God's Commandment For Women Not To Speak In Church

[Angela53510]

Modern women are horrible. I find it staggering that men don't beat sense in to women any more.

I'm not saying to go back to the old covenant, I'm pointing out how much wiser they were and how much better society was when women weren't puffed up and disrespectful and answering back without fear and how God has stated dozens of times the need of widows and the fatherless to be taken care of in a loving family.

Lord Jesus didn't go around beating people up, that's true. But He did talk about stoning to death;

Matthew 15:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Children being killed? Are you going to accuse God of being abusive, cruel or sexist?

Ephesians 5:

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Women who don't submit and aren't biblical need correction, otherwise they are spreading confusion and partaking in the world against godly authority.

Please note, I have never promoted abuse. I am not condoning abusive relationships. I do not condone senseless violence.



I know, abuse isn't.



I posted 4 passages of scripture, and spoke against hypocrisy. It's foolishness to speak emotionally without thinking.

No. That is not what I am reading him saying the first time.



He did not say that men are to beat horrible women per se. He said because of how horrible women are, he find it staggering that men don't beat sense in to women any more....

But I can see how you took it that way with "any more" attached to it as if he can cite a source that proves men have been beating sense into horrible women.... which I believe was not what he was trying to say, let alone endorse.

Sense his second post explains his personal position exactly rather than making a reference to how men are not beating sense into horrible women for how horrible women would have to be in provoking such a response, I would give grace to his previous statement since not every one of us is always clear in what we mean when we post.

In fact, he is inciting men to hate women. He is inciting men to beat women, as the only hope for this "modern" world. As if women caused all the wars and violence and were responsible for every ill "as a class" in the world.

This is black and white thinking. It fails to see all of us, men and women, as unique individuals whom God loves. It is a blanket condemnation of all women. The entire implication of his posts, are in fact that since women are "horrible" they should be "beaten" or worse.

Beating is bad enough, but this kind of open ended condemnation of all women, for who knows what reason, is an invitation to rape and murder. Because, after all "they" deserve it.

I would suggest this person is extremely disturbed, perhaps mentally ill. They need to see a psychiatrist, and perhaps a therapist to work through the anger and hate he has for women, all women, including women he does not know. Before he really does hurt someone physically.

And too late for this thread - he has already triggered me and quite a few other women. I've coached Abused Women groups, and it was run by a secular organization. Sadly, by the end of the year, every single woman but one admitted they were Christians, and their husbands attended church, were elders, leaders. The kinds of abuse ranged from withholding money, when the wife was in charge of maintaining the household, throwing things, sexual abuse, beatings, verbal abuse and one woman had her husband shoot and almost kill her. He was in jail at the time of the group for attempted murder.

And yet, all those men said they were following Christ. There is utterly no righteousness in abusing someone smaller than yourself. It is abhorrent to God! God commands husbands to love their wives. He NEVER tells husbands to discipline, to beat or to abuse them. The Qur'an and the Hadiths are the places to look for permission to beat wives. That is why so many people told Zen to become a Muslim. Because he is already half there!

 

[Denadii]

Zen old Zen You opened a bucket of worms when you opened your mouth...Why don't you simply apologize and learn from it? Learn to think before you flap your gums

 

[Zen]

In fact, he is inciting men to hate women. He is inciting men to beat women, as the only hope for this "modern" world

No I'm not. I'm sorry that your reading comprehension is not on the same level as your spiritual development.

 

[Angela53510]

Here is the truth. There are NO verses that give permission for a husband to beat his wife, under any circumstance. And a woman is an adult, not a child who needs discipline. And today, most women are educated, intelligent and certainly don't need the kind of instruction an isolated Greek, Roman or Jewish matron might have needed in the first century. Although they did not need to be beaten, either, according to the Bible, but "washed with the Word."

CONTEXT! That is important! The problem with this whole hierarchy and "role" business, is that it does encourage wife beating, and congregation abuse, and religious abuse, to say nothing of child abuse in the Catholic Church by priests, which is endemic. Because instead of Jesus being the one who has all authority, men and individuals take it on themselves to control and manipulate those who they place below them, and the cycle of abuse - the powerful abusing the less powerful begins, and continues for generations and centuries, in the case of the Catholic Church.

