Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
It's up to the older person to be more understanding.
I think PHart felt attacked. I felt like this too when I got here.
I would be gone too by now except for the reason that I've repeated many times.
I don't know why we can't just have a nice conversation.

You show up every now and then and act like a referee.
It would be nice if you just posted what you believe and used scripture instead
of making those comments like you do.

Anyway, it's time for me to be leaving for a while again.
Hope you don't miss me too much...
(Yeah ! I know you can't wait to get rid of me!!)

P.S. I don't mean older in age, but in seniority to the thread.

instead of always blaming me, why do you not investigate to see what really happen d, this stuff really gets old the man came in here with an attitude, you want to come in with an attitude, expect to get one back.

PHarts third post in this thread, up thill this time, he seemed pretty normal, then this occurred.

I understand your confusion. You and countless others have been indoctrinated by the church. You're seeing things in what I'm saying that I'm not saying. This is a very big knot to untie in the church today. That is why I will not go into the ministry.

If you want to hang in here with me and let me separate what you're hearing me say and what I'm actually saying I would like to do that. I will address each and every item if you want me to. But I don't want to waste the time if you are convinced that you can not be convinced otherwise.
this comment right here breads confrontation, all he had to do was leave this out, and most likely no one would have sad anything to him, but he could not let it go,

we we are confused, we are indoctrinated, well wow, three posts in and he already knows us, and already attacking us,

And here, in response to something D.C. Said, was he being honest, trying to stir up DISCUSSION? I could be wrong but I went back a few pages and am not sure I have even spoken to PHart yet, but this is what. Am reading before I speak. As you can see I already see a major issue, he is not here to discuss by these words, but push what he believ s,,

And, again, you simply can not hear what is being argued.

James says works are necessary to be saved, but you can only hear them as being necessary to earn salvation, instead of what is actually being argued that works are necessary for salvation only in that they confirm the presence of that which secures salvation all by itself--faith in Christ.

Is it breaking through yet? If you hang in here and purposely try to understand what is actually being said instead of what you think is being said you will begin to understand what James is saying. We know James is not lying--works are a necessary component of salvation.....just not the way you instantly think that has to mean. You and countless others seem incapable of being able to understand the necessity for works in salvation in a way where those works do not earn salvation itself.
again, he did not have to make that first comment, if he simply said the rest, most likely our heated discussions and his heated discussions with others may never have happened.

moving on
.


Yeah, I know. Funny isn't it.
Paragraph after paragraph of Christians defending the case for dead faith. The dead faith that James says won't save, yet is being so vehemently defended here. But I know that is where the church is at in this time of human history. We've got it in our heads that we don't have to do anything or <gasp!> we'd be guilty of trying to earn our own salvation. We got a lot of people thinking God is going to heap praise on them when they give Christ back his One Talent when he returns because God is just so loving and gracious that way! I can hear their voices already...."let me in, let me in!"
and here we go, the person has been here a few short posts, yet here he is slandering over half the room claiming they defend a dead faith, yet was it not he earlier who demanded someone misunderstood him? Yet here he is accusing, I confronted, asked for proof (which I never got, not really expected to) and it went downhill from there

all because instead of trying to discuss things

he had to attack people falsly

he had to tell them they can not hear, and everyone not like him is confused and indoctrinated

the only thing that surprises me is more people did not confront this behavior and the fact that a "side" kept defending him well that should tell you the sad state of our chat room.

I admit, I went to far a few times, my anger at him caused Megiddo to confront me, I did not handle that well

but to all the people trying to stick up for this man and say it's my fault, you should be ashamed


And and I have not even posted the arrogant stuff he posted at me, that stuff does not bother me, I love it, it just shows a persons true character.







 
Nov 22, 2015
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Never said nor implied that...I have no problem with you other than I vehemently disagree with you that salvation is maintained and or can be lost by what we do or do not do...and have even stated I like u....so....
So, if you were both eligible - would you marry her?

