Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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Amen,

Fear means reverence, if I remember right, but there are some who do preach fear.. as in being scared..
Amen...and lest we all forget....FEAR is the beginning point and over time and maturity is to be supplanted with LOVE as the motivating force behind our service....and I have read thru and will say.....the bible does say that the GRACE of GOD that BRINGS salvation has appeared unto all men and that grace of GOD that has appeared unto all men TEACHES us how to live in Christ.......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Life perspectives

We will all die. Something will kill us. We can maybe choose our death, but mostly not.
So whatever choices we make, it will not save us.

Jesus offers us life, not just life with Him but life with others, who love and care.
Now some crazy nutcase might appear and want to destroy this effort, make individuals
compromise, but eternity just carries on its work.

Once you see righteousness and love, its eternal nature from the Father, through the son
there is no other way.

Those who want to save those who walk away, are just excusing darkness over light.
The light will never be extinguished, and those who understand it want just to know it more
and walk deeper.
We which are ALIVE AND REMAIN unto the coming of the LORD...........NOT ALL will die.....some will be CHANGED......
 
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Redeemed as in redeemed again redeemed and again redeemed...crucifying Christ over and over every time he throws us into the cleanising fire like a firbrand of the word of God?

How many times must a person be redeemed?

We are redeemed (once)only because we have fellowship with God.... because only the redeemed have fellowship. If we are not redeemed as the better thing that accompanies salvation then we are like those in Hebrews 6 that offer dead works coming from a dead faith.(no faith)

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ, in respect to the faith of Christ then they do not belong to Him. There is not one thing you could perform to make yourself born again(redeemption) or something you could to maintain eternal life.

It is this communion that gives us His Spirit life and this alone. No man will be found with a spirit life of their own.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Heb 6:1




That parable does no apply to those who have not the Spirit of Christ....but rather the firery trial of faith for the believer

Unbelievers were never in Christ. The word is you speaking to the believers as a warning. Not them that went out from us because they were never of us. They would not be called branches.

There are no verses that say a person can loose the good work Christ performs in us .If he has begun it he will finish it.

If a believer sins by not remaining and falls from the grace of Christ by denying Him; because Christ has paid the full eternal (not five mimutes and you are on your own )wage of sin and not a kick start placing man were Adam and Eve before one transgression. He gave His life in jeopardy of his own Spirit life in our place, for sins.. past and sins we will commit.

He cannot (impossible) deny himself.

Again....If any man has not the Spirit of Christ they do nor belong to Him.

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.2Ti 2:13


Those who were as a firebrand throne into the fire of his loving rebuke and yet do not return to the source of Grave ,the work of Christ .they have their reward of self righteousness and show it by not returning .Crucifying Christ over and over to public shame as if on demonstration was not enough.


Amo 4:11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.

AMEN....My bible states redeemed once for all and save to the uttermost ETERNALLY.......Jesus will KEEP his word and promises........end of story!
 
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James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Therefore we CONCLUDE that a man is justified by FAITH WITHOUT the WORKS of the LAW....

The go to verse in James for the workers for and cake takers who teach a losable salvation is not even taking about salvation, but faith that can be seen BY MEN.....SHOW ME YOUR FAITH.....

AND I will add....NOT ONE person who believes grace dia faith eternal salvations has said that true believers will not have works and or fruit....SO......this whole argument by the workers for and cake takers is MOOT.......
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
This is not true for me. I tend to understand what people are saying.
I've said this before.

When you know the different groups and what they believe, you understand MORE not LESS.

Not everyone accepts everything that one Group teaches. THIS is why I listen attentively when people speak.
be careful, you have thought I have said a few things I did not, I think we all make this mistake
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
NNM

I'm explaining what Calvinists believe.
I didn't say I agree with it !!

See. This is how misundersandings happen.
Please read the post again.
ohhhh i know i know
fran

lol sorry
i actually just had a thought related to what you said and dropped that

im fully aware youre not calvinist

actually

one of the first things you said to ME was that i was too calvinistic
(._.')

if you remember

haha

not that im upset over that or anything
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Amen...and lest we all forget....FEAR is the beginning point and over time and maturity is to be supplanted with LOVE as the motivating force behind our service....and I have read thru and will say.....the bible does say that the GRACE of GOD that BRINGS salvation has appeared unto all men and that grace of GOD that has appeared unto all men TEACHES us how to live in Christ.......

Amen.....in the Old Testament - the fear of the Lord ( used as in terror as the Greek version of the Old Testament scriptures shows ) is the beginning of wisdom.

