Not By Works
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J
A person in a free forum to reply as I deem... like everyone else. I see dual consistency in your responses as well. The difference is you don't like when it comes your direction as this has seemed to be divided into two "camps". I personally don't mind being corrected IF I say something offensive... and the kindergarten remark was a generalized statement... you seem very sensitive to. ~ Check yourself 
gb9 - this is aberrant waffle.
The commandments defines sin. It is why the commandments were given. Fact.
You have not mentioned this once.
Now Paul says love fulfills the commandments.
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Rom 13:10
Paul also talks about ones conscience and being careful not to do things you believe
are wrong or outside the faith, or to not do something good which you know you should.
Now there is a massive difference between honouring the mark as a real thing, and just
saying it shows you are a sinner so ignore it.
It appears that is your position, nothing to do with facts, just capitulation to sinful behaviour
and knowing you have capitulated and therefore are now under judgement.
Christ kept the law, and expects His people to follow His commands. If you are in rebellion against
His commandments you do not know Him.
You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:14
Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.
1 John 2:4
If we do not do what Jesus commands and we claim to know Him, we lie.
The commandments defines sin. It is why the commandments were given. Fact.
You have not mentioned this once.
Now Paul says love fulfills the commandments.
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Rom 13:10
Paul also talks about ones conscience and being careful not to do things you believe
are wrong or outside the faith, or to not do something good which you know you should.
Now there is a massive difference between honouring the mark as a real thing, and just
saying it shows you are a sinner so ignore it.
It appears that is your position, nothing to do with facts, just capitulation to sinful behaviour
and knowing you have capitulated and therefore are now under judgement.
Christ kept the law, and expects His people to follow His commands. If you are in rebellion against
His commandments you do not know Him.
You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:14
Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.
1 John 2:4
If we do not do what Jesus commands and we claim to know Him, we lie.
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Rom 12:2
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
1 Cor 10:5
Then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind.
Phil 2:2
Strive for full restoration, encourage one another, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.
2 Cor 13:11
The above encouragements are only possible if we walk righteously, filled with love
and encouragement walking in the Spirit.
It is why to suggest Paul thought otherwise is ludicrous. Sin has no place in the fellowship.
Paul says not even a hint of impurity should be among the Lords people.
Can you imagine these words ever passing the lips of many preachers today in the
fellowships people are supporting here. Not a chance.
Rom 12:2
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
1 Cor 10:5
Then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind.
Phil 2:2
Strive for full restoration, encourage one another, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.
2 Cor 13:11
The above encouragements are only possible if we walk righteously, filled with love
and encouragement walking in the Spirit.
It is why to suggest Paul thought otherwise is ludicrous. Sin has no place in the fellowship.
Paul says not even a hint of impurity should be among the Lords people.
Can you imagine these words ever passing the lips of many preachers today in the
fellowships people are supporting here. Not a chance.
A
Gb9...some folks don't get these verse and prayer is needed in those cases for they would draw blood when God says He values mercy.
1 Peter 4:8 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
New Living Translation
Most important of all, continue to show deep love for each other, for love covers a multitude of sins.
English Standard Version
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.
Berean Study Bible
Above all, love one another deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
Berean Literal Bible
above all things, having fervent love among yourselves, because love covers over a multitude of sins,
New American Standard Bible
Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.
King James Bible
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
*******
Matthew 9:13 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
New Living Translation
Then he added, "Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: 'I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.' For I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners."
English Standard Version
Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Berean Study Bible
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Berean Literal Bible
But having gone, learn what is, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."
New American Standard Bible
"But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
King James Bible
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
1 Peter 4:8 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
New Living Translation
Most important of all, continue to show deep love for each other, for love covers a multitude of sins.
English Standard Version
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.
Berean Study Bible
Above all, love one another deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
Berean Literal Bible
above all things, having fervent love among yourselves, because love covers over a multitude of sins,
New American Standard Bible
Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.
King James Bible
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
*******
Matthew 9:13 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
New Living Translation
Then he added, "Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: 'I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.' For I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners."
English Standard Version
Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Berean Study Bible
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Berean Literal Bible
But having gone, learn what is, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."
New American Standard Bible
"But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
King James Bible
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
My guess is that having placed her faith in Jesus then God starts to work and she will starts to trust and as God works he will conform her to the image of Christ.
I think I would take it a bit further.
Maybe the church should step in and help her out, provide food to eat and so on.
Its no use if you tell the prostitute to stop sleeping around otherwise she is going to hell and leave it at that.
Here is another scenario for people to consider.
My wife and I have come alongside two couples. Recently have become believers in Christ.
Both couples have been together for a long time, by that I mean many many years. Both couples live together.
Couple A have a child together. The bloke suffers with severe anxiety and issues due to severe sexual abuse by his step dad.
But they are a family unit.
