Not By Works

[Stephen63]

2 Peter 2
​

The Rise of False Prophets

1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

Greed here isn't necessarily for money. Some are greedy for the glory, or to be the center of attention, or greedy for power & influence.

In the end, it's about their pride.

They have to be in the middle of everything.
They have to be the center of attention.
They have to be in the forefront.
They have to be right.
They have to have their own way.
Everything has to be according to their interpretation.

This isn't you if you're not doing these things. But those that are..... it should by now be obvious.

 

[stonesoffire]

Maybe I'm just too simple minded to understand..lol.. but even cops and judges convict criminals, as in saying "don't you feel any remorse for (insert crime)?".

Maybe I'm just not explaining myself very well.. lol

Because they are enforcing the law. Jesus didn't come to judge the world but to free us from ourselves.

 

[Meggido]

You repent to get saved, not stay saved.


You want to repent of th same sin over and over go ahead,

oh wait, this is probably another one of this divisions based on interpretation of words.

Satan is trying to divide.

We should not confuse repentance with becoming a new creation, putting on the new man and being raised into newness of life...this is not repentance, that is the new birth

While not taught the correct way anymore, repentance is actually a part of progressive/ongoing sanctification

Repentance is not simply turning from sin. Repentance is turning away and forsaking the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life.

 

[Meggido]

So if the HS doesn't convict us, then what need is there for repentance of sins?

The Holy Spirit convicts a saint/believer when they are not walking in practical righteousness and when they fall out of positional righteousness...The Holy Spirit convicts a sinner/non-believer of their SIN.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1. You are no longer a sinner but a redeemed saint, clothed in Christ's righteousness that sometimes sins.

2. The Holy spirit would never convict you as a sinner. He convicts/reproved/rebuke individual sins, which are specific actions and thoughts that need to be changed to conform with God's truth and will.

I am am a sinner (a person who still sins) save by Grace

the HS changes my thought process, he does not need to expose my sin, thaT would be putting me under law. That says do not do this,

he instead changes my heart, and says do that (seek after things of the spirit). You want to use the word convict, feel free, it does not fit my definition of he word,

 

[BillG]

The term conviction in the Greek means to convince...

The problem with the word 'convict' as perceived today and which some use as the word in the bible, it means "You are guilty as charged and now you must pay the price" In affect condemned for what we have done wrong.

Yes we are guilty as charged. And a price needed to be paid.

Who paid theta price?

Jesus paid that price "My God my God why have you forsaken me? Then he lifted up his head and said "It is finished"
He then gave up his last breath and the temple curtain was torn in two.

So to me the Holy Spirit convinces the world of its sin in unbelief in Jesus.
You are guilty as charged and condemned as a result.

so to me in a sense the Holy Spirit convinces a person of this.

BUT I TELL YOU THIS, JESUS HAS STEPPED IN, TAKEN YOUR PLACE AND PAID THE PRICE.
HE HAS TAKEN YOUR CONDEMNATION ON HIMSELF AND DIED FOR YOU.
AS A RESULT YOU HAVE A PARDON.
WILL YOU ACCEPT IT?

There is no condemnation for those in Christ (ps not looking for a debate in the first 4 verses of Romans 8)

 

[stonesoffire]

We fall from grace by turning back to law. Self effort.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We should not confuse repentance with becoming a new creation, putting on the new man and being raised into newness of life...this is not repentance, that is the new birth

While not taught the correct way anymore, repentance is actually a part of progressive/ongoing sanctification

Repentance is not simply turning from sin. Repentance is turning away and forsaking the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life.

repent means to change thinking,

when i I agree with God, and set my thinking with his to the point of saving faith I have repented

if. Agree that living s a sin, I have repented, if I go on lying I can not repent anymore, I already agree it is a sin.

i confess, admit my guilt and move on.

 

[blue_ladybug]

True, but we are still....susceptible to being tempted by sin. I know some here don't believe this, but this world IS satan's playground, he completely rules it.. he has full reign over all the evil and temptation that surrounds us..

Because they are enforcing the law. Jesus didn't come to judge the world but to free us from ourselves.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

GOD's workmanship[/B] created In CHRIST JESUS unto good works that was before ordained that we should walk In them.

+++
John 6:63
King James Version(KJV)

63.)It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
+++
Galations 5:22-24
King James Version(KJV)

22.)But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23.)Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24.)And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[PeterJens]

The question would not be about sin, the real question I think God will ask is, "did you really know me?" I would imagine if you really knew Him you wouldn't be out there killing people, seriously dude!

Ok now you have taken on board sin is not acceptable, apply this to every known sin
you do. Sin is destructive behaviour, not being impolite, or showing irritation, but something
that damages. In a cross the road sense, it is jumping out in front of a car.

We could all do it, but we know it will kill us. So sin is this serious and destructive.

It is why God commands us to work each sin through. And it is not really about the sin, it is
about the underlying needs and desires that drive it. When you understand the damage sin does
you begin to see why and how to avoid such things.

To a legalist they are just interested in check boxes, not intimacy and communion with the
Living God, to be one with Him.

How can I say those words? To be one with the creator of the universe.

DO you understand the awe and wonder of what He is offering us!!!!!

It is astounding, glorious, Holy, precious, beyond compare....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Holy Spirit convicts a saint/believer when they are not walking in practical righteousness and when they fall out of positional righteousness...The Holy Spirit convicts a sinner/non-believer of their SIN.