Proverbs 9:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.


In the New Covenant as sons/daughters of our loving Father - Christ Himself is the end of all wisdom and the culmination of wisdom.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."
 
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I find it very unfortunate to treat a newcomer like this.
We should try to make them feel welcome.
I think he was just giving his opinion and was not confrontational in any way.
It's not even an opinion, it sounds very sound and doctrinal to me...

I'm sorry if he Leaves the discussion because he seems like a serious person and we don't have
enough of that here...
Funny (SIC) how you accept sarcasm, mouthy witty comments from those who believe like you do and then condemn those who return the favor........
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
What said about Judas?
God can make you
know what youre going to do

but provide everything you need to do something else

that way you cant say "i only did what you told me to do"
on judgement day



(noticed i didnt answer your question really.... im sorty)
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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Does faith produce works in order to become a living faith (something that's dead cannot produce anything) or BECAUSE it's a living faith? (Ephesians 2:5-10).

Also, does a tree produce fruit in order to become a living tree or BECAUSE it's a living tree?
AMEN...even nature and creation proves the truth and opposes their working for dogma.....
 
Apr 30, 2016
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ohhhh i know i know
fran

lol sorry
i actually just had a thought related to what you said and dropped that

im fully aware youre not calvinist

actually

one of the first things you said to ME was that i was too calvinistic
(._.')

if you remember

haha

not that im upset over that or anything
Yeah NNM

I really hate Calvinism.

Blessings brother
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 11 See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done.
2 cor 7:8-11

We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious
1 Tim 1:9

For in my inner being I delight in God’s law
Rom 7:22

I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Rom 7:25

I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Heb 8:10
The better thing that does accompany salvation called real redemption and not a kick start placing a person where Adam and Eve where before the death of their soul comes by being born again.

Its the sorrow that comes from knowing God …not knowing about him... but intimately knowing him that causes the believers sorrow .Not the sorrow of the world they not have the Spirit of Christ and need to be born again ..

How many times does a person need to be born again before they can know him intimately?

Can we offer dead faith(towards God not coming from Him) through dead works like those in Hebrews 6 ?Or is one demonstration enough to prevent men from exposing him to public shame as if once fell short of His glory?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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The danger is to not let ourselves be drawn in to the caustic environment created by them. They push and provoke and berate and shame (that's a biggie) until you react, then they point out what a terrible person you are.

I saw the caustic environment that was being set here and I admit I was drawn into it and I have responded in ways I know better to not respond in. And for that I apologize to all. I especially want to apologize to anyone who may feel emboldened by my example to follow in my example. Don't do it. Online religious forums are the playground of the devil and it's better not to play here.

I know this will be an occasion for gloating by some, while my apology will be received by others. The important thing is I've made my peace and so Ill be moving on. Off to better things, folks. I'm out.
Not even sure your apology is meant for me as well as others, and I absolutely accept it, BUT a true apology shouldn't be preceded with a whole bunch of equivocations about what OTHERS have done to get YOU to react in a poor manner, thereby somewhat justifying YOUR bad behavior.
 
Z
I know and that has nothing to do with Judas tho.. it was an example for what you said.. Other than that, I had no reason to post... Thanks for your time to respond tho
God can make you
know what youre going to do

but provide everything you need to do something else

that way you cant say "i only did what you told me to do"
on judgement day
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Funny (SIC) how you accept sarcasm, mouthy witty comments from those who believe like you do and then condemn those who return the favor........
It's up to the older person to be more understanding.
I think PHart felt attacked. I felt like this too when I got here.
I would be gone too by now except for the reason that I've repeated many times.
I don't know why we can't just have a nice conversation.

You show up every now and then and act like a referee.
It would be nice if you just posted what you believe and used scripture instead
of making those comments like you do.

Anyway, it's time for me to be leaving for a while again.
Hope you don't miss me too much...
(Yeah ! I know you can't wait to get rid of me!!)

P.S. I don't mean older in age, but in seniority to the thread.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by Grace777x70
It's time for some humor!

Get ready for the 2 witnesses that are in the book of Revelation to show up!






LOL You seem to be in tune....quite Loonly.


Will the real duck please stand up?
LOL..I know!

Daffy Duck and Donald Duck have as much chance as being the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation as our loving Father has of sending His beloved children to hell and to the lake of fire because they didn't go enough "good works" to keep themselves saved.

Only the blood of Jesus and His life being broken for us is what saves us. We trust in Him alone and "in Him we have redemption".

