from the righteousness we have in Christ. Paul himself says to awake to righteousness and sin not.
1 Cor. 15:34 Awake to who you are in Christ - a new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph. 4:24
Here is what Paul told those Corinthians that were carnal. He still told them who they really were in Christ. - righteous and holy....saints.
Then he corrects their behavior but he didn't say "you are all unsaved now" and going to hell and your loving Father will throw you into the lake of fire - as a works-based salvationists would have us to believe and thus this message of Christ's finished work for us is offensive to them.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
The true gospel of the grace of Christ transforms people from the inside out. The false one is trying to get people to produce fruit by our behavior or good works. True good works and godly behavior is a manifestation of the life of Christ in us.
Real change done by the Holy Spirit within us is in the new heart being manifested - love, joy, peace..etc. These are ours even in the midst of circumstances that are screaming at us.
The true grace of the gospel of Christ teaches us how to live godly in this present world. We can trust the Holy Spirit within us to release His fruit in us so that others can see Christ in us.
The true Christian life is by grace through faith in Christ's work alone from start to finish. In this true reverence for our Father and Lord is manifested.
It is going to be a terrible thing to stand in the presence of our God based on our own self-righteousness and good works for those that Christ is not in them - knowing this terror of the Lord we persuade men to believe and trust in Christ. He loves them dearly and He will never forsake nor leave them. Never.
John 6:37-39 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
Christ being our righteousness may conflict with our religious views but that's the way life is in Christ. The gospel of the grace of Christ will always be offensive to the self-righteous mindset that try to maintain and obtain righteousness by what "they do".
Until we really get a revelation of what Christ has done for us and that He is our righteousness - we will be making up man-made doctrines of D/I/Y. self-righteousness/holiness in order to maintain and obtain our own righteousness.
There are fruits of righteousness but these are from the righteousness we have in Christ. Paul himself says to awake to righteousness and sin not.
1 Cor. 15:34 Awake to who you are in Christ - a new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph. 4:24
Here is what Paul told those Corinthians that were carnal. He still told them who they really were in Christ. - righteous and holy....saints.
Then he corrects their behavior but he didn't say "you are all unsaved now" and going to hell and your loving Father will throw you into the lake of fire - as a works-based salvationists would have us to believe and thus this message of Christ's finished work for us is offensive to them.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
The true gospel of the grace of Christ transforms people from the inside out. The false one is trying to get people to produce fruit by our behavior or good works. True good works and godly behavior is a manifestation of the life of Christ in us.
Real change done by the Holy Spirit within us is in the new heart being manifested - love, joy, peace..etc. These are ours even in the midst of circumstances that are screaming at us.
The true grace of the gospel of Christ teaches us how to live godly in this present world. We can trust the Holy Spirit within us to release His fruit in us so that others can see Christ in us.
The true Christian life is by grace through faith in Christ's work alone from start to finish. In this true reverence for our Father and Lord is manifested.
It is going to be a terrible thing to stand in the presence of our God based on our own self-righteousness and good works for those that Christ is not in them - knowing this terror of the Lord we persuade men to believe and trust in Christ. He loves them dearly and He will never forsake nor leave them. Never.
John 6:37-39 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
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I was trying to think and feel my way through the post above.
It is like a boxer trading blows. It is language I try not to use because it is a style
that seems so confrontational and communicates aggression and rejection without
resolution or peace. So I was thinking of counting the blows, 17.
Now this approach is fine, because it is the MO. But with all MO's once you know
their technique it looses its power, because it is all front with nothing behind it, lol
It is like a boxer trading blows. It is language I try not to use because it is a style
that seems so confrontational and communicates aggression and rejection without
resolution or peace. So I was thinking of counting the blows, 17.
Now this approach is fine, because it is the MO. But with all MO's once you know
their technique it looses its power, because it is all front with nothing behind it, lol
I was trying to think and feel my way through the post above.
It is like a boxer trading blows. It is language I try not to use because it is a style
that seems so confrontational and communicates aggression and rejection without
resolution or peace. So I was thinking of counting the blows, 17.
Now this approach is fine, because it is the MO. But with all MO's once you know
their technique it looses its power, because it is all front with nothing behind it, lol
It is like a boxer trading blows. It is language I try not to use because it is a style
that seems so confrontational and communicates aggression and rejection without
resolution or peace. So I was thinking of counting the blows, 17.
Now this approach is fine, because it is the MO. But with all MO's once you know
their technique it looses its power, because it is all front with nothing behind it, lol
We should try to make them feel welcome.
I think he was just giving his opinion and was not confrontational in any way.
It's not even an opinion, it sounds very sound and doctrinal to me...
I'm sorry if he Leaves the discussion because he seems like a serious person and we don't have
enough of that here...
lol.
Bully boy bullying someone with blows, claiming their anger justifies them bullying someone
else.
Darkness and light. Jesus said this
In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Matt 5:16
Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.
Phil 4:5
Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
col 3:12
I would have not believed we are sharing about the Lord of love, and searching to
understand His gospel and His truth.
Christ died as an example, that we might serve one another and meet each others
needs.
Now kindly taking scripture and asking people to read it and comment on it is not forcing
belief or telling others what to believe, but actually listening to God and offering up ones
revelation in the Lord.
I really appreciate all the contributions here, and all the honest attempts to do whatever
people do, because none of this is forced, it is completely what people choose to bring
and share. And God will use it all to His purposes to train His people for the work.
Amen.
Bully boy bullying someone with blows, claiming their anger justifies them bullying someone
else.
Darkness and light. Jesus said this
In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Matt 5:16
Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.
Phil 4:5
Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
col 3:12
I would have not believed we are sharing about the Lord of love, and searching to
understand His gospel and His truth.
Christ died as an example, that we might serve one another and meet each others
needs.
Now kindly taking scripture and asking people to read it and comment on it is not forcing
belief or telling others what to believe, but actually listening to God and offering up ones
revelation in the Lord.
I really appreciate all the contributions here, and all the honest attempts to do whatever
people do, because none of this is forced, it is completely what people choose to bring
and share. And God will use it all to His purposes to train His people for the work.
Amen.