But first, let us deal with Islam. Which many thought Zen either was, or should become. Islam is the religion that encourages wife beating, not Christianity. Christianity encourages husbands to "love their wives." Here is one passage which supports this.

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church—" Eph. 5:25-29

See - Christian men are to care for the wife's body as they care for their own. They are to love their wives as Christ loved the church. Context here is the NT. The Old Testament laws have been done away with by the death and resurrection of Christ. Christ fulfilled the law. He took our punishment. And we are all equal in Christ.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28


Now, let us look at what the Qur'an says about beating wives. I suggest Zen might be much happier as a Muslim, maybe even a cleric, in this godless and evil religion!

[h=3]Quran[/h]Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great." Contemporary translations sometimes water down the word 'beat', but it is the same one used in verse 8:12and clearly means 'to strike'.
Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir).


[TABLE="class: quran-table, width: 675"]
[TR]
[TD="class: quran-cell"][h=3]Hadith and Sira[/h]Sahih Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

Sahih Bukhari (72:715) - "Aisha said, 'I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'" Muhammad's own wife complained of the abuse that the women of her religion suffered relative to other women.

Sahih Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Sahih Muslim (9:3506) - Muhammad's fathers-in-law (Abu Bakr and Umar) amused him by slapping his wives (Aisha and Hafsa) for annoying him. According to the Hadith, the prophet of Islam laughed upon hearing this.

Abu Dawud (2141) - "Iyas bin ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Dhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah’s handmaidens, but when ‘Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them." At first, Muhammad forbade men from beating their wives, but he rescinded this once it was reported that women were becoming emboldened toward their husbands. Beatings in a Muslim marriage are sometimes necessary to keep women in their place.

Abu Dawud (2142) - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife." The authenticity of this verse is characterized as daif (weak), however, a similar verse from Sunan Ibn Majah 3:9:1986 is said to be hasan (sufficient).

Abu Dawud (2126) - "A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: 'I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet).' The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: 'She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her'" A Muslim thinks he is getting a virgin, then finds out that she is pregnant. Muhammad tells him to treat the woman as a sex slave and then flog her after she delivers the child.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 969 - Requires that a married woman be "put in a separate room and beaten lightly" if she "act in a sexual manner toward others." According to the Hadith, this can be for an offense as petty as merely being alone with a man to whom she is not related.

Kash-shaf (the revealer) of al-Zamkhshari (Vol. 1, p. 525) - [Muhammad said] "Hang up your scourge where your wife can see it"[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: quran-cell"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Some contemporary Muslim apologists often squirm over this relatively straightforward verse from the Quran (4:34) - which gives men the right to beat their wives if they even have a "fear" of disloyalty or disobedience. Their rhetorical aerobics inspired us to write a separate article:

Wife Beating- Good Enough for Muhammad, Good Enough for You

Others are not nearly as squeamish. Sheikh Yousef al-Qaradhawi, one of the most respected Muslim clerics in the world, once made the famous (and somewhat ridiculous statement) that "It is forbidden to beat the woman, unless it is necessary." He went on to say that "one may beat only to safeguard Islamic behavior," leaving no doubt that wife-beating is a matter of religious sanction. (source)

Dr. Muzammil Saddiqi, the former president of ISNA (the Islamic Society of North America), a mainstream Muslim organization, says it is important that a wife "recognizes the authority of her husband in the house" and that he may use physical force if he is "sure it would improve the situation." (source)

Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Muhammad Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, the head of Al-Azhar, Sunni Islam's most prestigious institution says that "light beatings" and "punching" are part of a program to "reformthe wife" (source).

Dr. Jamal Badawi endorses corporal punishment as "another measure that may save the marriage" (source). He isn't clear on how striking a woman will make her more inclined toward staying with her assailant, unless the implication is fear of more serious consequences if she leaves.

Egyptian cleric, Abd al-Rahman Mansour, said in a 2012 televised broadcast that, in addition to discouraging the wife from filing divorce, beatings would inspire the wife to "treat him with kindness and respect, and know that her husband has a higher status than her." (source)

During Ramadan of 2010, another cleric named Sa'd Arafat actually said the woman is "honored" by the beating (source). No one else seemed terribly surprised or upset by this.

