Did Muhammad really see Gabriel or was it just satan posing as an angel of light?

[Burninglight]

At the risk of rustling some feathers, I think Id just be accused of racism and fear mongering if I did : p
Im not friendly enough when I debate Islam, I guess.
And its not about winning with me, its about helping everyone see why Muhammad is a false prophet, and placing their faith solely into Christ. Just as more educated people have done for me : p
(thats not an accusation being hurled at you btw, Ive just been told that I only care about winning due to not backing down from the facts)

And I do actually talk about this stuff online, even with Muslims. Ive even watched a Muslim come to Christ when others helped him get past the idea that the quran is filled with scientific facts. It was way cool seeing him ask to learn about Jesus : p

All we have to do is tell the truth in love. We don't need to be concerned how Muslims will take it. I believe you can have many more experiences like that with Muslim converts seeking Jesus that come on here, if allowed.
But the title of this thread concerns me especially if a Christian came up with it. If they don't know that it wasn't Gabriel that forced Muhammad to recite at Mt Hira, than they are in sore need of discernment and wisdom, but if they brought up the title to draw Muslims in on discussion that is different.

 

[Mchl]

Muhammad was familiar with Christians that lived in the Arabic lands. Actually he took a slave out of sleeve and married her who happened to be a Christian per se. Muhammad was very familiar with Christians and Christian beliefs and the Arabian area and also when he was on his early Caravans as a younger man. He came across all sorts of Christianity. There were Christians in that area live. These Christians happened to believe that the Trinity consisted of God, Jesus and Mary. That is what the Christians in the desert of Arabia believed was the trinity. Now it's a little interesting that Muhammad when he mentions the trinity in the Quran speaks of the Trinity consisting of Mary Jesus and God. This was heresy and all of the Roman and Greek Orthodox Church believed the Trinity consisted of the Father the Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But Muslims don't believe in the Holy Spirit. I just find it very interesting that the only Christians practicing Mary Jesus and God as the Trinity happened to live in the area where Muhammad lived and as I said one of the women he took his wife that was a slave and he took her out of that slave Hood was a Christian that believed just that. So don't think for a moment that Muhammad was ignorant to Jewish teachings nor Christian teachings of that area. When he was in Medina he spoke with many many Jewish people so he learned things from them as any human being would I'm not saying that Muhammad was or was not a prophet what I'm saying is pretty interesting and coincidental that he believed the Trinity consisted of you can say that. Gave him this information and it's possible that. That God gave him this information that Mary Jesus and God were the Trinity that was being practiced in that area and that was not correct as he called them they was not correct because God has no partners. So that would mean that also this would carry over into the Roman and Greek Church that the Trinity just doesn't exist in any form I don't care what names you throw in there it doesn't exist because God has no Partners according to Islam. My keyboard is not working properly so please Overlook the grammatical errors but I'm just giving you food for thought on both sides of the Isle. From the Muslim standpoint and from the Christian standpoint which would be a debate that Muhammad simply picked up the Christianity that was in his area and isolated to his area actually which consisted of Mary Jesus and God. Didn't exist anywhere helps in the Empire that I know of nowhere. This in itself was considered a heresy by the Roman Catholic Church at that time and was written about by historians matter of fact the Arabians would give bread to Mary as if she was a god or goddess on a certain day. There's no church on Earth that I know of that does this even to this day. That's why the Roman Catholic church and the Eastern Church consider this a great heresy and that these votes were Heretics - infidels

 

[Mchl]

