Not By Works

[Ariel82]

Romans 4:1-4
Chapter 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.


Genesis 15:6


And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness (Abram)

My thoughts are that Abram believed God so much so that he packed his bags, left Ur.
He placed his faith in God which was credited as righteousness.

He saw the promise of God even though it had not yet been given.

We find during his time he got it wrong a few times yet he still had faith in God.

If memory serves me on one occasion when he lied about his wife, to Abimilech and said she was his sister we find that Abimelech wanted to take her.

God then steps in

Genesis 20:3-8


But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, “Indeed you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife.”
But Abimelech had not come near her; and he said, “Lord, will You slay a righteous nation also? Did he not say to me, “She is my sister’? And she, even she herself said, ‘He is my brother.’ In the integrity of my heart and innocence of my hands I have done this.”


And God said to him in a dream, “Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her. Now therefore, restore the man's wife; for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you shall live. But if you do not restore her, know that you shall surely die, you and all who are yours.”


So Abimelech rose early in the morning, called all his servants, and told all these things in their hearing; and the men were very much afraid.

All this and more before offering up Isaac.

Now why did he offer up Issac?

Because he had faith and placed his faith in God.

When we place our faith in Jesus, a true saving faith then actions will follow, they will consist of wrong actions but also good actions.

As we grow in Jesus the negatives will decrease and the positives increase.

We decrease and Jesus increases in us.

Just my simple thoughts.

I believe it's an example of how God walked with Abraham and taught him how to trust and have faith in Him. It didn't come natural for Abraham either but God tells us how he reinforced over and over that God is trustworthy even when Abraham disnt trust that God world protect him so lies about Sarah just being his sister and by omission...but his wife.

 

[Ariel82]

i think youll find billy hasnt truly let go and never will ....... damaged goods can be repaired billy lad so hows ya dog mate

Are you taking every thought into the obedience of Christ?

Cuz you might want to run this statement back through boot camp.

 

[Ariel82]

Mine is called "husband".

I call mine "Love"

 

[Ariel82]

Now I am curious. Does anyone disagree with the below statement?

"This is following Jesus - having complete dependence on what Christ alone has done for us to do those things He commanded us to do, because without Him we can do nothing" ?

 

[Ariel82]

Never have worn high heels in my entire life, never learned how. LOL.. I'd break my neck in stillettos, but I can wear the 90's style chunky wedge shoes. I'm a barefoot kinda girl, always have been..

Me too. I prefer going barefoot. Works out since we are 10 minutes from the beach.

Also I trip over air...heels would probably have me with broken limbs.

 

[JoDel]

Amen... to the root and heart issue. We all have them and Jesus is concerned with every one of them in EVERY ONE of US.

It is so important to my life that my relationship with Jesus, is rooted deep within Him. Rooted deeply in His love for me.
Deeper than any pain can reach, so as not to infect the root with grief. ~
Deeper than any lie from Satan can reach, so as not to poison the root with doubt. ~
Deeper than any tragedy of life can reach, so as not to corrupt the root with fear. ~
Deeper than any act of betrayal can reach, so as not to bruise the root with bitterness. ~
Deeper than any physical disease can reach, so as not to tear the root by hopelessness.~
Deeper than any mental illness can reach, so as not to drown the root by helplessness.~
Deep enough to withstand all the storms of life, never to be unearthed from the soil of His love.~ Let the tempest winds do their best! It is not MY strength they will meet… It is the strength of Jesus, “Whose voice the wind must obey”.~ The One Who Loves Me just as I am.


​

 

[stonesoffire]

I call mine "Love"

Agree...soft words break bones.

 

[PeterJens]

"This is following Jesus - having complete dependence on what Christ alone has done for us to do those things He commanded us to do, because without Him we can do nothing" ?

Now I am curious. Does anyone disagree with the below statement?

The statement sounds like it makes sense until you ask what it actually means.
"complete dependence" This implies there is a point of partial dependence

Why do I have a problem with this language?
1. Not biblical
2. So generic almost meaningless
3. Ignores basic life realities

How do we walk? We rely on muscle memory to kick in, and we start walking and it flows.
How do we talk? We rely on learnt words meanings etc and sentences come out.
How do we react to situations? We rely on learnt responses and experiences to cope with
95% of all interactions in life.