..I would - she would be a lot of fun to be with as I like her humor and she has a deep passion for the Lord....:(
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
I know and that has nothing to do with Judas tho.. it was an example for what you said.. Other than that, I had no reason to post... Thanks for your time to respond tho
lol sorry
im a dense person sometimes
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Never said nor implied that...I have no problem with you other than I vehemently disagree with you that salvation is maintained and or can be lost by what we do or do not do...and have even stated I like u....so....
Careful Dcon, she might go back to calling you cutie.


Lol never thought of you as a "referee". I am pretty sure everyone knows which "team" you are batting for...your stand that the salvation is "not by works" hasn't wavered once.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Careful Dcon, she might go back to calling you cutie.


Lol never thought of you as a "referee". I am pretty sure everyone knows which "team" you are batting for...your stand that the salvation is "not by works" hasn't wavered once.
Nor will it ever....... ;)
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Absolutely no way it be a happy marriage ....the expectation from her would always be works and then fruit inspection.

Grace and salvation works are mutually exclusive.

No amount of humor or devotion can deal with that scenario.

So, if you were both eligible - would you marry her?

..I would - she would be a lot of fun to be with as I like her humor and she has a deep passion for the Lord....:(
 
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Ariel82

Guest
EG I stopped having dialogue after I was told his motive was stand up comedy. I have had skipped most of his posts since then.
.it's not our job to confront and rebuke everyone who misbehave.

I only take the time to correct those I hope know how,much I love them as siblings on Christ.

.I talk with anyone civil but rebuking folks without love is pointless..I will however defend someone if I feel them being bullied or unfairly attacked, even if I don't like or agree with their doctrine.

I know myself well enough to put some folks on ignore because they tend to make me mad or sad with their illogical posts which would take all day to unravel. Those folks I just say a pray, hand them over to God in my heart and move to the next person.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Absolutely no way it be a happy marriage ....the expectation from her would always be works and then fruit inspection.

Grace and salvation works are mutually exclusive.

No amount of humor or devotion can deal with that scenario.
Seems unjust. I bet her husband loves her very much. Mine tells me I get a little heated and judgemental at times and all he has to do is speak a couple works for me to stop and check my heart and motives.

God truly blessed us if he gives us a spouse who seeks to know God and show His love to others.

Sorry Fran, don't want to gossip about you, but the fact you are still married at 70...that says something to the world, because it's not easy to live with someone your entire life.
.the sanctity of marriage shows the world God's love in a unique way.

(wondering if I just stepped in the middle of something I shouldn't have?)

Fyi..the discussion is grace that enables good works in a believer...which most people support.
 
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The truth is simple.....it is basic....even nature itself speaks volumes to the order and yet the obvious is ignored, swept under the rug and or flat denied....

apple seed--->sprouts--->grows--->matures over time---->and will bear fruit (sometimes 1 piece, sometimes numerous pieces, sometimes an abundant amount, sometimes the fruit is stunted, sometimes filled with worms, sometimes falls prematurely etc.....)

YET the tree is the tree though out the WHOLE process.......These fruit inspectors and workers for push and demand a tree overgrown with fruit and the limbs breaking or it cannot be an apple tree...

1 apple<--1 righteous deed, 1 good work, 1 cup of water in the name of Jesus is all that is required to prove salvation....

1--1--1--1--1--1--1<--piece is sufficient to prove the tree!

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
EG I stopped having dialogue after I was told his motive was stand up comedy. I have had skipped most of his posts since then.
.it's not our job to confront and rebuke everyone who misbehave.

I only take the time to correct those I hope know how,much I love them as siblings on Christ.

.I talk with anyone civil but rebuking folks without love is pointless..I will however defend someone if I feel them being bullied or unfairly attacked, even if I don't like or agree with their doctrine.

I know myself well enough to put some folks on ignore because they tend to make me mad or sad with their illogical posts which would take all day to unravel. Those folks I just say a pray, hand them over to God in my heart and move to the next person.
That is stand up comedy? Wow..I hope no one was laughing, to call people out like that.

