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it's an interesting question, imo
the 'break bread' could be a regular meal
or it could be the holy meal
we can compare it with Luke 24, where Jesus is recognized 'serving communion'
1 Cor 11
Jesus took bread. 24 When he had given thanks, he broke it
33 Therefore, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another.
the 'break bread' could be a regular meal
or it could be the holy meal
we can compare it with Luke 24, where Jesus is recognized 'serving communion'
1 Cor 11
Jesus took bread. 24 When he had given thanks, he broke it
33 Therefore, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another.
Hello Jackson,
I just woke up now. Its so nice to chat with you. I think as Beta said earlier the verse you quoted above is only talking about the disciples having a meal together and sharing the word of God. It says nothing about us not having to keep God's 7th Day Sabbath Holy like God commanded us to (Ex 20:8-11). In fact there is not one verse in the entire bible that says we do not need to keep God's 7th Day Sabbath anymore. You may need to study your bible further. Building on from the last posts we shared together yesterday my time from 1157, 1160, 1166 and 1168, the scriptures and facts below should help you to see further that your interpretation of God's Word is is not consistent with the rest of the Bible.
1. After working the first six days of the week in creating this earth, the great God rested on the seventh day. (Genesis 2:1.3.)
2. This stamped that day as God’s rest day, or Sabbath day, as Sabbath day means rest day. To illustrate: When a person is born on a certain day, that day thus becomes his birthday. So when God rested upon the seventh day, that day became His rest, or Sabbath, day.
3. Therefore the seventh day must always be God’s Sabbath day. Can you change your birthday from the day on which you were born to one on which you were not born? No. Neither can you change God’s rest day to a day on which He did not rest. Hence the seventh day is still God’s Sabbath day.
4. The Creator blessed the seventh day. (Genesis 2:3.)
5. He sanctified the seventh day. (Exodus 20:11.)
6. He made it the Sabbath day in the Garden of Eden. (Genesis 2:1-3.)
7. It was made before the fall; hence it is not a type; for types were not introduced till after the fall.
8. Jesus says it was made for man (Mark 2:27), that is, for the race, as the word man is here unlimited; hence, for the Gentile as well as for the Jew.
9. It is a memorial of creation. (Exodus 20:11; 31:17.) Every time we rest upon the seventh day, as God did at creation, we commemorate that grand event.
10. It was given to Adam, the head of the human race. (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3.)
11. Hence through him, as our representative, to all nations. (Acts 17:26.)
12. It is’ not a Jewish institution, for it was made 2,300 years before ever there was a Jew.
13. The Bible never calls it the Jewish Sabbath, but always “the Sabbath of the Lord thy God.” Men should be cautious how they stigmatize God’s holy rest day.
14. Evident reference is made to the Sabbath and the seven-day week all, through the patriarchal age. (Genesis 2:1-3; 8:10-12; 29:27-28.etc.)
15. It was a part of God’s law before Sinai. (Exodus 16:4, 27-29.)
16. Then God placed it in the heart of His moral law. (Exodus 20:1-17.) Why did He place it there if it was not like the other nine precepts, which all admit to be immutable?
17. The seventh-day Sabbath was commanded by the voice of the living God. (Deuteronomy 4:12-13.)
18. Then He wrote the Commandment with His own finger. (Exodus 31:18.)
19. He engraved it in the enduring stone, indicating its imperishable nature. (Deuteronomy 5:22.)
20. It was sacredly preserved in the ark in the holy of holies. (Deuteronomy 10:1-5.)
21. God forbade work upon the Sabbath, even in the most hurrying times. (Exodus 34:21.)
22. God destroyed the Israelites in the wilderness because they profaned the Sabbath. (Ezekiel 20:12-13.)
23. It is the sign of the true God, by which we are to know Him from false gods. (Ezekiel 20:20.)
24. God promised that Jerusalem should stand forever if the Jews would keep the Sabbath (Jeremiah 17:24-25.)
25. He sent them into the Babylonish captivity for breaking it. (Nehemiah 13:18.)
26. He destroyed Jerusalem for its violation. (Jeremiah 17:27.)
27. God has pronounced a special blessing on all the Gentiles who will keep it. (Isaiah 56:6-7.)
28. This is in the prophecy, which refers wholly to the Christian dispensation. (See Isaiah 56.)
29. God has promised to bless all who keep the Sabbath. (Isaiah 56:2.)
30. The Lord requires us to call it “honourable.” (Isaiah 58:13.) Beware, ye who take delight in calling it the. “old
Jewish Sabbath,” “a yoke of bondage,” etc.
31. After the holy Sabbath has been trodden down “many generations,” it is to be restored in the last days. (Isaiah 58:12-13.)
32. All the holy prophets kept the seventh day.
33. When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life. (Luke 4:16; John 15:10.) Thus He followed
His Father’s example at creation. Shall we not be safe in following the example of both the Father and the Son?
34. The seventh day is the Lord’s Day. (See Revelation 1:10; Mark 2:28; Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 20:10.)
35. Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28), that is, to love and protect it, as the husband is the lord of the wife, to love and cherish her (1 Peter 3:6.)
36. He vindicated the Sabbath as a merciful institution designed for man’s good. (Mark 2:23-28.)
37. Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, He carefully taught how it should be observed. (Matthew 13:1-13.)
38. He taught His disciples that they should do nothing upon the Sabbath day but what was “lawful” (Matthew 12:12.)
39. He instructed His apostles that the Sabbath should be prayerfully regarded forty years after His resurrection. (Matthew 24:20.)
40. The pious women who had been with Jesus carefully kept the seventh day after His death. (Luke 23:56.)
41. Thirty years after Christ’s resurrection, the Holy Spirit’ expressly calls it “the Sabbath day,” (Acts 13:14.)
42. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, called it the “Sabbath day” in A.D. 45. (Acts 13:27.) Did not Paul know? Or shall we believe modern teachers, who affirm that it ceased to be the Sabbath at the resurrection of Christ?
43. Luke, the inspired Christian historian, writing as late as A.D. 62, calls it the “Sabbath day.” (Acts 13:44.)
44. The Gentile converts called it the Sabbath. (Acts 13:42.)
45. In the great Christian council, A.D. 49. In the presence of the apostles and thousands of disciples, James calls it the “Sabbath day.” (Acts 15:21.)