So most of what we are and do is actually learnt, programmed behaviour.
This means how we grow in the Spirit and in Christ is more than "dependency".

And what we do most of the time is actually irrespective of others, so we will always
be doing things, so the idea of "doing nothing" is meaningless.

So I cannot agree with this sentence because it does not say very much, is unclear and
imprecise, does not put the problems we face in putting to death the flesh and walking
in the Spirit, but it is a very religious statement which people will nod their heads to and
agree with, but no one really knows what they are agreeing to other than we need communion
with Christ to walk in the Spirit.

 

[Ariel82]

Actually walking is learning how to catch oneself from falling completely face first on the ground.

Talking is just a means of communication based upon words which represent symbols of reality in the world. However we have nonverbal ways to communicate too.

As for the accusation of being generic...well one can always add detail but the basic concept is there:

Do you believe that God empowers His children to do good works?

I also believe complete dependence upon Jesus and His power is an important part of becoming rooted in Jesus.

When we walk outside God's will, we start to rely on our own power and that ends badly for alone we aren't very strong. However with God all things are possible.

 

[oldethennew]

all hub and I desire to do is Love and serve Jesus Christ, to the best of our ability -
serve/love others as He has commands and leads -
and put behind/over-come our 'old-man' and become someone whom He loves
and approves of as His chosen children who only want to please Him and obey His Holy Commands...

it's quite the challenge, but one that we know we can and will achieve, if we put our whole
hearts into it...so far, He has greatly blessed us in our actions through our Love for Him...

 

[dcontroversal]

I am glad Jesus saves to the UTTERMOST and that he will NEVER leave me nor forsake me.....all based upon faith.......

 

[Zmouth]

Luke 8:13 - But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. The shallow ground hearer is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth.

IN CONTRAST, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."

People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and having "no root" do not experience real salvation. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root.." *Problem from the start. *Temporary shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start "has no root" represents rocky soil. *Then we see the results of this. Temporary shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief.

John 3:27
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Ever wonder why the Gospel is freely given? Because it was received from heaven then that is the way it is received by the sower.

Proverbs 23:23

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Matt 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.Luke 12:34

 

[PeterJens]

Actually walking is learning how to catch oneself from falling completely face first on the ground.

Talking is just a means of communication based upon words which represent symbols of reality in the world. However we have nonverbal ways to communicate too.

As for the accusation of being generic...well one can always add detail but the basic concept is there:

Do you believe that God empowers His children to do good works?

I also believe complete dependence upon Jesus and His power is an important part of becoming rooted in Jesus.

When we walk outside God's will, we start to rely on our own power and that ends badly for alone we aren't very strong. However with God all things are possible.

I think Jesus is very simple. Obey, try, work at it, work it through, take each issue and
puzzle with it and find why it is so hard or difficult. Bring it to Him and pray about it,
let it dwell in your heart and be in your thoughts night and day.

This is God speaking and telling us what to do. He is saying listen to my words and put
them into action. Respect every command of the law, work it through. Learn how to love
and understand your enemy. Do not dismiss them, but know them inside out and find out
how they are the same as everyone, and by chance on the other side.

Jesus is telling us one simple truth. The problem is within us, and our struggle is with ourselves
and not listening to the excuses, but pushing on to find love. One thing you will find about yourself
is you can agree 99% of everything, but one issue will be enough to throw in the towel.

Ironic that. One issue will defeat us, and we will claim it makes the whole effort pointless, but
really, it means we should fight through until it is 100% ok.

That has always been the narrow path, the carrying the cross, the patience, endurance, faithfulness,
the persistence, that wins the day. Jesus waited 30 years for the right time to start His ministry.
A ministry of only 3 years, but it has lasted 2000+ years in its impact.

The right time, the right words, the right people, Amen.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

I am glad Jesus saves to the UTTERMOST and that he will NEVER leave me nor forsake me.....all based upon faith.......

A BIG AMEN to that brother.......
"And I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."

 

[Stephen63]

Now I am curious. Does anyone disagree with the below statement?

It's incomplete.

And because it's incomplete, the variables of what it could mean is endless, meaning a cultist can MAKE it be whatever the reader wants it to be.

In a good christian reader's eye, it will mean something godly & good.

To the skeptic, they strive to see what the cultist is really saying that he won't say aloud because he knows they will reject it.

And you..... you know it's true, don't you?