Well I guess maybe if I heard that,, nah, I still would have confronted a person who makes those comments. People do not like that, It calls them to question, which is why the discussions get loud and seems heated, they always will be, when a person is not able to take it,, Eventually, yes, will have to ignore.

oh by the way, He has joined Stephen and Peter and a few others is my bin, Wonder if they are having a party in there?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Absolutely no way it be a happy marriage ....the expectation from her would always be works and then fruit inspection.

Grace and salvation works are mutually exclusive.

No amount of humor or devotion can deal with that scenario.
I can understand that and it is very true!...

...but most likely in real life - apart from this internet forum which can always lead to mis-understandings - it should be easy for us to just agree to dis-agree on some things and leave it in the hands of the Lord. He will sort us all out.

All of us see through a glass darkly and we only know in part and we only manifest Christ that is in our new creation in part. Walking in love will be our default setting when we keep our eyes on Jesus and what He has done for us. This is living by the spirit.
 
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Therefore we CONCLUDE that a man is justified by FAITH WITHOUT the WORKS of the LAW....

The go to verse in James for the workers for and cake takers who teach a losable salvation is not even taking about salvation, but faith that can be seen BY MEN.....SHOW ME YOUR FAITH.....

AND I will add....NOT ONE person who believes grace dia faith eternal salvations has said that true believers will not have works and or fruit....SO......this whole argument by the workers for and cake takers is MOOT.......
dc - You put out your stall, and then call others you label as cake takers as evil.

But let me see what you believe. A prostitute comes to faith in Jesus. She trusts Christ
for her salvation, that God loves and forgives her. Trouble is she has to earn a living, and
sleeping around for money is her profession. So she carries on, though she knows God loves
her and has saved her, where is she spiritually? And why is she not in the Kingdom of heaven?
If you regard her as saved, secure why?

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.
Rev 21:8

So she has repented of her unbelief and is a good person, does nice things, except for
her sexual immorality, a good example of loving behaviour.

It strikes me your gospel is the cake taking gospel contradicting righteousness and purity,
not able to cope with real moral issues of fidelity and chastity.

I have noticed rather than answering these questions, you are your fellow believers run
away scared.

Is this really the light shinning or darkness fleeing under the truth of Gods light?
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
It
It was a metaphor for the reality of works based salvation (her) and grace based salvation (him).

One or the other ....such a marriage will not be easy.

It was not a personal statement.

Time for me to exit I think it always becomes personal and my mind does not even work that way.






Seems unjust. I bet her husband loves her very much. Mine tells me I get a little heated and judgemental at times and all he has to do is speak a couple works for me to stop and check my heart and motives.

God truly blessed us if he gives us a spouse who seeks to know God and show His love to others.

Sorry Fran, don't want to gossip about you, but the fact you are still married at 70...that says something to the world, because it's not easy to live with someone your entire life.
.the sanctity of marriage shows the world God's love in a unique way.

(wondering if I just stepped in the middle of something I shouldn't have?)

Fyi..the discussion is grace that enables good works in a believer...which most people support.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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EG I stopped having dialogue after I was told his motive was stand up comedy. I have had skipped most of his posts since then.
.it's not our job to confront and rebuke everyone who misbehave.

I only take the time to correct those I hope know how,much I love them as siblings on Christ.

.I talk with anyone civil but rebuking folks without love is pointless..I will however defend someone if I feel them being bullied or unfairly attacked, even if I don't like or agree with their doctrine.

I know myself well enough to put some folks on ignore because they tend to make me mad or sad with their illogical posts which would take all day to unravel. Those folks I just say a pray, hand them over to God in my heart and move to the next person.
That post was well written,the arrow,true and on point,I didn't know whether to like It or hide my face In shame.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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dc - You put out your stall, and then call others you label as cake takers as evil.

But let me see what you believe. A prostitute comes to faith in Jesus. She trusts Christ
for her salvation, that God loves and forgives her. Trouble is she has to earn a living, and
sleeping around for money is her profession. So she carries on, though she knows God loves
her and has saved her, where is she spiritually? And why is she not in the Kingdom of heaven?
If you regard her as saved, secure why?