46. It was customary to hold prayer meetings upon that day. (Acts 16:13.)
47. Paul read the Scriptures in public meetings on that day. (Acts 17:2-3.)
48. It was his custom to preach upon that day. (Acts 17:2-3.)
49. The Book of Acts alone gives a record of his holding eighty-four meetings upon that day. (See Acts 13:14, 44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4. 11.)
50. There was never any dispute between the Christians and the Jews about the Sabbath day. This is proof that the Christians still observed the same day that the Jews did.
51. In all their accusations against Paul, they never charged him with disregarding the Sabbath day. Why did they not, if he did not keep it?
52. But Paul himself expressly declared that he had kept the law. “Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple,nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.” Acts 25:8. How could this be true if he had not kept the Sabbath?
53. The Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament fifty-nine times, and always with respect, bearing the same title it had in the Old Testament, “the Sabbath day.”
54. Not a word is said anywhere in the New Testament about the Sabbath’s being abolished, done away, changed, or anything of the kind.
55. God has never given permission to any man to work upon it. Reader, by what authority do you use - the seventh day for common labor?
56. No Christian of the New Testament, either before or after the resurrection, ever did ordinary work upon the seventh day. Find one case of that kind, and we will yield the question. Why should modern Christians do differently from Bible Christians?
57. There is no record that God has ever removed His blessing or sanctification from the seventh day.
58. As the Sabbath was kept in Eden before the fall, so it will be observed eternally in the new earth after the restitution. (Isaiah 66:22-23.)
59. The seventh-day Sabbath was an important part of the law of God, as it came from His own mouth, and was written by His own finger upon stone at Sinai. (See Exodus 20.) When Jesus began His work, He expressly declared that He had not come to destroy the law. “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.” Matthew 5:17
60. Jesus severely condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites for pretending to love God, while at the same tune they made void one of the Ten Commandments by their tradition. The keeping of Sunday is only a tradition of men.
61. The very first thing recorded In the Bible is work done on Sunday, the first day of the week. (Genesis l: l-5.) The Creator Himself did this. If God made the earth on Sunday, can it be wicked for us to work on Sunday?
62. God commands men to work upon the first day of the week. (Exodus 20:8-11.) Is it wrong to obey God?
63. None of the patriarchs ever kept it.
64. None of the holy prophets ever kept it.
65. By the express command of-God, His holy people used the first day of the week as a common working day for 4,000 years, at least.
66. God Himself calls it a “working” day. (Ezekiel 46:1.)
67. God did not rest upon it.
68. He never blessed it.
69. Christ did not rest upon it.
70. Jesus was a carpenter (Mark 6:3), and worked at His trade until He was thirty years old. He kept the Sabbath and worked six days in the week, as all admit. Hence He did many a hard day’s work on Sunday.
71. The apostles worked upon it during the same time.
72. The apostles never rested upon it.
73. Christ never blessed it.
74. It has never been blessed by any divine authority.
75. It has never been sanctified.
76. No law was ever given to enforce the keeping of it, hence it is no transgression to work upon it. “Where no law
is, there is no transgression.” Romans 4:15 (See also 1 John 3:4.)
77. The New Testament nowhere forbids work to be done on it.
78. No penalty is provided for its violation.
79. No blessing is promised for its observance.
80. No regulation is given as to how it ought to be observed. Would this be so if the Lord wished us to keep it?
81. It is never called the Christian Sabbath.
82. It is never called the Sabbath day at all.
83. It is never called the Lord’s day.
84. It is never called even a rest day.
85. No sacred title whatever is applied to it. Then why should we call it holy?
86. It is simply called “first day of the week.”
87. Jesus never-mentioned it in any way, never took its name upon His lips, so far as the record shows.
88. The word Sunday never occurs in the Bible at all.
89. Neither God, Christ, nor inspired men ever said one word in favour of Sunday as a holy day.
90. The first day of the week is mentioned only eight times in all the New Testament. (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2,9;
Luke 24:1; John 20:1, 19; Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2.)
91. Six of these texts refer to the same first day of the week.
92. Paul directed the saints to look over their secular affairs on that day. (1Corinthians 16:2.)
93. In all the New Testament we have a record of only one religious meeting held upon that day, and even this was a night meeting. (Acts 20:5-12.)
94. There is not intimation that they ever held a meeting upon it before or after that.
95. It was not their custom to meet on that day.
96. There was no requirement to break bread on that day.
97. We have an account of only one instance in which it was done. (Acts 20:7.)
98. That was done in the night-after midnight. (Verses 7-11.) Jesus celebrated it on Thursday evening (Luke 22),
and the disciples sometimes did it every day (Acts 2:42-46.)
99. The Bible nowhere says that the first day of the week commemorates the resurrection of Christ. This is a tradition of men, which contradicts the law of God. (Matthew 15:1-9.) Baptism commemorates the burial and resurrection of Jesus. (Romans 6:3-5.)
100. Finally, the New Testament is totally silent with regard to any change of the Sabbath day or any sacredness for the first day.
101. The 7th day Sabbath was a sign of the FINISHED work of creation before the fall of mankind and given to mankind by God so it is impossible to be a SHADOW which is for something that is not finished After the fall of mankind (Mark 2:27)
102. The 7th day Sabbath is the Lord's Day (see Matt 12:8)
(source: most of the above is reprinted tract from the Review and Herald 1885)
Ok hope this can be a help to you
God bless you
I just woke up now. Its so nice to chat with you. I think as Beta said earlier the verse you quoted above is only talking about the disciples having a meal together and sharing the word of God. It says nothing about us not having to keep God's 7th Day Sabbath Holy like God commanded us to (Ex 20:8-11). In fact there is not one verse in the entire bible that says we do not need to keep God's 7th Day Sabbath anymore. You may need to study your bible further. Building on from the last posts we shared together yesterday my time from 1157, 1160, 1166 and 1168, the scriptures and facts below should help you to see further that your interpretation of God's Word is is not consistent with the rest of the Bible.