An undercover report from progressive Sweden in 2012 visited 10 mosques and found that 6 actually advised beaten women not to report the abuse to the police. These women were also told that they must submit to non-consensual 'sex' with their husbands. (source)

In the birthplace of Islam, about half of Saudi women are beaten at home. "Hands and sticks were found to be used mostly in beating women, following by men’s head cover and to a lesser extent, sharp objects." (source)

In 2016, the Council of Islamic Ideology proposed a bill - ironically named the Protection of Women against Violence Act - that actually included exceptions for "lightly beating" defiant wives. (source)

According to Islamic law, a husband may strike his wife for any one of the following four reasons:

- She does not attempt to make herself beautiful for him (ie. "let's herself go")
- She refuses to meet his sexual demands
- She leaves the house without his permission or for a "legitimate reason"
- She neglects her religious duties
​

Any of these are also sufficient grounds for divorce.

Respected Quran scholars in the past interpreted verse 4:34 with impressive candor. Tabari said that it means to "admonish them, but if they refused to repent, then tie them up in their homes and beat them until they obey Allah’s commands toward you." Qurtubi told wife-beaters to avoid breaking bones, if possible, but added that "it is not a crime if it leads to death." (source)

Muslim apologists sometimes say that Muhammad ordered that women not be harmed, but they are actually basing this on what he said before or during a battle, such as in Bukhari (59:447)when Muhammad issued an order for all the men of Qurayza be killed and the women and children taken as slaves. (Having your husband murdered and being forced into sexual slavery apparently doesn't qualify as "harm" under the Islamic model).

But, in fact, there are a number of cases in which Muhammad did have women killed in the most brutal fashion. One was Asma bint Marwan, a mother or five, who wrote a poem criticizing the Medinans for accepting Muhammad after he had ordered the murder of an elderly man. In this case, the prophet's assassins literally pulled a nursing infant from her breast and stabbed her to death.

After taking Mecca in 630, Muhammad also ordered the murder of a slave girl who had merely made up songs mocking him. The Hadith are rife with accounts of women planted in the ground on Muhammad's command and pelted to death with stones for sexual immorality - yet the prophet of Islam actually encouraged his own men to rape women captured in battle (Abu Dawood 2150, Muslim 3433) and did not punish them for killing non-Muslim women (as Khalid ibn Walid did on several occasions - see Ibn Ishaq 838 and 856).

In summary, according to the Qur'an, Hadith and Islamic law, a woman may indeed have physical harm done to her if the circumstances warrant, with one such allowance being in the case of disobedience. This certainly does not mean that all Muslim men beat their wives, only that Islam permits them to do so.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/wife-beating.aspx

 

[Zen]

I suggest Zen might be much happier as a Muslim, maybe even a cleric, in this godless and evil religion!

May God bless you

 

[Tabitha4thelord]

Zen old Zen You opened a bucket of worms when you opened your mouth...Why don't you simply apologize and learn from it? Learn to think before you flap your gums

Hahaha, I love It!
your a doll Denadii!
your a proper gentleman!

 

[shrume]

In fact, he is inciting men to hate women. He is inciting men to beat women..

No I'm not. I'm sorry that your reading comprehension is not on the same level as your spiritual development.

Exactly how hard do you think it is to comprehend these words of yours?

Modern women are horrible. I find it staggering that men don't beat sense in to women any more.

 

[Angela53510]

No I'm not. I'm sorry that your reading comprehension is not on the same level as your spiritual development.

Actually, my reading comprehension is FAR above yours, which is why you do not even have a clue what you have written.

"Women are horrible. Men should beat them."

Wow! That took a Ph.D to understand! I think you are thinking about what you were thinking in your head. But what you wrote, is that because ALL women (which is what is implied when you do not specify or define with a definite article , and you use the indefinite plural "women" - you get ALL women) need to be beaten.

"And what a shame the practice of wife beating has fallen into disrepute, it was so effective. And women are children, unable to think for themselves (hence the reference to beating children from Prov.) and unintelligent, uneducated, and needed to be trained by a man, somewhat like a dog or circus animal. Except even animals should not be beaten!" (My words!)

Of course, the last paragraph is all connotations. (I hope you will look up that word, before you accuse me of putting words in your mouth.) When you come into a forum, where there are women who have been brutally beaten, had to escape for their lives, and you start posting like this, you are threatening and triggering these women.

