Not By Works

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Apr 30, 2016
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Actually I never thought you did. I didn't even see Stone at the end of your sentence in that post until someone pointed it out.

I think I know you by the way, from another site. Am I right?

That was addressed to Dcon? Well, see how things get misconstrued so easily!
Stone,

Actually, the last sentence about me not having a crush on YOU was meant for YOU
because Blue thinks I have a crush on YOU.

I mean, I know I'm a floozy, but I'm not THAT bad!

I said Dcon knows I'm just kidding around.

People should not be criticized and "attacked" just because they have a differing opinion.

As far as the other site, I don't know.
I am on another site.
Are we allowed to mention it??
I must say that if you use the same name, then no, I don't know you.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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An interesting fact about Abraham being declared righteous by God Himself is that he was declared to be righteous by God because Abraham "believed God " - 15 years before he "offered up Isaac".

His faith was completed as a result of already being declared righteous by God. Knowing the truth about what God says about us releases true faith to grow and be manifested. There is a false way of trying to create works in order to create and maintain righteousness. This is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

True righteousness which comes only from God's work in Christ always comes when we believe what God says is true. There are "fruits of righteousness" as James talks about which shows up in helping our fellow man in need but they do not create righteousness.

Being righteous in Christ comes first because of His work on the cross and resurrection. Getting this backwards creates a religion of self-righteousness and actually denies the work of Christ Himself.

Preach and teach the good news that Christ alone is our righteousness and then the fruit of His life will be manifested in "deeds of righteousness" as He bears His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace that our loving Father has for them.

We will see corresponding action or works that glorify God.
Romans 4:1-4
Chapter 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.


Genesis 15:6


And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness (Abram)

My thoughts are that Abram believed God so much so that he packed his bags, left Ur.
He placed his faith in God which was credited as righteousness.

He saw the promise of God even though it had not yet been given.

We find during his time he got it wrong a few times yet he still had faith in God.

If memory serves me on one occasion when he lied about his wife, to Abimilech and said she was his sister we find that Abimelech wanted to take her.

God then steps in

Genesis 20:3-8


But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, “Indeed you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife.”
But Abimelech had not come near her; and he said, “Lord, will You slay a righteous nation also? Did he not say to me, “She is my sister’? And she, even she herself said, ‘He is my brother.’ In the integrity of my heart and innocence of my hands I have done this.”


And God said to him in a dream, “Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her. Now therefore, restore the man's wife; for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you shall live. But if you do not restore her, know that you shall surely die, you and all who are yours.”


So Abimelech rose early in the morning, called all his servants, and told all these things in their hearing; and the men were very much afraid.

All this and more before offering up Isaac.

Now why did he offer up Issac?

Because he had faith and placed his faith in God.

When we place our faith in Jesus, a true saving faith then actions will follow, they will consist of wrong actions but also good actions.

As we grow in Jesus the negatives will decrease and the positives increase.

We decrease and Jesus increases in us.

Just my simple thoughts.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Romans 4:1-4
Chapter 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.


Genesis 15:6


And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness (Abram)

My thoughts are that Abram believed God so much so that he packed his bags, left Ur.
He placed his faith in God which was credited as righteousness.

He saw the promise of God even though it had not yet been given.

We find during his time he got it wrong a few times yet he still had faith in God.

If memory serves me on one occasion when he lied about his wife, to Abimilech and said she was his sister we find that Abimelech wanted to take her.

God then steps in

Genesis 20:3-8


But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, “Indeed you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife.”
But Abimelech had not come near her; and he said, “Lord, will You slay a righteous nation also? Did he not say to me, “She is my sister’? And she, even she herself said, ‘He is my brother.’ In the integrity of my heart and innocence of my hands I have done this.”


And God said to him in a dream, “Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her. Now therefore, restore the man's wife; for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you shall live. But if you do not restore her, know that you shall surely die, you and all who are yours.”


So Abimelech rose early in the morning, called all his servants, and told all these things in their hearing; and the men were very much afraid.

All this and more before offering up Isaac.

Now why did he offer up Issac?

Because he had faith and placed his faith in God.

When we place our faith in Jesus, a true saving faith then actions will follow, they will consist of wrong actions but also good actions.

As we grow in Jesus the negatives will decrease and the positives increase.

We decrease and Jesus increases in us.

Just my simple thoughts.
i love what God shows us through Abraham

his fath grew grew so much n his life, that had faith God was able to raise his child from the dead in his later years,

oh if we we could have half this faith.
 