1. After working the first six days of the week in creating this earth, the great God rested on the seventh day. (Genesis 2:1.3.)
2. This stamped that day as God’s rest day, or Sabbath day, as Sabbath day means rest day. To illustrate: When a person is born on a certain day, that day thus becomes his birthday. So when God rested upon the seventh day, that day became His rest, or Sabbath, day.
3. Therefore the seventh day must always be God’s Sabbath day. Can you change your birthday from the day on which you were born to one on which you were not born? No. Neither can you change God’s rest day to a day on which He did not rest. Hence the seventh day is still God’s Sabbath day.
4. The Creator blessed the seventh day. (Genesis 2:3.)
5. He sanctified the seventh day. (Exodus 20:11.)
6. He made it the Sabbath day in the Garden of Eden. (Genesis 2:1-3.)
7. It was made before the fall; hence it is not a type; for types were not introduced till after the fall.
8. Jesus says it was made for man (Mark 2:27), that is, for the race, as the word man is here unlimited; hence, for the Gentile as well as for the Jew.
9. It is a memorial of creation. (Exodus 20:11; 31:17.) Every time we rest upon the seventh day, as God did at creation, we commemorate that grand event.
10. It was given to Adam, the head of the human race. (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3.)
11. Hence through him, as our representative, to all nations. (Acts 17:26.)
12. It is’ not a Jewish institution, for it was made 2,300 years before ever there was a Jew.
13. The Bible never calls it the Jewish Sabbath, but always “the Sabbath of the Lord thy God.” Men should be cautious how they stigmatize God’s holy rest day.
14. Evident reference is made to the Sabbath and the seven-day week all, through the patriarchal age. (Genesis 2:1-3; 8:10-12; 29:27-28.etc.)
15. It was a part of God’s law before Sinai. (Exodus 16:4, 27-29.)
16. Then God placed it in the heart of His moral law. (Exodus 20:1-17.) Why did He place it there if it was not like the other nine precepts, which all admit to be immutable?
17. The seventh-day Sabbath was commanded by the voice of the living God. (Deuteronomy 4:12-13.)
18. Then He wrote the Commandment with His own finger. (Exodus 31:18.)
19. He engraved it in the enduring stone, indicating its imperishable nature. (Deuteronomy 5:22.)
20. It was sacredly preserved in the ark in the holy of holies. (Deuteronomy 10:1-5.)
21. God forbade work upon the Sabbath, even in the most hurrying times. (Exodus 34:21.)
22. God destroyed the Israelites in the wilderness because they profaned the Sabbath. (Ezekiel 20:12-13.)
23. It is the sign of the true God, by which we are to know Him from false gods. (Ezekiel 20:20.)
24. God promised that Jerusalem should stand forever if the Jews would keep the Sabbath (Jeremiah 17:24-25.)
25. He sent them into the Babylonish captivity for breaking it. (Nehemiah 13:18.)
26. He destroyed Jerusalem for its violation. (Jeremiah 17:27.)
27. God has pronounced a special blessing on all the Gentiles who will keep it. (Isaiah 56:6-7.)
28. This is in the prophecy, which refers wholly to the Christian dispensation. (See Isaiah 56.)
29. God has promised to bless all who keep the Sabbath. (Isaiah 56:2.)
30. The Lord requires us to call it “honourable.” (Isaiah 58:13.) Beware, ye who take delight in calling it the. “old
Jewish Sabbath,” “a yoke of bondage,” etc.
31. After the holy Sabbath has been trodden down “many generations,” it is to be restored in the last days. (Isaiah 58:12-13.)
32. All the holy prophets kept the seventh day.
33. When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life. (Luke 4:16; John 15:10.) Thus He followed
His Father’s example at creation. Shall we not be safe in following the example of both the Father and the Son?
34. The seventh day is the Lord’s Day. (See Revelation 1:10; Mark 2:28; Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 20:10.)
35. Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28), that is, to love and protect it, as the husband is the lord of the wife, to love and cherish her (1 Peter 3:6.)
36. He vindicated the Sabbath as a merciful institution designed for man’s good. (Mark 2:23-28.)
37. Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, He carefully taught how it should be observed. (Matthew 13:1-13.)
38. He taught His disciples that they should do nothing upon the Sabbath day but what was “lawful” (Matthew 12:12.)
39. He instructed His apostles that the Sabbath should be prayerfully regarded forty years after His resurrection. (Matthew 24:20.)
40. The pious women who had been with Jesus carefully kept the seventh day after His death. (Luke 23:56.)
41. Thirty years after Christ’s resurrection, the Holy Spirit’ expressly calls it “the Sabbath day,” (Acts 13:14.)
42. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, called it the “Sabbath day” in A.D. 45. (Acts 13:27.) Did not Paul know? Or shall we believe modern teachers, who affirm that it ceased to be the Sabbath at the resurrection of Christ?
43. Luke, the inspired Christian historian, writing as late as A.D. 62, calls it the “Sabbath day.” (Acts 13:44.)
44. The Gentile converts called it the Sabbath. (Acts 13:42.)
45. In the great Christian council, A.D. 49. In the presence of the apostles and thousands of disciples, James calls it the “Sabbath day.” (Acts 15:21.)
46. It was customary to hold prayer meetings upon that day. (Acts 16:13.)
47. Paul read the Scriptures in public meetings on that day. (Acts 17:2-3.)
48. It was his custom to preach upon that day. (Acts 17:2-3.)
49. The Book of Acts alone gives a record of his holding eighty-four meetings upon that day. (See Acts 13:14, 44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4. 11.)
50. There was never any dispute between the Christians and the Jews about the Sabbath day. This is proof that the Christians still observed the same day that the Jews did.
51. In all their accusations against Paul, they never charged him with disregarding the Sabbath day. Why did they not, if he did not keep it?
52. But Paul himself expressly declared that he had kept the law. “Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple,nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.” Acts 25:8. How could this be true if he had not kept the Sabbath?
53. The Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament fifty-nine times, and always with respect, bearing the same title it had in the Old Testament, “the Sabbath day.”
54. Not a word is said anywhere in the New Testament about the Sabbath’s being abolished, done away, changed, or anything of the kind.