We are safe in Christ "if" we have believed "in our heart" when we heard the message of Christ's grace. Rom. 10:9-10 & Eph. 1:13 & John 14:16
 
Dec 12, 2013
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16,000+ replies in this thread. How many of them are bringing glory to God?
All I see are people trying to score ego points and diminish each other.
You must not have read all 16,000 posts or are blind....there are a lot of scriptures posted and many good statements made throughout the thread......
 
Dec 21, 2012
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Self made righteousness or DIY religion

It is very odd that those who invent their own interpretations of Jesus and His words,
construct their own lack of need to walk without sinning, are the ones claiming others
are building their own righteousness by obeying Christ.

We are called to walk in the light, to be Gods righteousness on earth, to demonstrate
Christ in us by being overcomers of sin. It makes no sense if we are still dominated by
besetting sin and trouble, because the power of the cross is victory over sin and death.

Now some claim they have tried to conquer sin by obeying the rules, like Paul before he
came to faith. He found all it created was condemnation and hypocracy.

But in Christ he became Holy, pure, blameless, righteous, cleansed and empowered by love
which fulfilled the law without even trying.

So those who moan it is impossible, are moaning they have yet to find love in their hearts,
or the power of the cross in their lives. Only by Christ is His way not a burden and easy.

This is why I wonder what defeat is causing such despair. It is sorrow and mourning before
the Lord that bring victory and resurrection in faith.
This may be why. If they are living under the commitment to follow Christ or doing any of the promises of the Promise Keepers movements or BOTH, then that is why they are failing because they are under the impression that God will help them keep their commitment and their promises when His words says He will not.

Numbers 30:[SUP]2 [/SUP]If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

Ecclesiastes 5:[SUP]4 [/SUP]When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?

Your commitment and your promises means that is YOUR work and that it will cause your flesh to sin. That is why Jesus had spoken against it in doing anything "for" God when we are to live by faith in what God will do for us, because we cannot make one hair white or black.

Matthew 5:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:[SUP] 34 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:[SUP]35 [/SUP]Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.[SUP] 36 [/SUP]Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.[SUP] 37 [/SUP]But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

The CEV modern Bible has changed the message in Matthew 5:33-37 and even Galatians 5:1-5 to make it okay to make promises to God and to men. And so they may not realize that they are being led astray by an errant modern Bible version.

So that may be why believers find it hard and even trying to do the best they can because they are not "rolling" the burden over to the Lord in their walk with Him. It is His work and we deny ourselves as able to follow Him thereby leaning on Him all the time for the help in following Him instead of doing the best we can and hope He does the rest in helping us keep our commitment to follow Him or promises to do good or be good.

Even the Promise Keepers movement taught them to use God's grace to keep trying to keep those promises, but again, His words says He will not, and believers need to ask for forgiveness for making those commitments and promises to be set free from them so they can rest in Him and all His promises to us for following Him.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.....[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Philippians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....[SUP]11 [/SUP]Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

1 John 3:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.....[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 Corinthians 10:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.[SUP]13 [/SUP]There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

2 Timothy 4:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,[SUP]25 [/SUP]To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

It should be noted that running that race by looking to the author & finisher of our faith in helping us lay aside every weight & sin does not end down here until we are taken Home, so just because some may be having a hard time and not because they are doing it religiously in following Him, but just because they are going through an ordeal, it does not mean the fault is theirs. That's life.

1 Peter 4:[SUP]12 [/SUP]Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:[SUP]13 [/SUP]But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

1 Peter 5:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:[SUP] 7 [/SUP]Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:[SUP] 9 [/SUP]Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

But it is better to roll the burden over to Him because He is the One that overcomes for us.

John 16:[SUP]32 [/SUP]Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.[SUP] 33 [/SUP]These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

So when a believer is struggling alone, encourage them that they are not alone for the Father is with them and that Jesus Christ is in them as to why He will overcome as He has overcome the world.

1 John 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him....[SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It's up to the older person to be more understanding.
I think PHart felt attacked. I felt like this too when I got here.
I would be gone too by now except for the reason that I've repeated many times.
I don't know why we can't just have a nice conversation.

You show up every now and then and act like a referee.
It would be nice if you just posted what you believe and used scripture instead
of making those comments like you do.

Anyway, it's time for me to be leaving for a while again.
Hope you don't miss me too much...
(Yeah ! I know you can't wait to get rid of me!!)

P.S. I don't mean older in age, but in seniority to the thread.
Never said nor implied that...I have no problem with you other than I vehemently disagree with you that salvation is maintained and or can be lost by what we do or do not do...and have even stated I like u....so....