The Olivet Discourse

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May 11, 2014
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#61
Could it be that we are in the times of the Gentiles currently?

As for the olivet discourse, a case can be made that it is both 70 AD and future. Technically the abomination of desolation has happened twice already, once before Our Lord was born (Maccabees talks about this), then again in 70 AD and perhaps again tomorrow?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#62
I don't understand how that explains why that makes the tribulation in Matthew future. Israel is done, the sun became dark, the moon stopped reflecting light and the stars fell.
Can you tell me when these things happened?

Can you tell me when hail and fire mixed with blood came down upon the earth
Can you tell me when a third of the waters turned to blood and a third of the animals in the seas died?
Can you tell me when the fresh waters were turned to bitterness and a third of men died?
Can you tell me when the moon and the sun and the stars were struck so that a third of the day turned to darkness?


When did HE shake both the heavens and the earth to signify what is perishable and can be removed?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
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#63
Could it be that we are in the times of the Gentiles currently?

As for the olivet discourse, a case can be made that it is both 70 AD and future. Technically the abomination of desolation has happened twice already, once before Our Lord was born (Maccabees talks about this), then again in 70 AD and perhaps again tomorrow?
Prophecy and parallels
but there will be another temple will rebuilt and this also will make manifest those who do not know what they so confidently claim and it will cause a lot of TRUE CHRISTIANS to be killed because they will be the ones who will begin declaring THE GOSOEL more strongly trying to warn their Jewish brothers of their mistake

and the violent men of the covenant will have no issue with using force to remove these men whom they will view as obstacles
 
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J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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#64
Luke 21:24-25 KJV
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
[25] And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

If it's the Roman war against Judea then "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;" brings the " then everything didn't go FUTURE with verse 24 and stay future.
?


1) Judea /Israel is broken up
2) Israelites sent into captivity
3) Jerusalem is ravaged and under foreign control until

...............in here we have a 2000 year, and counting, period ...........

4) She is no longer under foreign control
5) At which point Christ will return
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#65
Can you tell me when these things happened?

Can you tell me when hail and fire mixed with blood came down upon the warth
Can you tell me when a third of the waters turned to blood and a third of the animals in the seas died?
Can you tell me when the fresh waters were turned to bitterness and a third of men died,
Can you tell me when the moon and the sun and the stars were struck so that a third of the day turned to darkness?


when did HE shake both the heavens and the earth to signify what is perishable and can be removed?
I could but you wont recieve it.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#66
I'm out of here
tou want to discuss things which have passed
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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#67
But you said:

"When God left the Temple, this meant that the light had gone out in Jerusalem, and really, the lights had gone out on all Judea"

The sun, moon and stars... that comes AFTER Luke said "the times of the Gentiles".
That is different. We were talking about Matthew
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
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#68
Ezekiel 9 and Revelation 11 and Daniel 11 have not happened yet

the craftsmen will do their work and that hasn't happened yet
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#69
?


1) Judea /Israel is broken up
2) Israelites sent into captivity
3) Jerusalem is ravaged and under foreign control until

...............in here we have a 2000 year, and counting, period ...........

4) She is no longer under foreign control
5) At which point Christ will return
Luke 21:24-26 KJV
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword [ you said this is AD 70], and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. [you said it goes future here]

[25] And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; [you said the sun moon and stars is Israel going dark (I agree) and that happened in ad 70. This is NO LONGER FUTURE]

[26] Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
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#70
Luke 21:24-26 KJV
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword [ you said this is AD 70], and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. [you said it goes future here]

[25] And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; [you said the sun moon and stars is Israel going dark (I agree) and that happened in ad 70. This is NO LONGER FUTURE]

No. This is not the same as Matthew.

[26] Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

When Jesus returns, there will be major heavenly upheavals. Completely different thing. It is scary to even think about that day.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#71
That is different. We were talking about Matthew
I disagree, I believe the are telling the same story with different details.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#72
Ezekiel 9 and Revelation 11 and Daniel 11 have not happened yet

the craftsmen will do their work and that hasn't happened yet
The four CARPENTERS are Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the carpenters that build the house of God.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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#73
The powers of the Heavens mean The Authority structure in heaven.