55. God has never given permission to any man to work upon it. Reader, by what authority do you use - the seventh day for common labor?
56. No Christian of the New Testament, either before or after the resurrection, ever did ordinary work upon the seventh day. Find one case of that kind, and we will yield the question. Why should modern Christians do differently from Bible Christians?
57. There is no record that God has ever removed His blessing or sanctification from the seventh day.
58. As the Sabbath was kept in Eden before the fall, so it will be observed eternally in the new earth after the restitution. (Isaiah 66:22-23.)
59. The seventh-day Sabbath was an important part of the law of God, as it came from His own mouth, and was written by His own finger upon stone at Sinai. (See Exodus 20.) When Jesus began His work, He expressly declared that He had not come to destroy the law. “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.” Matthew 5:17
60. Jesus severely condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites for pretending to love God, while at the same tune they made void one of the Ten Commandments by their tradition. The keeping of Sunday is only a tradition of men.
61. The very first thing recorded In the Bible is work done on Sunday, the first day of the week. (Genesis l: l-5.) The Creator Himself did this. If God made the earth on Sunday, can it be wicked for us to work on Sunday?
62. God commands men to work upon the first day of the week. (Exodus 20:8-11.) Is it wrong to obey God?
63. None of the patriarchs ever kept it.
64. None of the holy prophets ever kept it.
65. By the express command of-God, His holy people used the first day of the week as a common working day for 4,000 years, at least.
66. God Himself calls it a “working” day. (Ezekiel 46:1.)
67. God did not rest upon it.
68. He never blessed it.
69. Christ did not rest upon it.
70. Jesus was a carpenter (Mark 6:3), and worked at His trade until He was thirty years old. He kept the Sabbath and worked six days in the week, as all admit. Hence He did many a hard day’s work on Sunday.
71. The apostles worked upon it during the same time.
72. The apostles never rested upon it.
73. Christ never blessed it.
74. It has never been blessed by any divine authority.
75. It has never been sanctified.
76. No law was ever given to enforce the keeping of it, hence it is no transgression to work upon it. “Where no law
is, there is no transgression.” Romans 4:15 (See also 1 John 3:4.)
77. The New Testament nowhere forbids work to be done on it.
78. No penalty is provided for its violation.
79. No blessing is promised for its observance.
80. No regulation is given as to how it ought to be observed. Would this be so if the Lord wished us to keep it?
81. It is never called the Christian Sabbath.
82. It is never called the Sabbath day at all.
83. It is never called the Lord’s day.
84. It is never called even a rest day.
85. No sacred title whatever is applied to it. Then why should we call it holy?
86. It is simply called “first day of the week.”
87. Jesus never-mentioned it in any way, never took its name upon His lips, so far as the record shows.
88. The word Sunday never occurs in the Bible at all.
89. Neither God, Christ, nor inspired men ever said one word in favour of Sunday as a holy day.
90. The first day of the week is mentioned only eight times in all the New Testament. (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2,9;
Luke 24:1; John 20:1, 19; Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2.)
91. Six of these texts refer to the same first day of the week.
92. Paul directed the saints to look over their secular affairs on that day. (1Corinthians 16:2.)
93. In all the New Testament we have a record of only one religious meeting held upon that day, and even this was a night meeting. (Acts 20:5-12.)
94. There is not intimation that they ever held a meeting upon it before or after that.
95. It was not their custom to meet on that day.
96. There was no requirement to break bread on that day.
97. We have an account of only one instance in which it was done. (Acts 20:7.)
98. That was done in the night-after midnight. (Verses 7-11.) Jesus celebrated it on Thursday evening (Luke 22),
and the disciples sometimes did it every day (Acts 2:42-46.)
99. The Bible nowhere says that the first day of the week commemorates the resurrection of Christ. This is a tradition of men, which contradicts the law of God. (Matthew 15:1-9.) Baptism commemorates the burial and resurrection of Jesus. (Romans 6:3-5.)
100. Finally, the New Testament is totally silent with regard to any change of the Sabbath day or any sacredness for the first day.
101. The 7th day Sabbath was a sign of the FINISHED work of creation before the fall of mankind and given to mankind by God so it is impossible to be a SHADOW which is for something that is not finished After the fall of mankind (Mark 2:27)
102. The 7th day Sabbath is the Lord's Day (see Matt 12:8)
(source: most of the above is reprinted tract from the Review and Herald 1885)
Ok hope this can be a help to you
God bless you
The reason I can not accept what Jackson123 and Grace777x70 and the likes say is simple.
They make the second witness NT Disagree with the first witness OT. That make God disagree with himself as I see it.
For me the scripture has to harmonise and agree as it all is form the same source/Holy Spirit.
So when someone comes on here as gives a new testament saying to suggest that the OT does not mean what it says I can't buy into it.
There is not a single place in the NT where the writers disagree with the teachings of the OT. They in fact use them to prove their points. That can be seen by any who read them.
There are a whole lot of what ifs used to ignore the reality of the matter. But like I said none of them when it comes down to it can follow the example of Jesus and the NT writers who were able to back up all there teachings by the OT.
Why am I writing this? For their benefit so that at very least they may understand why I don't believe what they are selling. Its not stubbornness or anything like that. I just have to see evidence form the word of God.
I don't teach anything that I can't verify from the OT.
I don't think circumcision matters because the OT shows it would not when Messiah comes. Paul just shows how the OT shows that.
I don't sacrifice because the OT shows that sacrifices would cease at the coming of the messiah.
I don't bother with priesthood of Aaron because the OT shows there would be a change of priesthood.
I don't obey every law given to Israel because the OT shows which ones were eternal and which ones were for only them at that time.
I don't decide on my own personal opinion I let scripture instruct me as Paul said that is what the OT is for:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I keep the Sabbath because the OT teaches that it is still in effect even when we live in heaven. it also teaches that gentiles will keep it after the messiah is manifest.
So when I read NT writers backing up their teachings with OT and then see these guys use the NT to say things that are apposed to what the OT teaches I see error straight away.
When these guys are challenged to simply do what the NT writers did and show that the Sabbath would change or go away after messiah they can't do it. They can not do what the Holy Spirit led the NT writers to do.