If a saint NT needs to be convicted of sin, As if they think they are not sinning, I seriously question if they are saved.

 

[stonesoffire]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BillG again. Yes!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The problem with the word 'convict' as perceived today and which some use as the word in the bible, it means "You are guilty as charged and now you must pay the price" In affect condemned for what we have done wrong.

Yes we are guilty as charged. And a price needed to be paid.

Who paid theta price?

Jesus paid that price "My God my God why have you forsaken me? Then he lifted up his head and said "It is finished"
He then gave up his last breath and the temple curtain was torn in two.

So to me the Holy Spirit convinces the world of its sin in unbelief in Jesus.
You are guilty as charged and condemned as a result.

so to me in a sense the Holy Spirit convinces a person of this.

BUT I TELL YOU THIS, JESUS HAS STEPPED IN, TAKEN YOUR PLACE AND PAID THE PRICE.
HE HAS TAKEN YOUR CONDEMNATION ON HIMSELF AND DIED FOR YOU.
AS A RESULT YOU HAVE A PARDON.
WILL YOU ACCEPT IT?

There is no condemnation for those in Christ (ps not looking for a debate in the first 4 verses of Romans 8)

​amen, this is as I see it also

 

[BillG]

yes it can. It can also mean expose,

i know. Am a sinner, I do not need to be convinced or exposed of that fact

but. I Do need to be rebuked, admonished, or chastened because of it

Sadly people do that.
Plank eye come to mind.

Mind you it seems some don't have a plank in their own eye and therefore see the speck in your eye.
If memory serves me only one person and only one never had a plank in his eye.

Ooh who was it?

Memory fails me.

WHO WAS IT?

 

[Ariel82]

If a saint NT needs to be convicted of sin, As if they think they are not sinning, I seriously question if they are saved.

You see that is where we differ.

I don't think it's right to toss out people that they aren't saved because they get convicted/rebuked/reproved by the Holy spirit or by other believers. I believe it's part of the life of a Christian to receive correction and then they feel godly sorrow unto repentance. Its what helps us grow and learn to live godly lives,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You see that is where we differ.

I don't think it's right to toss out people that they aren't saved because they get convicted/rebuked/reproved by the Holy spirit or by other believers. I believe it's part of the life of a Christian to receive correction and then they feel godly sorrow unto repentance. Its what helps us grow and learn to live godly lives,

how can a person be saved if they are convinced they d not sin.

 

[Meggido]

I am am a sinner (a person who still sins) save by Grace

the HS changes my thought process, he does not need to expose my sin, thaT would be putting me under law. That says do not do this,

he instead changes my heart, and says do that (seek after things of the spirit). You want to use the word convict, feel free, it does not fit my definition of he word,

we have had this discussion before. bro...you cannot claim to still be a sinner saved by grace and a sin-forgiven saint that still sins....this is an impossibility

This is being double minded and unstable in all your ways...before you get in a huff take it up with James 1.5-8

When we claim we are still a sinner, we put Jesus back on the cross....

Does God still view YOU stilla as a sinner or a sin-forgiven saint that still sins?

As much as this will get you upset, it has to be said...until you come into the reality of your true identity in Christ, you will never grow....you are saved, you will go to heaven, but you will never grow spiritually and be in victory today....and continue to struggle and continue you wondering why others get a breakthrough and you never do.

God did not call you to take his free gift then tell continue to tell everyone what a sinner you still are....God expects you to grow up spiritually and begin overcoming now....

I think you personally are in deep confusion over true identity in Christ, because you do not want to even do anything that might be perceived as you working to obtain anything from God, especially salvation....

We do not work good works to maintain salvation, we do not walk in victory now because of fear of losing salvation, we do not work at anything regarding God....

WE RECEIVE ALL THE BENEFITS, SALVATION BRINGS!

Which includes understanding I am no longer a sinner saved by grace, but a sin-forgiven saint that still sins...

Sinner is past, not present or future....even when we still sin, which we all do...

If you ever get this revelation from the Holy Spirit you will be forever changed...

 

[stonesoffire]

True, but we are still....susceptible to being tempted by sin. I know some here don't believe this, but this world IS satan's playground, he completely rules it.. he has full reign over all the evil and temptation that surrounds us..

The conviction that Holy Spirit brings to us by our realizing we are sinners and in need...is a one time experience. It's not repeated blue. But, yes we can be tempted and commit a sin. If we continue in this behavior we may die. It's the law of sin and death. He will take us home.

But, this is extreme for He will even hem us in. I doubt most would not go beyond this.

That's why we discern the body of Jesus and His blood of His Cross in communion. We are Spiritual beings is true, but we still have a body, and the human nature has to lessen, and His nature become greater.

Our flesh has been cut by the axe of Holy Spirit with our new birth. It's dying daily...I love that scripture about the axe put to the tree...it's that tree that got us in trouble in the beginning.

What I am seeing now, is that when we can handle knowing good and evil for I don't believe God will keep anything back from us...we will then experience the fullness of God. The Sons mature in Him. The perfect. Then will we be able to judge the world, and angels.

Not saying I am there...I am seeing.

 

[BillG]

First why are they repenting of anger?

Anger is not a sin. Unforgiveness is.

I just picked out anger. It could have been something else.

Lets look at anger

Ephesians 4:26-27
“Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, nor give place to the devil.

I am not picking out a particular sin but was asking if we say we repent of something that we know is wrong but do it again then have we truly repented?

Trying also to bring out repentance and what it actually means to people