J

JoDel

Guest
That way you can make SURE the person you talk to agrees and affirms what you saying..,,why doesn't everyone do it?


(this is said tongue in cheek and will probably be condemned by someone)
;) Only by those who have ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE OF HUMOR... :D
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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i love what God shows us through Abraham

his fath grew grew so much n his life, that had faith God was able to raise his child from the dead in his later years,

oh if we we could have half this faith.
So do I.

He shows grace towards believers and as a result towards non believers.

Read Genesis 18.

The first half God promises them a son, Sarah laughs, God questions why Sarah laughed, she denies it. Yet God says it will happen and will happen in my time.

Then in the second half we find Abraham pleading for Sodom.

If you find 50 righteous will you destroy it? And God says no.
Then Abraham says what if you only find 45 would you destroy it for lack of 5.
God says ok no.

It ends up at 10.
 
J

JoDel

Guest
I would stand with Bill or EG any day......to the bitter end......it takes guts to confess your difficulties in an open forum like this......and then like sharks coming up from the deep...........tragic for sure....
Tragic to the point of anyone who just MIGHT SEEK prayer, understanding and compassion from "fellow followers of Christ" (not doctrine, not dogma, not religion). Seeing the insult and fearing the "playground bullying" response. ~ I'm so thankful Jesus didn't tell the lepers, the lame, the blind, the demon possessed, the woman with the issue of blood, the deaf, the HURTING (in all that word encompasses)... that they didn't belong. :(
 
J

JoDel

Guest
Here is some truth for y'all. Jesus died ONCE to save us from our sins. Past, present, AND future sins. Once you are saved, you are saved for life, UNLESS you flat-out deny that God, Jesus and the HS do, or have ever, existed.. People can say "oh I stopped believing in God" for whatever reason, and they may mean it, but God knows their heart and if they truly mean it, or if they're just caught up in a bad situation and are too overwhelmed to think clearly about their faith and belief.

So for those who view their salvation as a "daily cookie", I'm sorry to burst your bubble but God isn't a baker. He doesn't sit up in heaven baking endless batches of cookies to dole out to us every day. :eek: Nor does he hand out daily salvation. THAT price was paid for long ago, once and for all time. :)
Beautifully said...
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
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Tragic to the point of anyone who just MIGHT SEEK prayer, understanding and compassion from "fellow followers of Christ" (not doctrine, not dogma, not religion). Seeing the insult and fearing the "playground bullying" response. ~ I'm so thankful Jesus didn't tell the lepers, the lame, the blind, the demon possessed, the woman with the issue of blood, the deaf, the HURTING (in all that word encompasses)... that they didn't belong. :(
Very tragic indeed.

what I find tragic is that there will be people who think they have it all together and look down on those who don't

That being the case they are not fit for purpose.

Yet those who say that have the wrong focus on purpose.

Yet those who do struggle God can and does still use them
 
J

JoDel

Guest
Hey how about go and tell my Christian foster dad who sexually abused me when my mum through me out when I was 14.

Hey how about you go and tell my mum that when she beat me silly and gave me black eyes as her fists rained down on my face.

Hey how about telling my real dad whose only memory I have is him breaking into our flat in Scotland and going to hit my mum who ducked and he knocked me out and was in hospital for weeks.


Hey how about you tell that to the CID who came round and asked me if my Foster dad was sexually abusing me and I said no because the other choices of going back to my mum or going into a foster home.

Hey about telling my mum when I was in hospital and was minutes away from death and my mum wouldn't visit and say I hope he dies.

Hey tell them all it want their fault and it's all mine.

Oh well now I know who's fault it is. Obviously mine.
:(Bill... I cried as I read this. I am so very sorry for your "child's heart" that was cruelly shredded by those you believed you could trust.~ I'm so grateful you didn't turn from the Love of Jesus later in your adult years when you could have laid blame on Him like many wounded people do. I'm so grateful for the love that wasn't smothered by innocent hatred. I'm so grateful Jesus' LOVE holds you continuously.~
 
Mar 7, 2016
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i think youll find billy hasnt truly let go and never will ....... damaged goods can be repaired billy lad so hows ya dog mate :)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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4,441
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:(Bill... I cried as I read this. I am so very sorry for your "child's heart" that was cruelly shredded by those you believed you could trust.~ I'm so grateful you didn't turn from the Love of Jesus later in your adult years when you could have laid blame on Him like many wounded people do. I'm so grateful for the love that wasn't smothered by innocent hatred. I'm so grateful Jesus' LOVE holds you continuously.~
Tried to rep you again but apparently I have to spread it a bit more.