Everything you said is true but you have to keep him mind at Muhammad never claimed to be a messiah or anything like that he was a messenger. So Jesus didn't mention Messengers . he mentioned false Messiahs and false prophets performing Miracles that would deceive. How many miracles did Muhammad perform? We just saying that it's possible it was an angel of Light in disguise. But let me ask you something which one is more lenient to Christians and Jesus and gives Jesus more respect than any other religion practically? Islam gives Jesus and Mary the most high admiration. The Quran says that Mary was the greatest woman. She is mentioned in the Quran more than any other woman. No here's what I'm going to say something that's going to probably upset people but I hope it doesn't. But it is honest the Jewish people and the Israelis especially talk horribly of Jesus Within the talmud . In the talmud it says that Mary was a w****. It says that she had relations with a Roman Centurion - Soldier and produced Jesus who in the talmud is called a bastard. And that he was the most evil person that had ever been with in Israel. He was a black magician and he fooled everyone and he got what he deserved. So all you folks that love is real keep in mind that Israelites do not love you for the most part if you're a Christian. Don't take my word on it just do a little Google searching and you'll find it true or lights have a lot of bad things to say about Christians and Christianity cannot legally be taught Within Israel. They'll allow it for a certain amount of days almost like a Visa but then they have to go. All I'm saying is the Islam is much more kind and receptive towards Christianity and Jesus than Judaism because they say horrible things about Jesus and Mary and their talmud which is their most holy book talk to kids all over the world in Hebrew school from a tiny age. They believe that Christianity Jesus and Paul were the worst thing that ever could have happened to Judaism. Believe me it gets much worse and I'm not even going to mention that on here but this is what people are taught within Judaism in Hebrew school I'm not saying that all Jews feel this way just like all Christians don't feel a certain way and let that be known. But I'll tell you with certainty that is real lights don't like us if you're Christian they do not like you and they teach it in their schools within Israel two disgrace Jesus. If they were to walk past a Christian Cemetery in another country they're supposed to spit towards it. This is pretty remarkable since the Jews went through the Holocaust and now they're the most racist people on Earth in the state of Israel. How can someone that was pushed down because of their race or ethnicity turn around simply 50 years later plus and treat Aaron's as in pure. That is saying and a chance in certain areas of Israel that's the right wing where they claim pure Israel no Arabs. Now this is ignorant but what they mean is no Muslims

 

[PrynceNY]

Jesus can raise the dead, why not call him to come down from heaven to raise Muhammad from the grave. Then we can all make thousands of questions for proof.

Raising Muhammed from the dead wont do any good. If anything he'd go back to deceiving the millions of Muslims he's currently doing now. If Christ were to raise one from the dead it would be of one who does the will of the father.

 

[Burninglight]

Muhammad was familiar with Christians that lived in the Arabic lands. Actually he took a slave out of sleeve and married her who happened to be a Christian per se. Muhammad was very familiar with Christians and Christian beliefs and the Arabian area and also when he was on his early Caravans as a younger man. He came across all sorts of Christianity. There were Christians in that area live. These Christians happened to believe that the Trinity consisted of God, Jesus and Mary. That is what the Christians in the desert of Arabia believed was the trinity. Now it's a little interesting that Muhammad when he mentions the trinity in the Quran speaks of the Trinity consisting of Mary Jesus and God.

The Quran doesn't explicitly state that the trinity consisted of Jesus, Mary and Allah, but it alludes to it even though Muslims disagree and deny it. But we know with the logical inference what Allah meant; so, according to you Allah dealt with or reacted to a remote Christians sect in that area that believed in a false trinity. As a result, he missed the true believe of all Christendom. That doesn't sound very universal to me; besides, I have never heard of Christians believing Mary was part of the trinity, some Catholics must have thought she was deity, but not part of the trinity. The point is Allah didn't know the concept of the trinity according to the gospel Scripture and that is a discrepancy for Islam

This was heresy and all of the Roman and Greek Orthodox Church believed the Trinity consisted of the Father the Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But Muslims don't believe in the Holy Spirit. I just find it very interesting that the only Christians practicing Mary Jesus and God as the Trinity happened to live in the area where Muhammad lived and as I said one of the women he took his wife that was a slave and he took her out of that slave Hood was a Christian that believed just that. So don't think for a moment that Muhammad was ignorant to Jewish teachings nor Christian teachings of that area. When he was in Medina he spoke with many many Jewish people so he learned things from them as any human being would I'm not saying that Muhammad was or was not a prophet what I'm saying is pretty interesting and coincidental that he believed the Trinity consisted of you can say that. Gave him this information and it's possible that.

Muhammad had grave misconceptions of Biblical Christianity. He even thought there was the gospel of Jesus Christ and that it was the only gospel we had. The rest of what you said doesn't make sense. It is not all written in coherent sentence structure form. You should know that Muhammad is not a prophet of God

That God gave him this information that Mary Jesus and God were the Trinity that was being practiced in that area and that was not correct as he called them they was not correct because God has no partners. So that would mean that also this would carry over into the Roman and Greek Church that the Trinity just doesn't exist in any form I don't care what names you throw in there it doesn't exist because God has no Partners according to Islam. My keyboard is not working properly so please Overlook the grammatical errors but I'm just giving you food for thought on both sides of the Isle. From the Muslim standpoint and from the Christian standpoint which would be a debate that Muhammad simply picked up the Christianity that was in his area and isolated to his area actually which consisted of Mary Jesus and God. Didn't exist anywhere helps in the Empire that I know of nowhere. This in itself was considered a heresy by the Roman Catholic Church at that time and was written about by historians matter of fact the Arabians would give bread to Mary as if she was a god or goddess on a certain day. There's no church on Earth that I know of that does this even to this day. That's why the Roman Catholic church and the Eastern Church consider this a great heresy and that these votes were Heretics - infidels