It's the same way with CCM..... everyone sees "christian" music, instead of the double-meaning the enemy hids in it.

Satan knows a half-truth is far more destructive than a blatant lie.

He'll use christianeze any day.

 

[Ariel82]

I always thought the best tactic to a half truth is simply stating the second half that seems to be missing.

.Those who have honest hearts, will thank you and agree.

.the others will attack or get offended because they think you are attacking them.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I always thought the best tactic to a half truth is simply stating the second half that seems to be missing.

.Those who have honest hearts, will thank you and agree.

.the others will attack or get offended because they think you are attacking them.

how dare you say that
>: )

 

[dcontroversal]

A BIG AMEN to that brother.......
"And I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."

AMEN and that is what he promised to do....and being the BEGINNER and FINISHER of OUR faith......he will not fail......EVER!

 

[Stephen63]

I always thought the best tactic to a half truth is simply stating the second half that seems to be missing.

.Those who have honest hearts, will thank you and agree.

.the others will attack or get offended because they think you are attacking them.

I could have told G777 what the other half was to expose his tactics, & in the end look like an accusing enemy.

As soon as you confront with the truth, those exposed will immediately do one of two things:

1. Shut completely down & run to another thread to avoid confrontation (G777)
2. Take that half-truth another direction, & accuse you of all types of sinful & awful things. (dcon)

Tactics, plain & simple.

Tactics of using half-truths is to have a way to escape or excuse to confront, whichever they prefer.

What the readers don't understand is there's principles to determine who the tacticians are.

Naturally, worldly people use worldly methods. The mature christian depends on the Holy Spirit to help them. We are known by our fruits.

True christians usually aren't smart on their own..... "In our weakness He becomes strong."

Like in Acts when Stephen the deacon spoke to the Jews, they could not resist his wisdom.

Acts 6:10 (1)But they were unable to cope with the wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking. 11 (2)Then they secretly induced men to say, “We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and against God.” 12And they stirred up the people, the elders and the scribes, and they came up to him and dragged him away and brought him before the Council.

1. Sinners can't deal with it, so they 2. scheme together & falsely accuse the righteous of blasphemous things.

They will always use this tactic to try to save face, or manipulate the argument.

 

[willybob]

The preconceived notion of the not of works dilemma, aka (the peril of the old wine)

Any preconceived ideas that we think we have must be abandoned and desire the pure truth of scripture. Jesus said once one drinks straightway of the old wine (the preconceived traditions of man) he says the old is better….Pride of choice in what one believes is the stronghold of the old wine..So as a man believes, therefore he is, said Paul.

If a person believes he can’t be holy, and believes he will always be the Romans wretch, hence forth it becomes a preconceived truth in his mind, (the stronghold of inability and depravity). So in his mind he perceives it to be true, therefore it is, thus having a vale over the mind’s eye.

To come to grips with the truth of scripture through humility is damaging to the prideful, this is why Paul asked “if I tell you the truth does it offend you”? Or as Jesus asked “this is a hard saying who can hear it”? It’s hard for the ego to give it up and follow the truth..This is why one has to abandon all traditions of men to win Christ…
Abandon all superstations, and traditions of men (the old wine), and make ready to receive the new wine in a vessel fit for the Master’s use, by forming a new wine skin that is pliable and humble in that it is able to hold the new wine, lest it burst and all be lost on the ground, while continuing to perceive that it’s not of works. This is what the Pundits have been preaching ever since Martin Luther who coined the unbiblical term “faith alone”>how can that possibly be in error? After all it’s the bedrock of Churchianity?

Jesus asked “why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not what I say”?

Pride does not like to humble himself and admit what they believed to be true is in error, especially if it’s been an aged stronghold, it becomes very painful to let the pride of choice go…What comes in to play is this (you mean what I have believed in, and the choices I made are wrong?) Pride does not want to let that go, therefore the truth becomes a hard saying, because they will not reconsider what they believed is in error when plainly shown to them in the text..This is why Jesus hid His gospel from the proud, and spoke in parables because they didn’t have the spiritual eyes sight to recognize it, hence hoping to awaken their eyes and ears through carnal illustrations, in that they might be puzzled and desire to lean more, therefore the kingdom is hidden in plain sight. The hidden in plain sight nugget of truth is the gospel proclaimed unto holiness, a few can see it, but most can’t. thus, suffering death in the wilderness, forever learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth..