The truth behind the Law

[beta]

So are you saying we are under grace but must keep the law too? If so, what law are you referring to? You mentioned the commandments and statutes. Are you saying the commandments are the law, the statutes or both? All those who state we must strive to keep the law perfectly must identify exactly what that law is? Otherwise, how can one follow what cannot be clearly identified?

I so agree with this ! it is because people are not clear which law they are talking about we have all these arguments, disagreements and confusion. I believe the 10 Comandments to be separate from the works of the law.
I have called for this clarification a few times and been told 'it is all Moses law and can not be separated. I have provided scripture clearly showing that GOD HIMSELF makes a separation/puts difference between the spiritual eternal 10 Commandments of God and the temporary physical works commandments given through Moses...Eph 2v15; Col2v14; What is your take on Ex 20 and Deut 5 and Lev 10v10. I am willing to be corrected.

 

[miknik5]

[h=2]

Re: The truth behind the Law[/h]

I'm sorry to have to repeat myself, but I have a problem with auto correct It never does what it is supposed to do


therefore i am I am reposting a post:

Rainrider,

in regards to your current post to me, Specifically the verses you mentioned when you expounded a portion of John 15:24 (and left out a very important part of it)

if if I hadnt done such miraculous signs among them that no one else could do, they would not be guilty. But as it is, they have seen everything I did, yet they still hate me and my Father.


It's interesting how you melded Matthew 16 with John 15 and tried to justify that Christ came to give signs and it's because of our lack of knowledge
(again, not sure I would have used that word) we can't see

I see sir
but I see something you missed in John 15:22 through 25

not to mention that JESUS was, prior to saying this, telling those who did believe in HIM that they must remain in HIM and that apart from HIM one can do nothing

so I am interested in understanding if you can explain the piece you missed in John 15:22 through 25 (in context to Matthew 22
THE WEDDING GARMENT) why CHRIST clearly said in John 15:22-25 (after telling those who believed in HIM by faith to REMAIN in HIM) "you need a cloke for your sins"

since GOD's WORD does not contradict HIS WORD​

 

[miknik5]

I would like to know how many on this forum believe we are saved only by grace through faith_________.....

How many believe it is by works following the law?____________....

How many believe it is by both the law and works?_____________.....

Please sign your name on the dotted line that pertains to you.

you can always create your own thread with a poll supplying these questions

 

[miknik5]

Back to John 15:22-25

Do all need this cloke first?
and if so, how can one receive this cloke for their sins?

 

[Dan_473]

When one makes the Law more complicated then it really is, they take a chance of losing sight of the true intent of the Law. This is the kind of thing that Yeshua faced from the Pharisee's, they had bent the law into something it was never meant to be. In doing so they made it so complex, thet when looked at from their teachings, it held no recognizable form of it's true reasoning.

Not trying to make any thing from what you posted, just using it as an example. It is the kind of reasoning that one would find in the Misnah. Most likely that would found coming from the House of Shmaya. Both houses would use extraneous arguments in their interpretation of Law. The end result, an interpretation that held no meaning from it's true intent. One should also work with care, and understanding when doing this.
As I do understand your point, I hope you will also understand that Sabbath is not so hard to follow. It has no hidden start time, nor dos it remain a constant. As with all Law, it does follow logic, and HaShem understands that when the Sunsets in any ton, that is the start of the day for that town.

the key I see is
'losing sight of the true intent of the Law.'


the true intent of the law is

to bring us to a place

where we see

that
the whole law is fulfilled in one word.

 

[miknik5]

the key I see is
'losing sight of the true intent of the Law.'


the true intent of the law is

to bring us to a place

where we see

that
the whole law is fulfilled in one word.

If you don't mind, what word is that

 

[Dan_473]

If you don't mind, what word is that

a good way to phrase it is

You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[miknik5]

a good way to phrase it is

You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

So if someone doesn't believe but does what is right and righteous before all men and shows no partiality or bias he can enter the kingdom of GOD?

 

[Dan_473]

So if someone doesn't believe but does what is right and righteous before all men and shows no partiality or bias he can enter the kingdom of GOD?

to those who have never heard the good news, but by patience in well-doing seek for glory, honor, and incorruptibility, God will give eternal life.

when such folks do hear the good news, they are immediately attracted to it.



is that what you're asking?

 

[miknik5]

to those who have never heard the good news, but by patience in well-doing seek for glory, honor, and incorruptibility, God will give eternal life.

when such folks do hear the good news, they are immediately attracted to it.



is that what you're asking?