Consider a rep again from me.

During my struggles when I shrank back my beautiful wife stood with me all the way.
She didn't get what I was going through and she hurt as well for me. She was confused with what was going on.

One day someone said to her "I have prayed for Bill, I saw a picture of a coal fire that want burning, I asked God what does this mean, then God stoked the fire and then I saw an ember. The fire wasn't out, then as God stoked the fire the ember started to burn the coals and set alight"

Now the person who told my wife this had no idea what was going on with me, he didn't really know me. We were not friends as we did not know each other.

When I started to come back to church and started to let go and let God and the fire started burning in me then my wife told me off the picture given to her.

That picture was given 15 years previous.

Am imperfect? No.
Do is still struggle? Yes
Does God still use me? Yes

Does Jesus live hold on for eternity?

YES YES YES YES.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
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i think youll find billy hasnt truly let go and never will ....... damaged goods can be repaired billy lad so hows ya dog mate :)
Ive not truly let go and never will?

What leads you to that conclusion?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
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i think youll find billy hasnt truly let go and never will ....... damaged goods can be repaired billy lad so hows ya dog mate :)
Not sure if you read my post about how God restored me and my mum.

I didn't post about my sexual abuser.

I went to him on his deathbed. Held his hand and prayed for him, his own biological son didn't do that.
I dealt with his estate, took me a year. His own son didn't do that.
I paid all expenses. His own son didn't do that.

I have forgiven all and let it go.
I have no hatred or unforgivenss and I've been set free from that.

Maybe I still have to hangover but God is the cure from what's left behind and that's what I trust.

Which dog? Toffee or Rufus?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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Not sure if you read my post about how God restored me and my mum.

I didn't post about my sexual abuser.

I went to him on his deathbed. Held his hand and prayed for him, his own biological son didn't do that.
I dealt with his estate, took me a year. His own son didn't do that.
I paid all expenses. His own son didn't do that.

I have forgiven all and let it go.
I have no hatred or unforgivenss and I've been set free from that.

Maybe I still have to hangover but God is the cure from what's left behind and that's what I trust.

Which dog? Toffee or Rufus?
Only the new man in Christ can do this. I love your story Bill.
 
J

JoDel

Guest
And many Christians go through the dark night of the soul. Its a testing place to go higher. Higher in spiritual realms.
Love your wording here... "dark night of the soul". What a great expression of those "hard times".... thank you.:eek:
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Only the new man in Christ can do this. I love your story Bill.
Thank you just being honest.
Being honest is not a sign of weakness, in a sense it's the opposite.
Its being true to ones self and that's being brave
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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JoDel is spam liking my posts.. lol

That's the highlight of my day.. :eek:
 
J

JoDel

Guest
I do believe though that Jesus wants to get to to root, the heart issue.
Amen... to the root and heart issue. We all have them and Jesus is concerned with every one of them in EVERY ONE of US.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Thank you just being honest.
Being honest is not a sign of weakness, in a sense it's the opposite.
Its being true to ones self and that's being brave
Bill, you truly show that in Christ we can be healed, and in that place know how people are victims
of their sin that binds them, and are the product of this twisted world.

To be able to see that, how the abused often become the abuser, the hurt often
become the hurters, one begins to see how the cross sets us free from this cycle of revenge,
anger, rebellion. The cross is the place of freedom, laying those burdens down.

Whatever peoples experiences in faith, their theology, their logic, I know until we
find this place of love and seeing how lost sinners are, and how precious it is that
we have been brought out of this, it appears just as words to many.

You humble me, because though I may think the thoughts and wonder, you have had
deep wounds, that have been healed and you have been made whole.

I have always believed testimonies are our lifeblood, because theories or ideas are easy
to construct, but so many are hungry for reality and healing within, to know something
can bring closure is life to all. Even just creating a space to talk about these things is
hard enough for some.

I know when my heart becomes too analytical, I lose the ability to reach out and love Christ,
and just dwell, knowing I am His son. Seeing so much lostness sometimes blunts the beauty,
because we begin to doubt what can be.

The blockages are real, but the answer to remove them is honesty and openness.
I wonder how many have to experience this before more can see its reality?
You are quite unique my friend and brother, God bless.