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.
Rev 21:8

So she has repented of her unbelief and is a good person, does nice things, except for
her sexual immorality, a good example of loving behaviour.

It strikes me your gospel is the cake taking gospel contradicting righteousness and purity,
not able to cope with real moral issues of fidelity and chastity.

I have noticed rather than answering these questions, you are your fellow believers run
away scared.

Is this really the light shinning or darkness fleeing under the truth of Gods light?
What you fail to understand and your fatal error is to compartmentalize sins into a nice neat little boxes.....SIN is IRRELEVANT and has BEEN DEALT with at the cross....the CONVICTION OF SIN by the HOLY SPIRIT is because they DO NOT BELIEVE ON ME.....

SIN is SIN is SIN and the little white lie you may tell places you in the same BOX as your example above.....FORGIVEN is FORGIVEN and AFTER one has trusted into CHRIST they are placed in a positioning of GRACE where the GRACE of GOD out bounds our SIN and the CONDEMNATION of the LAW no longer hangs over our HEAD......

NOW she will be dealt with as a CHILD and afforded TIME to be molded and changed by GOD, his WORD, HIS chastening HAND and HIS BLESSINGS which will ALLOW her to change her lifestyle.......

THIS is what you cannot see because you are sold out to this fantasy land delusion that YOU complete the work Christ has begun and you substitute your own abilities and your own righteousness and deeds in place of the work of Christ in your life.....!

AND for the RECORD....WE have answered until we are blue in the face and you continue to twist, embellish and or fail to see or acknowledge what is said......
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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What you fail to understand and your fatal error is to compartmentalize sins into a nice neat little boxes.....SIN is IRRELEVANT and has BEEN DEALT with at the cross....the CONVICTION OF SIN by the HOLY SPIRIT is because they DO NOT BELIEVE ON ME.....

SIN is SIN is SIN and the little white lie you may tell places you in the same BOX as your example above.....FORGIVEN is FORGIVEN and AFTER one has trusted into CHRIST they are placed in a positioning of GRACE where the GRACE of GOD out bounds our SIN and the CONDEMNATION of the LAW no longer hangs over our HEAD......

NOW she will be dealt with as a CHILD and afforded TIME to be molded and changed by GOD, his WORD, HIS chastening HAND and HIS BLESSINGS which will ALLOW her to change her lifestyle.......

THIS is what you cannot see because you are sold out to this fantasy land delusion that YOU complete the work Christ has begun and you substitute your own abilities and your own righteousness and deeds in place of the work of Christ in your life.....!

AND for the RECORD....WE have answered until we are blue in the face and you continue to twist, embellish and or fail to see or acknowledge what is said......
that is what legalists do. they put sin in a box, throw a couple of verses at it, and say " just be like me, i'm right with God', all the while never deeply examining their own sins, and confessing and repenting of them.

they have big windows they look at everyone else thru, but tiny mirrors they seldom use to examine themselves.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
What you fail to understand and your fatal error is to compartmentalize sins into a nice neat little boxes.....SIN is IRRELEVANT and has BEEN DEALT with at the cross....the CONVICTION OF SIN by the HOLY SPIRIT is because they DO NOT BELIEVE ON ME.....

SIN is SIN is SIN and the little white lie you may tell places you in the same BOX as your example above.....FORGIVEN is FORGIVEN and AFTER one has trusted into CHRIST they are placed in a positioning of GRACE where the GRACE of GOD out bounds our SIN and the CONDEMNATION of the LAW no longer hangs over our HEAD......

NOW she will be dealt with as a CHILD and afforded TIME to be molded and changed by GOD, his WORD, HIS chastening HAND and HIS BLESSINGS which will ALLOW her to change her lifestyle.......

THIS is what you cannot see because you are sold out to this fantasy land delusion that YOU complete the work Christ has begun and you substitute your own abilities and your own righteousness and deeds in place of the work of Christ in your life.....!