Thus I cannot accept their views as they are most clearly their own ideas red into what Paul says.
There seems to be a stubborn resistance also.
They wont even acknowledge that there are two types of Sabbaths mentioned in the OT. Because to acknowledge it means they have to prove that Paul meant the 7th day Sabbath. But they can't so they ignore what Scripture says.
Thats how I see it.
They make the second witness NT Disagree with the first witness OT. That make God disagree with himself as I see it.
For me the scripture has to harmonise and agree as it all is form the same source/Holy Spirit.
So when someone comes on here as gives a new testament saying to suggest that the OT does not mean what it says I can't buy into it.
There is not a single place in the NT where the writers disagree with the teachings of the OT. They in fact use them to prove their points. That can be seen by any who read them.
There are a whole lot of what ifs used to ignore the reality of the matter. But like I said none of them when it comes down to it can follow the example of Jesus and the NT writers who were able to back up all there teachings by the OT.
Why am I writing this? For their benefit so that at very least they may understand why I don't believe what they are selling. Its not stubbornness or anything like that. I just have to see evidence form the word of God.
I don't teach anything that I can't verify from the OT.
I don't think circumcision matters because the OT shows it would not when Messiah comes. Paul just shows how the OT shows that.
I don't sacrifice because the OT shows that sacrifices would cease at the coming of the messiah.
I don't bother with priesthood of Aaron because the OT shows there would be a change of priesthood.
I don't obey every law given to Israel because the OT shows which ones were eternal and which ones were for only them at that time.
I don't decide on my own personal opinion I let scripture instruct me as Paul said that is what the OT is for:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I keep the Sabbath because the OT teaches that it is still in effect even when we live in heaven. it also teaches that gentiles will keep it after the messiah is manifest.
So when I read NT writers backing up their teachings with OT and then see these guys use the NT to say things that are apposed to what the OT teaches I see error straight away.
When these guys are challenged to simply do what the NT writers did and show that the Sabbath would change or go away after messiah they can't do it. They can not do what the Holy Spirit led the NT writers to do.
Thus I cannot accept their views as they are most clearly their own ideas red into what Paul says.
There seems to be a stubborn resistance also.
They wont even acknowledge that there are two types of Sabbaths mentioned in the OT. Because to acknowledge it means they have to prove that Paul meant the 7th day Sabbath. But they can't so they ignore what Scripture says.
Thats how I see it.
Still you try to deceive the brethren and bring them under the curse!
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Col 2:16-17
If you wish to observe the Sabbath - that is for your own conscience - but you are trying to persuade believers that they are obliged to keep the law and that Sabbath-keeping is part of their obligation before Christ.
Col 2:16 makes it plain as day that NO ONE is obliged to keep the Sabbath, much less coerce others into keeping it!
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[e] 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”[f] 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”[g]
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[h]), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Gal 3:10-14
As for observance of the law, it matter little what selection and sub-selection of the law you wish to foist on the brethren the only end for that is the curse - and the condemnation that the curse brings.
Jesus Christ became that curse for us Gal 3:13, so we are not under that curse - yet you seek to re-establish the authority of the law over us again that we would be cursed and condemned anew!
No amount of tap-dancing and sophistry of words will convince those who are convinced of this:
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree” Gal 3:13
Gal 3:11 absolutely establishes the truth of the matter:
11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Gal 3:11
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Col 2:16-17
If you wish to observe the Sabbath - that is for your own conscience - but you are trying to persuade believers that they are obliged to keep the law and that Sabbath-keeping is part of their obligation before Christ.
Col 2:16 makes it plain as day that NO ONE is obliged to keep the Sabbath, much less coerce others into keeping it!
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[e] 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”[f] 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”[g]
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[h]), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Gal 3:10-14
As for observance of the law, it matter little what selection and sub-selection of the law you wish to foist on the brethren the only end for that is the curse - and the condemnation that the curse brings.
Jesus Christ became that curse for us Gal 3:13, so we are not under that curse - yet you seek to re-establish the authority of the law over us again that we would be cursed and condemned anew!
No amount of tap-dancing and sophistry of words will convince those who are convinced of this:
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree” Gal 3:13
Gal 3:11 absolutely establishes the truth of the matter:
11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Gal 3:11
Hello GraceNpeace,
Nice to see you here. I guess you have come in a little late as your posts have already been addressed. If you believe they have not been addressed. Please could you tell us from God's Word why posts 1157, 1160, 1166, 1168, 1183 and 1184 do not show that you do not have an incorrect interpretation of God's Word? There is close to around 200+ scriptures in these posts that are the opposite to your interpretation of Col 2:17.
I look forward to hearing you answer each of these posts from God's Word and if you cannot why do you not believe God? Ok have to go out now but will be back latter
God bless you
Nice to see you here. I guess you have come in a little late as your posts have already been addressed. If you believe they have not been addressed. Please could you tell us from God's Word why posts 1157, 1160, 1166, 1168, 1183 and 1184 do not show that you do not have an incorrect interpretation of God's Word? There is close to around 200+ scriptures in these posts that are the opposite to your interpretation of Col 2:17.
I look forward to hearing you answer each of these posts from God's Word and if you cannot why do you not believe God? Ok have to go out now but will be back latter
God bless you
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I went back to the first post mentioned, surprise, surprise written by you!
The points you make start with a false assertion about Genesis chapter 2 and get worse from there!
I know you so much want everybody back in their box with the curse of the law over them!
How you must hate the apostle Paul, in particular, for being so blunt and unambiguous for stating over and over again, that the law is no longer binding - and this includes Sabbath-keeping.
The New Covenant makes it very clear that our Sabbath rest is Jesus Christ Himself - not some day of the week!
I know you have been educated well by your cult to use all sorts of tactics, including emotional manipulation, in your arguments but I will not respond to this: "if you cannot why do you not believe God?".
The points you make start with a false assertion about Genesis chapter 2 and get worse from there!
I know you so much want everybody back in their box with the curse of the law over them!
How you must hate the apostle Paul, in particular, for being so blunt and unambiguous for stating over and over again, that the law is no longer binding - and this includes Sabbath-keeping.
The New Covenant makes it very clear that our Sabbath rest is Jesus Christ Himself - not some day of the week!
I know you have been educated well by your cult to use all sorts of tactics, including emotional manipulation, in your arguments but I will not respond to this: "if you cannot why do you not believe God?".
There is no hypocrisy certainly!
As for insulting - who is doing the insulting?
The one who is suggesting believers turn their back on their salvation, or, the one who defends salvation by grace through faith?
I make it very clear that if someone wishes to observe the Sabbath it is a matter for their own conscience.
Trying to encourage others to do the same - in clear contravention of the word of God is entirely another!
As for insulting - who is doing the insulting?
The one who is suggesting believers turn their back on their salvation, or, the one who defends salvation by grace through faith?
I make it very clear that if someone wishes to observe the Sabbath it is a matter for their own conscience.
Trying to encourage others to do the same - in clear contravention of the word of God is entirely another!
Who is the Lord of the Sabbath, God the Father or God the Son?
Who filled the MAN Jesus [The body that God had prepared for his son] with his Spirit
Who is HE, who will judge the whole world with justice for one thousand years, God the Father or God the Son?
It is written in Acts 17: 31; "For HE [GOD] has fixed a day in which He will judge the whole world with Justice by means of a MAN HE has CHOSEN. HE has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death."
What DAY has the Lord fixed in which he shall judge the whole world with Justice?
And who was the MAN that he raised from death, who by means HE [GOD] will judge the whole world with justice?
Who filled the MAN Jesus [The body that God had prepared for his son] with his Spirit
Who is HE, who will judge the whole world with justice for one thousand years, God the Father or God the Son?
It is written in Acts 17: 31; "For HE [GOD] has fixed a day in which He will judge the whole world with Justice by means of a MAN HE has CHOSEN. HE has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death."
What DAY has the Lord fixed in which he shall judge the whole world with Justice?
And who was the MAN that he raised from death, who by means HE [GOD] will judge the whole world with justice?
Up until about eight years ago, I too, was what you would consider a Seventh Day observer (though not to be confused with a Seventh Day Adventist). And a strict one at that. So strict that I virtually ceased in any activity that could be construed as “work.” However, it wasn't until some time down the road that I heard a sermon from Jim McClarty entitled “The Irresistibility of God.” It rang to my ears, and brought such joy. It revamped everything.
I would like to point out a couple different things. But before that, let me just say that it takes true growth, and maturity to understand what I'm about to say.
Neither was the OT Law abolished, nor are Christians bound by it. We have something greater than the Law. Christians have what the Law could not achieve.
You see, it wasn't until the crucifixion that the new covenant took effect. Thus, while Jesus walked this earth the old covenant was still in force.
When a person is born again, they achieve the rest that Israel failed to achieve because of their unbelief, not in observing the commandments of the Law or observing a particular day, but in resting in the finished work of Christ. He is the true Sabbath rest – “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.”
Jesus is the perfect reflection of the Law, and without Him we are nothing but the perfect deviation of the Law. To quote Ravi Zachariah, “You can look at a mirror and find that your face is dirty, but you don't go and rub your face on the mirror to clean it.”
I would like to point out a couple different things. But before that, let me just say that it takes true growth, and maturity to understand what I'm about to say.
Neither was the OT Law abolished, nor are Christians bound by it. We have something greater than the Law. Christians have what the Law could not achieve.
You see, it wasn't until the crucifixion that the new covenant took effect. Thus, while Jesus walked this earth the old covenant was still in force.
“For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood.” (Hebrews 9.13–17)
Paul very much distinguishes between the “ministry of death, carved in letters on stone,” as that which once had glory, and the “ministry of the Spirit,” which surpasses it in glory (2 Corinthians 3). His point being that while Christians are not bound by the letter of the law, God has written on their hearts. The Spirit will guide, and restrain. They will no longer do what is “required” of them, but will live in accordance with their new nature. It’s called being “born again.” Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood.” (Hebrews 9.13–17)
When a person is born again, they achieve the rest that Israel failed to achieve because of their unbelief, not in observing the commandments of the Law or observing a particular day, but in resting in the finished work of Christ. He is the true Sabbath rest – “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.”
Jesus is the perfect reflection of the Law, and without Him we are nothing but the perfect deviation of the Law. To quote Ravi Zachariah, “You can look at a mirror and find that your face is dirty, but you don't go and rub your face on the mirror to clean it.”
Hi graceNpeace,
All I am hearing from you in the post above is lots of false accusations and man made opinions. All I have done is share the Word of God with you and others in relation to some scriptures you quoted from posts 1157, 1160, 1166, 1168 and 1183. If I have made false assertions in any of these posts I am happy to hear back from you as to what they are. I study God's Word for myself as I hope everyone else does here as well.
If you cant answer the above posts I have provided from God's Word why do you feel you need to be angry at me for sharing God's Word with you? It is not me your angry with my friend it is God's Word.
Like I said earlier, I look forward to hearing your answers to each of the posts provided above as to your claims of false assertions from God's Word. If you cannot answer these posts, then the question still remains, why do you not believe God? All of our opinions do not matter, only God's Word matters and God's Sheep hear His voice.
God bless you
All I am hearing from you in the post above is lots of false accusations and man made opinions. All I have done is share the Word of God with you and others in relation to some scriptures you quoted from posts 1157, 1160, 1166, 1168 and 1183. If I have made false assertions in any of these posts I am happy to hear back from you as to what they are. I study God's Word for myself as I hope everyone else does here as well.
If you cant answer the above posts I have provided from God's Word why do you feel you need to be angry at me for sharing God's Word with you? It is not me your angry with my friend it is God's Word.
Like I said earlier, I look forward to hearing your answers to each of the posts provided above as to your claims of false assertions from God's Word. If you cannot answer these posts, then the question still remains, why do you not believe God? All of our opinions do not matter, only God's Word matters and God's Sheep hear His voice.
God bless you
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When we read the teachings of the Apostle Paul, we have to remember that we are dealing with an individual that is "super smart" 
. He was considered a genius by his peers, because when knowing the history of the time he was student of Gamaliel who wouldn't have accepted anybody but the best of the best to be his student. When Paul tells us this he is not bragging he is giving us his CV, his accomplishments so to speak. So Paul knew the OT inside out and most likely all of the Jewish laws. He most likely didn't need a Bible to recite the law, they knew it by heart.
Now you might say "thank you for the history lesson Gandalf and what is your point?". The point is Paul understood the law better than most. Most likely he kept it day after day, thinking this is my salvation.... until one day he met the Rabbi of the rabbis on his way to Damascus. What a meeting it must have been. Within seconds everything that Paul thought he knew was ripped away from him like a band aid. A truly life changing experience. Paul then realised by keeping the law without Christ is actually nothing but empty works.
If we say that "The New Covenant makes it very clear that our Sabbath rest is Jesus Christ Himself - not some day of the week!" I can also argue that I can now go out to my local shopping centre and kill people because Jesus said that death have no hold on him, or I can sleep with my neighbours wife because we are no the bride of Christ and all sins are forgiven. Maybe I don't even have to respect my earthly father or my elders because I know that God is my Father and when I have respect for Him, I am ok.
. He was considered a genius by his peers, because when knowing the history of the time he was student of Gamaliel who wouldn't have accepted anybody but the best of the best to be his student. When Paul tells us this he is not bragging he is giving us his CV, his accomplishments so to speak. So Paul knew the OT inside out and most likely all of the Jewish laws. He most likely didn't need a Bible to recite the law, they knew it by heart. Now you might say "thank you for the history lesson Gandalf and what is your point?". The point is Paul understood the law better than most. Most likely he kept it day after day, thinking this is my salvation.... until one day he met the Rabbi of the rabbis on his way to Damascus. What a meeting it must have been. Within seconds everything that Paul thought he knew was ripped away from him like a band aid. A truly life changing experience. Paul then realised by keeping the law without Christ is actually nothing but empty works.
If we say that "The New Covenant makes it very clear that our Sabbath rest is Jesus Christ Himself - not some day of the week!" I can also argue that I can now go out to my local shopping centre and kill people because Jesus said that death have no hold on him, or I can sleep with my neighbours wife because we are no the bride of Christ and all sins are forgiven. Maybe I don't even have to respect my earthly father or my elders because I know that God is my Father and when I have respect for Him, I am ok.
When we read the teachings of the Apostle Paul, we have to remember that we are dealing with an individual that is "super smart" . He was considered a genius by his peers, because when knowing the history of the time he was student of Gamaliel who wouldn't have accepted anybody but the best of the best to be his student. When Paul tells us this he is not bragging he is giving us his CV, his accomplishments so to speak. So Paul knew the OT inside out and most likely all of the Jewish laws. He most likely didn't need a Bible to recite the law, they knew it by heart.
Now you might say "thank you for the history lesson Gandalf and what is your point?". The point is Paul understood the law better than most. Most likely he kept it day after day, thinking this is my salvation.... until one day he met the Rabbi of the rabbis on his way to Damascus. What a meeting it must have been. Within seconds everything that Paul thought he knew was ripped away from him like a band aid. A truly life changing experience. Paul then realised by keeping the law without Christ is actually nothing but empty works.
If we say that "The New Covenant makes it very clear that our Sabbath rest is Jesus Christ Himself - not some day of the week!" I can also argue that I can now go out to my local shopping centre and kill people because Jesus said that death have no hold on him, or I can sleep with my neighbours wife because we are no the bride of Christ and all sins are forgiven. Maybe I don't even have to respect my earthly father or my elders because I know that God is my Father and when I have respect for Him, I am ok.
. He was considered a genius by his peers, because when knowing the history of the time he was student of Gamaliel who wouldn't have accepted anybody but the best of the best to be his student. When Paul tells us this he is not bragging he is giving us his CV, his accomplishments so to speak. So Paul knew the OT inside out and most likely all of the Jewish laws. He most likely didn't need a Bible to recite the law, they knew it by heart. Now you might say "thank you for the history lesson Gandalf and what is your point?". The point is Paul understood the law better than most. Most likely he kept it day after day, thinking this is my salvation.... until one day he met the Rabbi of the rabbis on his way to Damascus. What a meeting it must have been. Within seconds everything that Paul thought he knew was ripped away from him like a band aid. A truly life changing experience. Paul then realised by keeping the law without Christ is actually nothing but empty works.
If we say that "The New Covenant makes it very clear that our Sabbath rest is Jesus Christ Himself - not some day of the week!" I can also argue that I can now go out to my local shopping centre and kill people because Jesus said that death have no hold on him, or I can sleep with my neighbours wife because we are no the bride of Christ and all sins are forgiven. Maybe I don't even have to respect my earthly father or my elders because I know that God is my Father and when I have respect for Him, I am ok.
If that isn't the point you're trying to make, then please clarify, because I'm having a difficult time understanding what it is you're trying to communicate here. If it is the point, then you miss graceNpeace's point entirely, and would refer you to my post above, where I briefly touch on this.
Hi williamjordan,
So nice to meet you here. I don’t have any problem with the majority of your 1[SUP]st[/SUP] post. This last part of your post in red however above is not clear to me. Are you saying that the Law of God is no longer needed? Maybe I am reading it wrong. Please forgive me if this is the case.
The “ministration of death” that you referred to is absolutely God’s Law (2Cor 3:7) because it gives us the knowledge of sin and tells us that the wages of sin is death hence the description “ministration of death” Other verses saying the same thing can be found in other parts of God’s Word. (e.g. Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4).
The New Covenant is God’s Law now written on the believers Heart instead of stone through the operation of God so that the Christian does not have to live in sin any longer. The new covenant is obedience to God’s Law through love to God and our neighbor (Heb 8:10-12; Matt 22:40). Jesus says “Whosoever commits sin is a servant of sin.” And “If the son shall set you free you shall be free indeed (John 8:34-36). The new covenant is salvation from sin and freedom from the power of sin to follow Jesus.
This is only achieved as we by Faith have complete dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it will do. Only here God can work in us to both will and to do of His own good pleasure (Phil 2:13). It is only through God’s Law that we can ever be brought to this place because through the Law is the knowledge of sin. It shows us that all we can do without God is fail and sin. It is our school master to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by Faith (Gal 3:24) It is God’s great standard of righteousness. (Ps 119:172).