Couple B have both been divorced and the bloke suffers from severe bipolar.
My guess is both couples engage in nookie.
How would you come alongside them?
What would you say, how would work with them?
Can I ask you to just say what you would do and advise.
No detracting from the issue at hand with other scenarios.
One of things I do like about your posts is your focus on love and it's working in us.
So let me know how you would love these couples.
Ta
I think I would take it a bit further.
Maybe the church should step in and help her out, provide food to eat and so on.
Its no use if you tell the prostitute to stop sleeping around otherwise she is going to hell and leave it at that.
Here is another scenario for people to consider.
My wife and I have come alongside two couples. Recently have become believers in Christ.
Both couples have been together for a long time, by that I mean many many years. Both couples live together.
Couple A have a child together. The bloke suffers with severe anxiety and issues due to severe sexual abuse by his step dad.
But they are a family unit.
Couple B have both been divorced and the bloke suffers from severe bipolar.
My guess is both couples engage in nookie.
How would you come alongside them?
What would you say, how would work with them?
Can I ask you to just say what you would do and advise.
No detracting from the issue at hand with other scenarios.
One of things I do like about your posts is your focus on love and it's working in us.
So let me know how you would love these couples.
Ta
E
we had that happen here, Where a child of one of our leaders did moved in with a guy, They both decided to follow God, and do the right thing, so moved out until they could get officially married. Yet they had been churched their whole life, and were christians for awhile. so it is not the same as new believers.
as for the New believers? The worst thing you can do is start throwing law at them. That will either get them to walk away real fast (it would be a MAJOR cost to seperate, not to mention they do not have the maturity yet to really take great leaps of faith if they are new believers, they are still just babes) or stunt their growth as they lose faith and hope real fast.. .
I would pray hard, And ask Gods advice, If anything try to lead them towards making their relationship official. even if it means just going to justice of the peace.
But do not push anything yet,, Let the mature first!
as for the New believers? The worst thing you can do is start throwing law at them. That will either get them to walk away real fast (it would be a MAJOR cost to seperate, not to mention they do not have the maturity yet to really take great leaps of faith if they are new believers, they are still just babes) or stunt their growth as they lose faith and hope real fast.. .
I would pray hard, And ask Gods advice, If anything try to lead them towards making their relationship official. even if it means just going to justice of the peace.
But do not push anything yet,, Let the mature first!
Totally agree here EG,
The law has no place anywhere with new believers and especially in today' new believers family dynamic...
We did a 4 day workshop for our pastors last year on how to minister to married blended families and non married blended families....this seems to be getting more frequent....We talked to a lot of blended families and they do not feel welcome in churches today, because of being blended...we educated & trained our Pastors, Youth and Children Pastors and then asked the blended families we spoke with to give our local churches a try...some never came, but many did and found a condemnation free zone...the church and these families are thriving...some Pastors are even allowing some blended family folks to lead small groups, etc...
PS: blended meaning families with 1 or 2 step parents and kids from different marriages.
The law has no place anywhere with new believers and especially in today' new believers family dynamic...
We did a 4 day workshop for our pastors last year on how to minister to married blended families and non married blended families....this seems to be getting more frequent....We talked to a lot of blended families and they do not feel welcome in churches today, because of being blended...we educated & trained our Pastors, Youth and Children Pastors and then asked the blended families we spoke with to give our local churches a try...some never came, but many did and found a condemnation free zone...the church and these families are thriving...some Pastors are even allowing some blended family folks to lead small groups, etc...
PS: blended meaning families with 1 or 2 step parents and kids from different marriages.
I am so glad I am not associated with one of the legalistic, hyper cram the law down your throat churches that will move to withdraw fellowship if you pass gas in the foyer......People need to be given time to grow, mature, wise up and learn how to walk and talk....just like baby learning to walk....do we whip the when they fall down or do we help them learn to walk.....
Gonna open up a little bit here.
I suffer from severe anxiety, it takes effort to get out of bed, it takes effort to run a company of 30 people.
Ensuring they are paid to meet their needs.
When anxiety is at its worst I just want turn lights off and curl up in the corner (which I used to do)
Even as I type this I'm really struggling.
For 27 years this has been my story.
I have the most amazing wife, 4 beautiful kids and all have placed their faith in Jesus and I love them dearly.
I cant give up though and here is where I'm gonna open up.
My anxiety tskes me places I don't want to go to. My thoughts seem to control me. I have dreams of my kids dying, my wife dying, 30 employees on the street cause the business has gone bust.
But I do everything for everyone in my life and I ask Jesus to help me do it. If he didn't I couldn't do it.
I can't seem to shake them off, no matter how much prayer I have prayed.
So my outlet is to have a few beers of an evening, with a smoke.
So given a lot of posts I've read on this thread some would say I'm going to hell.
