Not By Works

Ariel82 · Jun 30, 2017

Some people use the law as a club to beat others with. However if we understand why God gave the law and how it keeps order in the world, it's empowering.

Satan will use the law to try and enslave people. However God gives us the tools through the Bible to fight back as Jesus did by untwisting Satan's lies with God's truth.

When Satan tells us to "prove" our faith and sonship by throwing ourselves off cliffs so angels will catch us, we should respond as Jesus did "Thou shall not tempt the Lord,Thy God."

I wonder how many tempt God daily to allow their sins to destroy them?

Stephen63 · Jun 30, 2017

PHart said:

And once again you show how painfully deaf you are. You have a one track, dogmatic mind. It won't even let you hear what a person is saying. You've been proving that over and over and over again. You only know one way to listen when it comes to doctrine.....your way.

Note, I'm not saying you're deaf because you won't agree with me. You don't have to agree with me. I'm saying you literally can't even understand what is being said to you! That's not an honest discussion. That's getting bullied and beat and shamed into submission instead of actually engaging your opponent in open honest discussion. But that's what narcissists do. They don't listen and instead beat down, and they surely can never admit when they've been wrong.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PHart again.

Stephen63 · Jun 30, 2017

Meggido said:

I'm glad other people see that.

garee · Jun 30, 2017

Rather than make God the liar its what sinners do… sin .

How do we know they are sinners?

If they have flesh and blood which will not enter the kingdom of God, its easy to see the wrath of God is being revealed from heaven (bodies of death) that age in a process of decay leading to real death .not suspended animation as in reincarnation.

All saints die having not received their new incorruptible bodies.

Non Christians do not have goodly sorrow. It is according to the will of God (not seen) who turns us so that then after we are turned being turned we can repent(comfort ourselves) unbelievers are not part of that will

It’s the grace that comes with salvation that does teach us he is graceful. .A person must be born again. Godly sorrow shows one have been born again .

How many times must one be born again?

Ariel82 · Jun 30, 2017

FranC said:

No that is a miscommuncation. I said you believe others are saying that.

.I know you are against the idea of blaming God for our sins and I believe many others are also.

.However it seems you believe that Calvinist teach this through their doctrine of election and predestination?

If I find the response I will just pm it to you...I tend to get my numbers mixed up.

Ariel82 · Jun 30, 2017

FranC said:

Again I was advising EG to show you that he didn't believe God was to blame when folks sin, because I thought it might help foster actual communication.

I am sorry you misread my words to be an accusation of you.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 30, 2017

FranC said:

one must also realize the word "If" is not a set in stone word, it can be used in three ways.

"If". But it is impossible - if you had a million dollars, you could get He house you want.. even though there is n possibility of getting that million dollars. A clause which states if, but you can not.

if you had a qualification letter, you can do that job. You have the qualification letter and it is known you have it.

if you go tak your mess, you may get well (a conditional clause clause, maybe you will, maybe you will not.)

All three forms are used in the English language as well as greek

Ariel82 · Jun 30, 2017

garee said:

So are you saying sinners experience worldly sorrow, but redeemed saints of God experience godly sorrow and actual repentance?

(cus someone is gonna come and accuse you of promoting sin because of a twisting of your first line "it's what sinner do sin" will be twisted into "you are saying people can't help but sin. You are saying it's okay to sin because that is what sinners do! You want people saved in their sin and not out of it" I am sure they can make more false arrows...fyi)

Maybe you can clarify before they shoot that arrow at you?

Stephen63 · Jun 30, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

It only takes a few posts to know you.

You're accusing him of what you do every day.

He's right, you're a narcissist.

Ariel82 · Jun 30, 2017

Lol Stephen he has you on ignore, which is a blessing or we would have another fight happening.

Do you want to punch at me instead?

I can box with the best of them.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 30, 2017

Ariel82 said:

2 cor 3: 7. But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,

i guess peopldo not realise what ministey of death means

Ariel82 · Jun 30, 2017

"Was glorious" EG..,just sayin'

Zen · Jun 30, 2017

16,000+ replies in this thread. How many of them are bringing glory to God?
All I see are people trying to score ego points and diminish each other.

FranC · Jun 30, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Yes. Faith is needed for salvation.
Ephesians 2:8

When you use the term "saving faith" is makes me wonder what you mean.
Isn't all faith saving faith?
If we stick to biblical wording, we won't need to find out what the other person means.

So God is so good and His grace so abundant that He made a way for us to be saved from our fallen nature from the beginning of the world, or before the beginning...

So, If faith is needed to be saved, how is one STILL SAVED if he falls away from the faith?

Fall away from means to leave, to abandon.

fall away

1. Also, fall off. Withdraw one's friendship, support, or allegiance. For example, After the divorce, her friends slowly fell away. [Early 1500s]
2. Also, fall off. Gradually decline in size or strength, as in The breeze slowly fell away, or, as Shakespeare put it ( King Lear, 1:2): "Love cools, friendship falls off, Brothers divide." [Early 1500s]
3. Drift from an established faith, cause, or principles. For example, I fell away from the Catholic Church when I was a teenager.

Some here question if it's possible for one to fall away.
How could it be questioned when the N.T. uses those precise words?

Hebrews 6:4-6 "if the FALL AWAY"...

1 Timothy 4:1 "departing from the faith"...

Hebrews 3:12:19

James 1:12 is very interesting. it says that the Lord will promise the Crown to them that LOVE HIM.

If you notice every word having to do with faitha and salvation is Always in the present tense. Some here want to say that we believe and have faith ONE TIME that continues into the future, but this is not supported by scripture.

If we believe and have faith and love God when we die, He wll reward us. Not because we believed years before and then FELL AWAY from the faith.

If one falls away and has not more faith, how could that person still be saved?

Faith brings to salvation.
No Faith..... no salvation

(falling away is not sinning. I'm sure you see the difference)

FranC · Jun 30, 2017

Zen said:

Zen.
Leave it alone.

I see people following this thread.
They need to hear both sides.

Right now there are 57 members and 39 guests.
They can determine for themselves who is acting correctly
and who is properly stating the word of God.

garee · Jun 30, 2017

Ariel82 said:

You would have to define "whose faith" ...so that we do not blapsheme his Holy name .It s easy to turn things upside down

I would offer it’s the faith of Christ that works in us that we prove as true.It defends us. Having that faith in respect to oneself only shows someone has blasphemed (contributing the work of one to another) the Holy name by which we are called. And therefore violate the first commandment. No gods before him... to include our own self.

How many times is it necessary for one to be born again before they no longer temp God to forgive them ? If we say we have not sinned do we make Him the liar?

Either he forgives our whole sin or we will not rise to new spirit life.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 30, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Lol. I guess I am missing a lot, or should say missing nothing, (I have heard from a few he is getting bad) poor guy seems to need someone to fight with,

I asked him to put me in ignore, he did not, so I did the best thing I could do,

Stephen63 · Jun 30, 2017

Ariel82 said:

He sees them.

Ariel82 · Jun 30, 2017

Anyway, have to do some chores.

Will leave this song for my brothers and sisters. May God's light shine upon you and bless your souls. May His wisdom guide your steps and May His love and grace guide your words so that you speak life into the people around you. God bless and keep you always. Remembering our blessed savior and how He saved us when we were sinners, help us to love and give grace to others even if we don't think they deserve it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejycllx5iwA

We are all unfinished but one day we will see God gave to face and know Him as He already knows us. What a glorious day that will be.

Ariel82 · Jun 30, 2017

FranC said:

Yes. Faith is needed for salvation.
Ephesians 2:8

When you use the term "saving faith" is makes me wonder what you mean.
Isn't all faith saving faith?
If we stick to biblical wording, we won't need to find out what the other person means.

So God is so good and His grace so abundant that He made a way for us to be saved from our fallen nature from the beginning of the world, or before the beginning...

So, If faith is needed to be saved, how is one STILL SAVED if he falls away from the faith?

Fall away from means to leave, to abandon.

fall away

1. Also, fall off. Withdraw one's friendship, support, or allegiance. For example, After the divorce, her friends slowly fell away. [Early 1500s]
2. Also, fall off. Gradually decline in size or strength, as in The breeze slowly fell away, or, as Shakespeare put it ( King Lear, 1:2): "Love cools, friendship falls off, Brothers divide." [Early 1500s]
3. Drift from an established faith, cause, or principles. For example, I fell away from the Catholic Church when I was a teenager.

Some here question if it's possible for one to fall away.
How could it be questioned when the N.T. uses those precise words?

Hebrews 6:4-6 "if the FALL AWAY"...

1 Timothy 4:1 "departing from the faith"...

Hebrews 3:12:19

James 1:12 is very interesting. it says that the Lord will promise the Crown to them that LOVE HIM.

If you notice every word having to do with faitha and salvation is Always in the present tense. Some here want to say that we believe and have faith ONE TIME that continues into the future, but this is not supported by scripture.

If we believe and have faith and love God when we die, He wll reward us. Not because we believed years before and then FELL AWAY from the faith.

If one falls away and has not more faith, how could that person still be saved?

Faith brings to salvation.
No Faith..... no salvation

(falling away is not sinning. I'm sure you see the difference)

Saving faith means that you actually believe in your heart the True God and His gospel and not false gods or gospels or mental assent.

If we can agree on what saving faith is, then the rest of the conversation goes smoother.

People who worship idols had faith in the idols.that would not be a saving faith.

We can talk about what it means to fall away after we can find agreement on the concept of what a saving faith actually is.

I will try and get back online later.

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