If there is no Law then there is no knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4) if there is no knowledge of sin then there is no need of a Saviour. If there is no Saviour then we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost.
“For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.” (Rom 2:12). This is why Jesus says “If you love me, keep the commandments” (John 14:15) it’s only as we are born again that we can see the kingdom of God (John 3:3). And again “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1John 3:9). This is not saying the Christian cannot be tempted and fall into sin but the bible is clear we do not need to sin if we have complete faith and dependence in God’s Word (1Cor 10:13).
It is true that entering into God's rest is being Born again but it is more than this it also means to abide in Christ (John 15:2-5;10) This is a moment by moment walk with Jesus. If we are practicing known sin we will not enter into God's rest and we are not following Jesus. The rest that Jesus is talking about that explains why Israel in the wilderness did not enter into God's rest was because of their unbelief and sins (breaking God's Laws). It was because of disobedience to God that Israel could not enter into God's rest. (see Heb 3:7-19). As mentioned in earlier posts ( 1160 , 1166, 11 68, 1183 and 1184), the Word of God says that the 7th Day Sabbath commandment (Ex 20:8-11) given at the end of the creation week is a DAY that God had blessed and sanctified or made holy and NOT Jesus (Gen 2:1-3). It really does not make any sense that God would bless himself, sanctify himself and make himself holy as described in Gen 2:1-3 as God was already all these things to begin with.
We have our rest by being Born again and abiding in Christ but this rest is resting from sin by following Jesus.
"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matt 11:28)
What is the rest here talking about? (see the next verse)
"Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls." (Matt 11:29)
Gods rest is learning of Jesus through His Word and following what He says. Hope this is helpful
God bless you.
So nice to meet you here. I don’t have any problem with the majority of your 1[SUP]st[/SUP] post. This last part of your post in red however above is not clear to me. Are you saying that the Law of God is no longer needed? Maybe I am reading it wrong. Please forgive me if this is the case.
The “ministration of death” that you referred to is absolutely God’s Law (2Cor 3:7) because it gives us the knowledge of sin and tells us that the wages of sin is death hence the description “ministration of death” Other verses saying the same thing can be found in other parts of God’s Word. (e.g. Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4).
The New Covenant is God’s Law now written on the believers Heart instead of stone through the operation of God so that the Christian does not have to live in sin any longer. The new covenant is obedience to God’s Law through love to God and our neighbor (Heb 8:10-12; Matt 22:40). Jesus says “Whosoever commits sin is a servant of sin.” And “If the son shall set you free you shall be free indeed (John 8:34-36). The new covenant is salvation from sin and freedom from the power of sin to follow Jesus.
This is only achieved as we by Faith have complete dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it will do. Only here God can work in us to both will and to do of His own good pleasure (Phil 2:13). It is only through God’s Law that we can ever be brought to this place because through the Law is the knowledge of sin. It shows us that all we can do without God is fail and sin. It is our school master to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by Faith (Gal 3:24) It is God’s great standard of righteousness. (Ps 119:172).
If there is no Law then there is no knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4) if there is no knowledge of sin then there is no need of a Saviour. If there is no Saviour then we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost.
“For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.” (Rom 2:12). This is why Jesus says “If you love me, keep the commandments” (John 14:15) it’s only as we are born again that we can see the kingdom of God (John 3:3). And again “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1John 3:9). This is not saying the Christian cannot be tempted and fall into sin but the bible is clear we do not need to sin if we have complete faith and dependence in God’s Word (1Cor 10:13).
It is true that entering into God's rest is being Born again but it is more than this it also means to abide in Christ (John 15:2-5;10) This is a moment by moment walk with Jesus. If we are practicing known sin we will not enter into God's rest and we are not following Jesus. The rest that Jesus is talking about that explains why Israel in the wilderness did not enter into God's rest was because of their unbelief and sins (breaking God's Laws). It was because of disobedience to God that Israel could not enter into God's rest. (see Heb 3:7-19). As mentioned in earlier posts ( 1160 , 1166, 11 68, 1183 and 1184), the Word of God says that the 7th Day Sabbath commandment (Ex 20:8-11) given at the end of the creation week is a DAY that God had blessed and sanctified or made holy and NOT Jesus (Gen 2:1-3). It really does not make any sense that God would bless himself, sanctify himself and make himself holy as described in Gen 2:1-3 as God was already all these things to begin with.
We have our rest by being Born again and abiding in Christ but this rest is resting from sin by following Jesus.
"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matt 11:28)
What is the rest here talking about? (see the next verse)
"Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls." (Matt 11:29)
Gods rest is learning of Jesus through His Word and following what He says. Hope this is helpful
God bless you.
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I am not interested in debating pernickity detail with you because your whole premise is wrong!
There was no such thing as the Sabbath and Sabbath-observance prior to the institution of the law as given to Moses.
That is my reference to Genesis chapter 2.
The New Covenant does away with the law and its observance in the sense that Jesus Christ fulfilled its righteous requirements on our behalf.
Sabbath-observance, as with the rest of the law does not bring righteousness - only a curse and condemnation!
If you wish to observe the Sabbath that is a matter for you but it places you under an obligation to keep the whole law - and you, as with everyone else in history subject to the law will fail - that is why it is a curse and that is why you will be condemned. The fact that the law is holy and righteous will not matter - the law condemns you.
The law may bring you to Christ but it cannot take you any further!
There was no such thing as the Sabbath and Sabbath-observance prior to the institution of the law as given to Moses.
That is my reference to Genesis chapter 2.
The New Covenant does away with the law and its observance in the sense that Jesus Christ fulfilled its righteous requirements on our behalf.
Sabbath-observance, as with the rest of the law does not bring righteousness - only a curse and condemnation!
If you wish to observe the Sabbath that is a matter for you but it places you under an obligation to keep the whole law - and you, as with everyone else in history subject to the law will fail - that is why it is a curse and that is why you will be condemned. The fact that the law is holy and righteous will not matter - the law condemns you.
The law may bring you to Christ but it cannot take you any further!