Muslim scholars and Imams deny that Allah told Muhammad that Mary was the second person of the trinity or that the Quran states this. I don't know where you get your sources. We only know what Muhammad's Quran states by inference on this issue. I am convinced of Allah's and Muhammad's misconceptions of true Christianity.

 

[Burninglight]

Everything you said is true but you have to keep him mind at Muhammad never claimed to be a messiah or anything like that he was a messenger. So Jesus didn't mention Messengers . he mentioned false Messiahs and false prophets performing Miracles that would deceive. How many miracles did Muhammad perform? We just saying that it's possible it was an angel of Light in disguise. But let me ask you something which one is more lenient to Christians and Jesus and gives Jesus more respect than any other religion practically? Islam gives Jesus and Mary the most high admiration. The Quran says that Mary was the greatest woman. She is mentioned in the Quran more than any other woman. No here's what I'm going to say something that's going to probably upset people but I hope it doesn't. But it is honest the Jewish people and the Israelis especially talk horribly of Jesus Within the talmud .

Muslims refer to Jesus as the son of His mother "The son of Mary." That is actually disrespectful when we know that God called Jesus His "Beloved son" and Jesus called God His father and referred to Himself as "the Son of Man." Muslims say he is son of woman. Muhammad usurps the priesthood of Jesus, I never said Muhammad claimed to be a messiah, but Muslims claim he is the best of God's creation and the seal of all prophets . They lift a false prophet above Jesus and you see that as honoring Jesus and Mary? Some Muslims say Muhammad split the moon as a miracle. If someone cannot see Muhammad is a false prophet, they need to repent and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and ask for discernment.

Peace

 

[Mchl]

The Sanhedrin accused Jesus of being overcome by evil and did Black Magic through the help of Satan and demons. Do you believe this is true? But now you're claiming the very same thing happened to Muhammad. That it was something evil or an angel of Light that was actually a demon or Fallen Angel. Do you see that the same thing happened to Jesus? All the prophets were persecuted. Some of the prophets were so overwhelmed by the spirit of the creator that they did ridiculous things. I'm just talking ridiculous compared to Modern Times. Does anyone remember what some of the prophets did that may have seemed ridiculous even in that day but they were so overwhelmed by the spirit. The same persecution that was given to Jesus by the Sanhedrin was then or today is was leader given towards Muhammad even until today. Do you folks understand that Muhammad bro a huge amount of people out of paganism and to believe in one God? Judge them by their fruits? Was there violence in the Quran? Yes there was. But there was a lot more violence in the Bible. This reminds me of the Jews asking Muhammad what was the miracle where were the Miracles? And he said the miracle is the Quran. I'm not saying he was or was not a profit but I'm saying that a lot of good came out of him. Let's not talk about what happened later when people believe that is long was absolutely spread by The Sword and so on and so forth. Christians are no Angels remember the Crusades. The Crusades were instigated by the Christians. And anyone that study the Crusades or what's documentaries on the Crusades and detail will notice that the Muslims had mercy on the Christians that they trapped within the Holy Land. The Christians did not. How can home area a huge area of the world being brought out of paganism and polytheism be a bad thing? Forget about the Fanatics and the radicals within Islam because there are radicals and every religion. Don't think for a moment that Christianity was spread through pure peace. It's unfair to judge people from a different era based on our perspectives today in the present

 

[Mchl]

Did Jesus ever ask anyone to worship Him?