AND for the RECORD....WE have answered until we are blue in the face and you continue to twist, embellish and or fail to see or acknowledge what is said......

The like to focus on all these sin, yet they refuse to acknowledge their own. They are not going to convince people they are reputable teachers, when they do not practice what they preach.

They also like to get a rise out of us, Like condemning that girl to hell because she got angry at God because her child died.

people like to base things on emotions (peter has said himself numerous times that was an important indicator) and not on biblical understanding.
 
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Arrogance, condescension, disrespect and lacking humility... wow, you should be proud to speak to another person like that. And you preach the Love of God? hmmm Great representative...
Another travesty of the feel good grace all the time gospel is this....

People often cannot discern true correction done in love...and therefore refuse any form of Biblical correction, because they are brainwashed into thinking that it is good all the time and all the time its good! So you best not ever correct me, talk to me about condition or even try to approach me about my walk...cause I be covered in grace and that is all I need. The grace easy believing message leaves out 3/4 of the Christian transformation doctrines found in just about all of Paul's Epistles....it leaves out 100% of the church authority and correction doctrine, because the perverse grace message will not allow others to speak into another life...Yet Paul exhorts ministers and people do just the opposite of grace teachers....


I have said this same thing word for word in person and just as bluntly to people. They will react as undergrace and you have because pride is the first defense of anyone when they truly are caught empty handed and without excuse [Eve did to Adam, Adam did to Eve] I am guilty of the same defense, we all are....what we have to do is learn to set aside our pride and be teachable, even if it is something we think we know very well....but especially so, if we have no idea what we are saying and that was undergrace completely on the topic of the fear of the Lord....instead of asking, she kept on assuming....I gave her plenty of warnings to stop talking and then put on the brakes to her the way I did...She and you may think it is Arrogance, condescension, disrespect and lacking humility, but it was done in complete love and desire to teach her what she had no clue about.


This was nothing more than....STOP! do not mix bleach with that ammonia....

When its about the way, the truth and the life....we must be firm, direct and blunt to avoid instant death.


The church is powerless because grace will not let us voice a discernment, concern, warning, rebuke, correction, exhortation or otherwise to thousands of "Christians" because grace alone does it all....this is the lie of grace only easy believing...

Grace alone is only taught, yet Grace and truth are what Jesus is all about....we have boatloads of grace, but not any modern day grace teachers care much for the truth....Grace does not set you free, truth sets you free....Grace is the oil to the wheel of the truth....the reformation coming is to purge the grace only teaching from the body.....

Grace is amazing, wonderful, freedom/liberty and empowers the truth.
truth is hard, hurts, forces inward change, restrains and holds grace accountable.

The closer to the truth Jesus got in his doctrine is when he lost the most that were following him...

The real sad thing here is that we have a poster who has tremendous knowledge about grace, but cannot articulate something as beautiful and wonderful as the fear of the Lord...because she is blinded by a grace only message into thinking anything to do with fear and the Lord is works based....grace is present but the truth is not anywhere to be found....this makes grace lasciviousness....

I said this word for word to man I had as a guest speaker in our ministry one night....except I told him to pack and leave...he was not speaking grace or truth...and as the spiritual authority of the people he was speaking to, they needed to be protected agaisnt what he was pushing...I knew that guy for 2 years and had heard him preach/teach many times....he was grace/truth...but what I did not know was he had his ears tickled by false doctrines and was being corrupted by false teaching of rapture date setters like John Hagee, Mark Biltz, Paul Begley and Jonathan Cahn....

We broke fellowship with him immediately....

Soldiers of Christ who make soldiers of Christ do not get there by eating diet bread sticks and drinking powdered milk and sugar coated greasy grace nuggets....They get there by the full counsel of the meat of the word.


I suppose you would call the below Arrogance, condescension, disrespect and lacking humility as well....

I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: [SUP]2 [/SUP]preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Truth in lvoe is the greatest thing Jesus ever did....what a pity so many today cannot discern it, or learn from it....