Did you read only the first part of Romans 2 or all of Romans

Has GOD turned all over to disobedience?

or can a man on that day stand before GOD and profess himself when Romans also says all mouths will be silenced and the whole world held accountable to GOD


So sir on that day, who will declare themselves andvwhat they have done to warn eternal life?
But now a righteousness of GOD without the law is manifested?

what is that "righteousness"?

please expound Romans 2 and 3 together for full understanding

 

[Dan_473]

Did you read only the first part of Romans 2 or all of Romans

Has GOD turned all over to disobedience?

or can a man on that day stand before GOD and profess himself when Romans also says all mouths will be silenced and the whole world held accountable to GOD


So sir on that day, who will declare themselves andvwhat they have done to warn eternal life?
But now a righteousness of GOD without the law is manifested?

what is that "righteousness"?

please expound Romans 2 and 3 together for full understanding

I'm not sure what you're asking here


'Has GOD turned all over to disobedience?'

 

[Magenta]

So if someone doesn't believe but does what is right and righteous before all men and shows no partiality or bias he can enter the kingdom of GOD?

Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

So as you can see, the answer to your question is "No."

 

[beta]

a good way to phrase it is

You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

How about loving GOD first ?
Isn't that How Jesus put it - it being the first Commandment ? Mk 12v30

 

[miknik5]

Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

So as you can see, the answer to your question is "No."

So he can enter the kingdom of GOD
Even if he has not first been "baptized"?

 

[Rainrider]

Joefizz is saying both those that say it is only by grace through faith and those that say it is by works are right.

So are you saying we are under grace but must keep the law too? If so, I must also ask you the same questions: What law are you referring to? The commandments and statutes were mentioned.

For one to know what they must follow, they must first study Torah. For me to go through all ^13 laws in the OT, then go through all 1050 i the NT would take quit some time. Being as I know that I would be faced with also answering questions, that can be answered if one will simply study.

Are you saying the commandments are the law, the statutes or both? All those who state we must strive to keep the law perfectly must identify exactly what that law is? Otherwise, how can one follow what cannot be clearly identified? And how can we be saved if we cannot keep the law perfectly? Don't forget to explain what part the ceremonial laws have for us as well.

As I have maintained in all my post in regard to this same question, and have stated above. One must study, to find this answer. If a law is made for the Priest, then only they need follow it, if it is one for women, then men have no need of said law.

I doubt this debate will last another 1000 years.

Please forgive my use of metaphors. Had no clue it would ever be taken literal.

 

[Dan_473]

How about loving GOD first ?
Isn't that How Jesus put it - it being the first Commandment ? Mk 12v30

remember the train of thought, here

the key I see is
'losing sight of the true intent of the Law.'


the true intent of the law is

to bring us to a place

where we see

that
the whole law is fulfilled in one word.

If you don't mind, what word is that

a good way to phrase it is

You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[Rainrider]

Re: The truth behind the Law

I'm sorry to have to repeat myself, but I have a problem with auto correct It never does what it is supposed to do


therefore i am I am reposting a post:

Rainrider,

in regards to your current post to me, Specifically the verses you mentioned when you expounded a portion of John 15:24 (and left out a very important part of it)

if if I hadnt done such miraculous signs among them that no one else could do, they would not be guilty. But as it is, they have seen everything I did, yet they still hate me and my Father.


It's interesting how you melded Matthew 16 with John 15 and tried to justify that Christ came to give signs and it's because of our lack of knowledge
(again, not sure I would have used that word) we can't see

I see sir
but I see something you missed in John 15:22 through 25

not to mention that JESUS was, prior to saying this, telling those who did believe in HIM that they must remain in HIMand that apart from HIM one can do nothing

so I am interested in understanding if you can explain the piece you missed in John 15:22 through 25 (in context to Matthew 22
THE WEDDING GARMENT) why CHRIST clearly said in John 15:22-25 (after telling those who believed in HIM by faith to REMAIN in HIM) "you need a cloke for your sins"

since GOD's WORD does not contradict HIS WORD​

I have things in my life that do need my time as well as what I do on here. So can you please be kind and quote said post? I not the time to go hunting down post that could simply be quoted from the start to help show your point.
I have found many times that when one doesn't quote the post they are talking of, it may not even be there, and if it is, it does at times take the reading of may post. If you can please quote this it would save a lot of time. I read the last post I made to you, and it doesn't hold the passage you name here. As I didn't think I had used that in my post, I did look to see.
Thank you for your time in this mater.

 

[miknik5]

I have things in my life that do need my time as well as what I do on here. So can you please be kind and quote said post? I not the time to go hunting down post that could simply be quoted from the start to help show your point.
I have found many times that when one doesn't quote the post they are talking of, it may not even be there, and if it is, it does at times take the reading of may post. If you can please quote this it would save a lot of time. I read the last post I made to you, and it doesn't hold the passage you name here. As I didn't think I had used that in my post, I did look to see.
Thank you for your time in this mater.

If I were you sir, I wouldn't say that anymore:
"I have found many times......."


your ladt post to me , you couldn't find and follow?

 

[miknik5]

remember the train of thought, here

If we followed that train of thought sir, after hearing the TRUTH of THE GOSPEL, and salvation in CHRIST JESUS, what would be the very loving thing to do for your neighbor whom you are to love as your own soul?

 

[miknik5]

Dan, did you get to read romans 2 and 3 together yet?