I suffer from severe anxiety, it takes effort to get out of bed, it takes effort to run a company of 30 people.
Ensuring they are paid to meet their needs.
When anxiety is at its worst I just want turn lights off and curl up in the corner (which I used to do)
Even as I type this I'm really struggling.
For 27 years this has been my story.
I have the most amazing wife, 4 beautiful kids and all have placed their faith in Jesus and I love them dearly.
I cant give up though and here is where I'm gonna open up.
My anxiety tskes me places I don't want to go to. My thoughts seem to control me. I have dreams of my kids dying, my wife dying, 30 employees on the street cause the business has gone bust.
But I do everything for everyone in my life and I ask Jesus to help me do it. If he didn't I couldn't do it.
I can't seem to shake them off, no matter how much prayer I have prayed.
So my outlet is to have a few beers of an evening, with a smoke.
So given a lot of posts I've read on this thread some would say I'm going to hell.
I don't believe that...and the bible is clear.....a few beers will not send you to hell.....nor will a few glasses of wine.....it is legalism that states that.....John the Baptist came neither eating or DRINKING...JESUS came doing BOTH and we all know the result of that.....he was not called a winebibber because he drank grape juice......end of story....!
A
No way anyone should say such rubbish to you Bill!
You are a beloved brother and often very encouraging and humble. I believe it's a blessing to be able to fellowship with you.
Believe it or not people used to believe I was shy and quiet.....lol, as you can tell folks don't know me very well.
In reality I am kind of soft spoken and suffer from asthma and have to focus on just breathing sometimes much less talking...I know what you mean that some days you just want to curl up and block out the world.
.I normally read a book or watch a movie to escape reality.
Beer gives me gas and cigarettes causes me to stop breathing..,so that's why they aren't my vices.
However I don't see any commandment against either.
God doesn't want you to get drunk but he understands we need ways to cope with stress and isn't as legalistic as some folks.
Anyway, I am gonna say a short prayer..,some may condemn me for praying in public but I am going to do it anyway. I am tired of not speaking up because folks might get offended.
You are a beloved brother and often very encouraging and humble. I believe it's a blessing to be able to fellowship with you.
Believe it or not people used to believe I was shy and quiet.....lol, as you can tell folks don't know me very well.
In reality I am kind of soft spoken and suffer from asthma and have to focus on just breathing sometimes much less talking...I know what you mean that some days you just want to curl up and block out the world.
.I normally read a book or watch a movie to escape reality.
Beer gives me gas and cigarettes causes me to stop breathing..,so that's why they aren't my vices.
However I don't see any commandment against either.
God doesn't want you to get drunk but he understands we need ways to cope with stress and isn't as legalistic as some folks.
Anyway, I am gonna say a short prayer..,some may condemn me for praying in public but I am going to do it anyway. I am tired of not speaking up because folks might get offended.
A
Dear God:
You see our hearts and you know our faults better than we do. I know you have washed us clean in the Blood of your son Jesus, but some days we feel dirty and the worries of the world weigh us down.
God help us to lay them at your feet and trust you to take care of us and our families. There is so much out of our control that we may feel helpless and unable to deal, but God remind us that You are in control and you have plans for our good.
God the world distracts us from you, it judges us as unworthy and our heart agrees...we are unworthy of your love. We are sinners in need of a savior.
Lord help us to see ourselves as You see us. Help us be worthy to be called Your beloved children.
Calm our fears Lord and give us peace as only You can give.
When we want to hide from the world, remind us that we are beautifully and wonderfully made and empowered to do Your good works. We are not worthless. We are not forgotten. You catch every tear drop and see us as we are. You started a good work in us and will see it to completion.
God we thank you for the promises found in Your word, in your Holy Bible and the wisdom given by the Holy spirit.
God we thank you forever, in Jesus name we praise you eternally, amen.
You see our hearts and you know our faults better than we do. I know you have washed us clean in the Blood of your son Jesus, but some days we feel dirty and the worries of the world weigh us down.
God help us to lay them at your feet and trust you to take care of us and our families. There is so much out of our control that we may feel helpless and unable to deal, but God remind us that You are in control and you have plans for our good.
God the world distracts us from you, it judges us as unworthy and our heart agrees...we are unworthy of your love. We are sinners in need of a savior.
Lord help us to see ourselves as You see us. Help us be worthy to be called Your beloved children.
Calm our fears Lord and give us peace as only You can give.
When we want to hide from the world, remind us that we are beautifully and wonderfully made and empowered to do Your good works. We are not worthless. We are not forgotten. You catch every tear drop and see us as we are. You started a good work in us and will see it to completion.
God we thank you for the promises found in Your word, in your Holy Bible and the wisdom given by the Holy spirit.
God we thank you forever, in Jesus name we praise you eternally, amen.