In fact, I cannot understand why the mods have not banned you for such a sweeping and flagrant statement about the need to bring back wife beating. Those poor women, most tried hard to please their mentally ill husbands, and the loved them, cooked and cleaned and even did perverse things to keep them happy (thinking back to the wife abuse group I attended!) But it was never good enough. And too many people don't realize how much this goes on behind closed doors, under the guise of women "submitting" to men. Except for submission is voluntary. It is done with a heart of love, not fear of being beaten or killed.

Zen, I have nothing but distain for you and your implications, and then your denials. You are a disturbed person, and you have hurt women on this thread. I will stand against you, and report you until you cease or are gone.

It is time for the Christian church to take a stand against this egregious misogny, and cease to give people like Zen a platform for him to spew this anti-God garbage! And that means CC mods need to take action, and stop worrying about the feelings of an angry and disgusting person, and start worrying about all the women who might be reading this thread.

I am sorry Enow that this thread got abducted by this disturbed person. But stop defending him, or you are just as bad. There are many threads in this forum about women as pastors, in ministry, etc, etc. We have discussed the Scriptures up and down, backwards and forwards. But this is the only one I have seen in which one person took over by demanding women be beaten, stoned, etc, etc, as he has done in this thread. You need to close this thread, so we can discuss the issue you raised in the OP in another, clean thread.

This thread needs to be pulled completely, so no woman needs to read about men who want to beat them, because they are horrible. What a disgusting and vile thing to say! What a shame that a disturbed man has been able to spew this unchristian garbage, and nothing is done about it! SAD!

 

[Zen]

Exactly how hard do you think it is to comprehend these words of yours?

Well honestly since even people have agreed with me in this thread, not too hard. But the people who are mad are mostly women, and they've done everything from slander to bear false witness. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they've contacted the UK embassy to have me imprisoned for hate crimes. Oh, I almost forgot, they accused me of not being a Christian and tried to get me to convert to Islam. None of these people are open to learning. They've got their ears plugged and are screaming like children in pre-school. They've twisted my words and misrepresented my opinions.

Chasten =/= hate.
Chasten =/= abuse.

These people are actually teaching me, but not in their intended way. They are demonstrating that I was right, many modern women are horrible and are in much need of lessons in respect and humility and that no matter how old a Christian is, they can still talk and behave like teenagers.

You can play all the little games you like saying "But scripture doesn't exist to say you should discipline women" yet they know I'm right, biblical men wouldn't tolerate uppity women. I bet even Solomon reached the limit of his patience, and he had like 700 wives.

Godly women would not be in need of such correction anyway.

 

[Zen]

Actually, my reading comprehension is FAR above yours, which is why you do not even have a clue what you have written.

"Women are horrible. Men should beat them."

No, I was right, you are failing at reading comprehension. Here's the actual quote:

"Modern women are horrible. I find it staggering that men don't beat sense in to women any more."

 

[shrume]

Well honestly since even people have agreed with me in this thread, not too hard. But the people who are mad are mostly women, and they've done everything from slander to bear false witness. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they've contacted the UK embassy to have me imprisoned for hate crimes. Oh, I almost forgot, they accused me of not being a Christian and tried to get me to convert to Islam. None of these people are open to learning. They've got their ears plugged and are screaming like children in pre-school. They've twisted my words and misrepresented my opinions.

Chasten =/= hate.
Chasten =/= abuse.

These people are actually teaching me, but not in their intended way. They are demonstrating that I was right, many modern women are horrible and are in much need of lessons in respect and humility and that no matter how old a Christian is, they can still talk and behave like teenagers.

You can play all the little games you like saying "But scripture doesn't exist to say you should discipline women" yet they know I'm right, biblical men wouldn't tolerate uppity women. I bet even Solomon reached the limit of his patience, and he had like 700 wives.

Godly women would not be in need of such correction anyway.

I pity your family, if you have one. And if you don't, may you remain single forever. Or until you grow up.

And FWIW, I'm a male.

 

[Zen]

I pity your family, if you have one. And if you don't, may you remain single forever. Or until you grow up.

And FWIW, I'm a male.

May God bless you

 

[shrume]

May God bless you

Same to you. And may you come to a knowledge of the truth.