So when Jesus was enthroned on the Throne of David the powers of heaven were shaken

When the Church sits down on thrones as Kings, the powers of heaven will be shaken
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#74
The four CARPENTERS are Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the carpenters that build the house of God.
They can't put a mark on the foreheads of those who will be appalled

if they were the craftsmen as mentioned in Ezekiel 9, revelation 11 and Zechariah 1 they would have done what they should have done:

point all to the ONE who baptizes

then they wouldnt have to go out again and after THAT TRUTH and put a separate mark on anyone's head
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#75
They can't put a mark on the foreheads of those who will be appalled

if they were the craftsmen as mentioned in Ezekiel 9, revelation 11 and Zechariah 1 they would have done what they should have done:

point all to the ONE who baptizes

then they wouldnt have to go out again and after THAT TRUTH and put a separate mark on anyone's head
The 4 carpenters are the 4 gospels. This is an example of the gospel hidden in the old testament... it's everywhere.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
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#76
The 4 carpenters are the 4 gospels. This is an example of the gospel hidden in the old testament... it's everywhere.
There's only ONE GOSPEL
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
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#77
(Matthew 24:9–10)

"Then they will deliver you to affliction, and they will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name. And then many will stumble, and will betray each other, and will hate each other."

(Nearly all (John is exception) the Apostles became martyrs for Jesus' sake.)

This passage shows the uncompromising honesty of Jesus. He never promised his disciples an easy way; he promised them death and suffering and persecution. There is a sense in which the real Church will always be a persecuted Church, as long as it exists in a world which is not a Christian world. Where does that persecution come from?

1). Christ demands a new loyalty; and again and again he declared that this new loyalty must surpass all earthly ties. The greatest ground of hatred in the days of the early Church was the fact that Christianity split homes and families, when one member decided for Christ and the others did not. Christians are those who are pledged to give Jesus Christ the first place in their lives—and many a human clash is liable to result from that.

2). Christ demands a new standard. There are customs and practices and ways of life which may be all right for the world, but which are far from being all right for Christians. For many people, the difficulty about Christianity is that it is a judgment upon themselves and upon their way of life in their business or in their personal relationships. The awkward thing about Christianity is that anyone who does not wish to be changed is bound to hate it and resent it.

3). Christians, if they are true Christians, introduce into the world a new example. There is a daily beauty in their lives which make the lives of others ugly. Christians are the light of the world, not in the sense that they criticize and condemn others, but in the sense that they demonstrate in themselves the beauty of the Christ-filled life and therefore the ugliness of the Christ-less life.

4). This is all to say that Christianity brings a new conscience into life. Neither the individual Christian nor the Christian Church can ever know anything of a cowardly concealment or a cowardly silence. The Church and the individual Christian must at all times constitute the conscience of Christianity—but it is a human characteristic that there are many times when we would wish to silence conscience.

Christian believers can take hope in the accurate way Jesus' prophecies were fulfilled in the first generation of the early Church. There is no credible dispute with the accuracy of the fulfillment of these first century prophecies.

Since a significant portion of the "Olivet Discourse" also applies to the generation before Jesus' second coming we can be sure these prophecies will also be fulfilled as spoken by Jesus.

Jesus made other specific promises to His Church:

“Don’t let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God, and trust also in me. There is more than enough room in my Father’s home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am. And you know the way to where I am going.” (John 14:1-4 ).

"After saying this, Jesus was taken up into a cloud while they were watching, and they could no longer see him. As they strained to see him rising into heaven, two white-robed men suddenly stood among them. Men of Galilee, they said, why are you standing here staring into heaven? Jesus has been taken from you into heaven, but someday he will return from heaven in the same way you saw him go!”
(Acts 1:9-11).

 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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#79
@slave

I am not a big fan of dual fulfilment.

The problem with applying the 1st Century prophecies to now is that Jesus prophesied something different.

Days Of Noah and days Of Sodom. So basically everyone just living to please themselves.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#80
I agree and it was preached to the church in the wilderness - Christians in the wilderness.
We are still in the wilderness, just called out from and gathered up in CHRIST.

Those in HIM have already passed from death to life.
That is why THE GOSPEL is preached now...and will continue to be preached until the end...
Today is still the day of salvation and there is still hope while it is still today that men will be reconciled to GOD...

And that gift is available also to the israelites today.