 

[Mchl]

I get my information that Muhammad didn't believe in the Holy Spirit as Muslims don't and that he spoke of Mary Jesus and God not in that order but that was what he believed in as the Trinity is in the Hadith and it's in the Quran. So Scholars can deny it all I want but I can go look in the information right now and come back and post it to show you it's in the Quran are you going to believe the scholars if you want to but maybe they're just trying to brush over the fact

 

[Mchl]

Surah: 5:116 and 4:171 clearly display that Muhammad relieved or taught that Jesus Mary and God - not in that order necessarily , were three distinct beings that Christians worshipped as God or Gods. Anyone can go read this and see that he's not talking about the holy spirit because Muslims don't believe in the Holy Spirit although they should because the first example that I gave from the Quran says the power that comes from God. What do you think the holy spirit is folks? He didn't understand that the Holy Spirit was part of a trinity along with Jesus and God as teachings of the main Church. And that the Christians in that area of the world believed that Mary Jesus and God were to be revered as to be worshipped. You can't read those examples from the Quran without not seeing that he's believing that Mary was being worshipped. Mary was not being worshipped as part of a Triune godhead

 

[Mchl]

I'm sorry I didn't mean to use the word Trinity but the word Trinity is not in the Bible either. But the Quran teaches that Mary Jesus and God were three distinct beings worthy of worship. Catholics weren't even in that part of the world at that time. They had come and spread the message but then it became distorted into this belief that I've told you of that they believe Mary was a goddess and Jesus was a God and that God was God. So not a trinity but three gods. All you have to do is do a little research on Google and historians of that time will write about this heresy that was going on in the land of Arabia. Catholics don't worship Mary and have never worship Mary because I'm Catholic. And if they do worship Mary then they've gone astray. Pope John Paul II chastised or Cardinal in Latin America wants for teaching the doctrine of worshiping Mary. Catholics are supposed to hold Mary and high esteem above any other woman has ever walked the face of the Earth. Has there ever been another woman that experience with she experience and produced Jesus? So why would people not hold her in high esteem. It is true that some Catholics have little shrines within their homes with all sorts of candles of saints and whatnot. They asked the Saints to pray for them as they ask Mary to pray for them. They don't pray to any of these people they asked them to pray for us just ask you might ask someone here on Earth to pray for you. Let me ask you a question folks have you asked someone to pray for you or pray for a loved one? Well Catholics believe that the Saints and Mary are able to pray for people as well but just they're a little more powerful since there closer to God

 

[Mchl]

This is a very common misconception that non-catholics have towards Catholics. It's not anything new. Did you know that the great reformist or revolutionist whatever you would want to call him Martin Luther said the Rosary and ask Mary to pray for him as well as other Saints? If you don't believe me you can find the information where his writings showed us even after he was excommunicated. He didn't come out of the church of his own free will he just wanted a little reform

 

[grif101]

So, according to Islam, Muhammad's first revelation was the event in which Muhammad was visited by the archangel Gabriel in 610 CE, who revealed to him a verse from the Koran. The event took place in a cave called Hira, located on the mountain called Jabal an-Nour, near Makkah.

However, we know that Satan usually poses as an angel of light.

And let's remember; Satan is not his original name. It is Lucifer and in the Hebrew it means “shining one” or “morning star.”

Now we know that Satan is the author of lies and confusion (John 8:44). And that his only will is to steal, kill and destroy.

So Muhammad is said to have been visited in a cave by an angel of light. Or the angel Gabriel to be precise.

Well check this out....


Original source: Chapter Eleven: The Dark Nature of Muhammad’s Revelations

Stark contrast indeed! Do angels of God usually strangle people?

Is Islam from God?

Was this really the angel of God Gabriel?

And another interesting question, since the bible teaches us that Jesus is the only way to God, that Jesus was given to us as a way back to God, that faith in Jesus is the only way mankind can gain atonement/forgiveness for their sins. And the Koran actually denies that Christ was Gods son, came into the world and was crucified on the cross (even though we have the three Gospels Matthew, Mark, and Luke). Is the Koran from God? Or is it just the works of Satan back in 610 CE?

Can an educated person here bring and shed some light on Islam?

Thanks!

You should read "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus" by Nabeel Qureshi. It's his story growing up in a strict Muslim home and befriending a Christian boy at his school. They debate, which causes him to search for "proof" that his belief is the correct one. He finds many inconsistencies in various Islamic holy books (which he explains in detail) and eventually comes to faith in Christ.

 

[Mchl]

The problem that I see for the most part is the everyone here and maybe even including myself has surface knowledge some of us have a little more in-depth knowledge of Islam the Quran and comparative religions. But people are making all sorts of mistakes and all they have to do is go do the research and they'll find out if they're saying things that are inaccurate nothing I've said is inaccurate accept the things that I fixed when I accidentally said that Muhammad believed that Jesus Mary and God were a trinity. He never use the word Trinity just as in the Bible that we're Trinity was never used. But did Jesus ever say worship me? That's a serious question I'm asking you this for an answer. If Jesus said worship me in the Bible then I want to know where it is. I'm not joking I'm being very serious I've never seen anywhere that Jesus said worship me. When he spoke of the father did he not also tell other people that my father and your father could do this or do that?

 

[Mchl]

I've given you two different examples within the Quran that show that Muhammad taught that Mary Jesus and God worm being worshipped as three separate distinct beings. So are you going to believe the scholars or you just going to read the examples from the Quran that I've placed in there and you can see right there it's pretty clear. And if you can't see that you have tunnel vision my friends

 

[kaylagrl]

The problem that I see for the most part is the everyone here and maybe even including myself has surface knowledge some of us have a little more in-depth knowledge of Islam the Quran and comparative religions. But people are making all sorts of mistakes and all they have to do is go do the research and they'll find out if they're saying things that are inaccurate nothing I've said is inaccurate accept the things that I fixed when I accidentally said that Muhammad believed that Jesus Mary and God were a trinity. He never use the word Trinity just as in the Bible that we're Trinity was never used. But did Jesus ever say worship me? That's a serious question I'm asking you this for an answer. If Jesus said worship me in the Bible then I want to know where it is. I'm not joking I'm being very serious I've never seen anywhere that Jesus said worship me. When he spoke of the father did he not also tell other people that my father and your father could do this or do that?

Jesus accepted worship,He never stopped anyone from worshiping Him. He claimed to be God and He was crucified for it. All found in the Bible.

 

[kaylagrl]

I'm sorry I didn't mean to use the word Trinity but the word Trinity is not in the Bible either. But the Quran teaches that Mary Jesus and God were three distinct beings worthy of worship. Catholics weren't even in that part of the world at that time. They had come and spread the message but then it became distorted into this belief that I've told you of that they believe Mary was a goddess and Jesus was a God and that God was God. So not a trinity but three gods. All you have to do is do a little research on Google and historians of that time will write about this heresy that was going on in the land of Arabia. Catholics don't worship Mary and have never worship Mary because I'm Catholic. And if they do worship Mary then they've gone astray. Pope John Paul II chastised or Cardinal in Latin America wants for teaching the doctrine of worshiping Mary. Catholics are supposed to hold Mary and high esteem above any other woman has ever walked the face of the Earth. Has there ever been another woman that experience with she experience and produced Jesus? So why would people not hold her in high esteem. It is true that some Catholics have little shrines within their homes with all sorts of candles of saints and whatnot. They asked the Saints to pray for them as they ask Mary to pray for them. They don't pray to any of these people they asked them to pray for us just ask you might ask someone here on Earth to pray for you. Let me ask you a question folks have you asked someone to pray for you or pray for a loved one? Well Catholics believe that the Saints and Mary are able to pray for people as well but just they're a little more powerful since there closer to God

You can pray to Mary night and day,she cannot answer and she can pray for no one. Mary was an obedient servant,as we are all to be. But she was a sinner that needed a Savior,like all of us. She is held in no higher esteem,has no special power,or is any different than any one of us. We are to emulate her obedience to God,that is all.

 

[Mchl]

No one worships him and no one prayed to him. The disciples knew he was the Messiah. You're probably talking about the time when he says you seen me you've seen the father. The father and I are one. One in purpose. With the same Drive in the same desire of the father. Your father my father everyone's father. You got to be known it wasn't just his father it was everyone's father. If you knew the father then you would know him he said. That is because he's teachings were completely in line with the teachings of God. Now the part that you're probably thinking of is where he said I am. And then we go back to Mount Sinai where God said I am that I am. I'm not trying to put Jesus down or slight him in any way but he did not ask people to worship him and no one worshipped him. A lot of profits were worshipped if you just read the Old Testament. Because they were speaking from the mouth of God inspired by the spirit. So it's true he never said don't worship me why you never said worship me and none of the Old Testament prophets said don't worship me but do you remember Elijah and Elisha?

 

[Mchl]

Did you not notice I said you're not supposed to pray to Mary in Catholicism. You can ask Mary to pray for you. If you can pray for me why do you think that Mary cannot pray for you? What's the difference between asking someone on Earth or in your church to pray for you and asking someone who is in heaven or Paradise to pray for you? You're once again getting it misunderstood misconstrued

 

[Gabriel2020]

ACTS; 4; 12; Neither is there salvation in any other;(meaning salvation only through Jesus Christ) For there is none other name under heaven given among men,whereby we must be saved. (Don't preach Jesus, then there is no salvation, no eternal life either.)