 

[Angela53510]

So, here is something I wrote about 1 Tim. 2:12, just to have it on this thread. The more I study Greek the more I conclude that this passage needs to be read in context of Ephesus and the situation there, and that authentein, a hapax legomena infinitive is translated wrong! I just read Bill Mounce's 40 pages in his Word Commentary on the Pastorals and in the end, he agrees with me that the word "authentein" is the key verb. He is a complimetarian, who chooses to translated it as "exercise authority." But he leaves room that in fact, it could well be a different word. Because it is not found elsewhere, and it would be necessary to find contemporaneous sources, and somehow figure out why Paul did not use exousia, his usual word for authority, and instead used an alternate word. My contention is that if he had wanted men to "have authority" he would have used exousia, plain and simple. The fact that he found an alternate word, and only used it once, speaks volumes for a different word being a better translation, especially one that is true to the verb form, which is an infinitive. Authority is a noun!

Anyway, I have loads to copy and paste, for those that have not read it before! But, I'll start with this!



"Regarding "authority" and various other selected verses, which people have chosen to post in this thread. These are the things God revealed to me in Seminary. I was reading the verse below, 1 Tim. 2:12, in my daily Bible reading, and I felt hurt and overwhelmed. Why would God call me to Seminary, and then not use me? It made no sense. I cried out to God, and the next day, I stopped in at a used bookstore, and God led me to 3 books on women in ministry.

Since then, I have accumulated many more books and scholarly articles. Those first three books explained the Greek, which I did not yet read, although my Greek studies have confirmed the truth of the way we are to read these disputed verses. Quite simply, there was an agenda when the KJV and many modern verses were translated. And that means some twisting in the translation process to make it say what God never meant it to say.


"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet." 1 Tim. 2:12

The word AUTHORITY here is a hapax legomena in Greek. That means it appears only ONCE in the whole Bible. It is not the usual word in the New Testament for authority, which is exousia ἐξουσία. (The word used in Matt 28:18)

"And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." Matt. 28:18

Notice, Jesus says the authority has been given to him, not men or women, or pastors, or priests. Jesus is the one we have to obey. It is better to obey God than man!

Instead, we have a word which cannot be translated in terms of the way it is in other Bible verses, but translators have to turn to other contemporaneous sources to find out what the word means.

The word is authentein, (αύθεμτείν) in Greek. According to every scholarly source I have read, authentein means anything from "to act on one's own authority, to exercise authority, to murder, to domineer, to be an autocrat." So ALL of these terms suggest that a woman is not to be without God's anointing, nor dominate or be an autocrat over a man.

The best translation, which takes into account the infinitive status of authentein "to domineer' as opposed to turning into a noun, and having to add an extraneous verb like "exercise," for the verse to make sense. Authentein is not a substantive, and there is no justification for adding a verb that is not even in the verse.

"I do not allow a woman to teach, or to domineer over a man, rather, she is to remain silent." 1 Tim. 2:12 (my translation!)

Further, the word "silent" or ἡσυχίᾳ in this verse, is the same word the rabbis used when teaching their students. The men students were not allowed to teach, and were to remain silent. In other words, Paul is following the rabbinic tradition, and saying the women are not ready to teach, and they need to stop domineering men. (Please remember, once these rabbinical students had studied and learned, they were free to teach! In fact, to become the next generation of teachers!)

Contextually, this is very important, because Timothy was the pastor in Ephesus, which was the home of the goddess Artemis or Diana. The temple of Artemis was one of the seven wonders of the ancient world, and Paul had already had run-ins with their silversmiths, who resented that Paul was pulling people away from worship of Artemis and not needing their idols. (See Acts 19)

Now the big thing about these worshipers of Artemis, was that the temple was run by wild priestesses. They wore their hair long and unruly and they did some nasty things to men in the name of their idol.

So imagine if some of them get saved, or pretend to be saved, and came into a church, and start domineering and doing all kinds of cultic things. Well, I agree these women should not be in control. They should not be exercising authority over anyone. They need to unlearn a LOT of things!

So Paul was right to tell Timothy in a private letter, to kindly keep these women under control in Ephesus. Does this one verse apply to ALL women for ALL time? Well, I think it is best that neither men nor women dominate. So in that sense, it is universal.

But because Paul picked this word - the ONLY time he used it in all his letters, he was not talking about any kind of authority given by God. That would be exousia ἐξουσία. Instead, he was giving instructions for Timothy to take these new women converts in hand, and get them to listen and learn. Maybe later, some of them could be preachers and evangelists. Prisca was certainly a teacher of the word. Why would Paul commend her, if he wanted her to be permanently silent? It makes absolutely no sense!

"Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus." Romans 16:3

Note that Prisca or Priscilla is listed first, and in 6 other passages. (Acts 18:18, 19, 26, Romans 16:3, and 1 Tim. 4:19) Aquila is only listed first once in 1 Cor. 16:19. The person that was mentioned first, in Roman and Greek tradition, is the stronger partner or the one in charge. Prisca must have been a very knowledge woman concerning the Word of God, including the New Testament and spreading the gospel.

 

[Tabitha4thelord]

I pity your family, if you have one. And if you don't, may you remain single forever. Or until you grow up.

And FWIW, I'm a male.

Oh yeah!
another wonderful Man In Da house!!!

 

[Zen]

Same to you. And may you come to a knowledge of the truth.

I have the knowledge of truth. That's why I'm blessing those who slander, hate and persecute me.

May God bless you x2, and all the uppity women in here.

 

[shrume]

I have the knowledge of truth.

Not concerning women. That is painfully obvious from your posts.

 

[1ofthem]

Well honestly since even people have agreed with me in this thread, not too hard. But the people who are mad are mostly women, and they've done everything from slander to bear false witness. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they've contacted the UK embassy to have me imprisoned for hate crimes. Oh, I almost forgot, they accused me of not being a Christian and tried to get me to convert to Islam. None of these people are open to learning. They've got their ears plugged and are screaming like children in pre-school. They've twisted my words and misrepresented my opinions.

Chasten =/= hate.
Chasten =/= abuse.

These people are actually teaching me, but not in their intended way. They are demonstrating that I was right, many modern women are horrible and are in much need of lessons in respect and humility and that no matter how old a Christian is, they can still talk and behave like teenagers.

You can play all the little games you like saying "But scripture doesn't exist to say you should discipline women" yet they know I'm right, biblical men wouldn't tolerate uppity women. I bet even Solomon reached the limit of his patience, and he had like 700 wives.

Godly women would not be in need of such correction anyway.

It really saddens me that you feel this way about women. I'm not sure what type of experiences that you have had in life, but you seem to have a really bleak outlook. However, there is no excuse or justification for physical violence. I am praying that the Lord will reveal this to you in some way that you may be able to see this clearly.

Like I said in a previous post, domestic violence is a real problem. Maybe if you research it and see some of the things that women have suffered and some of the reason that they were abused you might be able to understand how saying that it is Biblical sound to hit women is so alarming for most of us.

I have known women who have gotten beaten for praying too long and not getting supper on the table quick enough and for even staying at church for too long...Yeah, they had a curfew, had to be home by 9 even if church lasted longer.

Do you really want to set men in a position to judge someone and then physically punish that person if they don't do everything exactly when and how they are told to do it?

 

[Zen]

Not concerning women. That is painfully obvious from your posts.

I genuinely think that if one of the apostles were here right now, he'd get told to shut up and get reported too.

You even have a woman in here translating the scripture to suit her own world view. Maybe if she stands on her head and looks at the word through a mirror "authority over women" might say "Feminism is great, women are just as strong as men".

 

[Zen]

It really saddens me that you feel this way about women. I'm not sure what type of experiences that you have had in life, but you seem to have a really bleak outlook. However, there is no excuse or justification for physical violence. I am praying that the Lord will reveal this to you in some way that you may be able to see this clearly.

Like I said in a previous post, domestic violence is a real problem. Maybe if you research it and see some of the things that women have suffered and some of the reason that they were abused you might be able to understand how saying that it is Biblical sound to hit women is so alarming for most of us.

I have known women who have gotten beaten for praying too long and not getting supper on the table quick enough and for even staying at church for too long...Yeah, they had a curfew, had to be home by 9 even if church lasted longer.

Do you really want to set men in a position to judge someone and then physically punish that person if they don't do everything exactly when and how they are told to do it?

Women's suffrage has caused more problems than you would admit to.

All you have to do to pervert the interpretation of God's Word is to claim that chastening someone is abusing them.

Suddenly, women being chastened is "innocent women being abused by monstrous husbands". You'd gladly welcome living in Babylon because it's comforting and easy.

"Arrest my husband, he raised his voice at me and said I should be taking care of the children"
"Are you Christian?"
"Yes I'm Christian, and I feel bad for my husband but please arrest him I'm being abused"