Only 144,000 Virgen Men Redeemed From the Earth at The Pre Trib Rapture??!!!

[Enow]

I know there will be other believers abiding in Him that will be raptured, but this goes to signs of the time when only a 144,000 christian men that are virgins that will be redeemed from the living on the earth at the time of the rapture that will serve as His personal choir that follows Jesus around wherever He goes in Heaven and when He returns to earth.

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:[SUP] 3 [/SUP]And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Are christian parents telling their children not to have sex before marriage in these latter days or what? Apparently not.

Galatians 5:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,[SUP] 20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,[SUP] 21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

FYI the word "uncleanness" is just another word for masturbation as believers need to repent of that too with His help as well as from porn which is idolatry, worshiping the creature more than the Creator which generates uncleanness, & lasciviousness which is sexual excessiveness.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Trust Jesus Christ as yoru Good Shepherd to let you know when you are sowing to the flesh by being aware when your body is being turned on so you can stop, depart from what you are doing or thinking.

Here's hoping God is pricking the hearts of a lot of believers right now to repent from fornication and ask Jesus for help not to do it again and set their minds ad their hearts on the things above and on other things that are not in darkness.

Colossians 3:1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 3When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. 4Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: [SUP]6 [/SUP]For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:


1 John 3:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Philippians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;[SUP]10 [/SUP]That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

James 1:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

1 Corinthians 10:[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.[SUP]13 [/SUP]There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Jude 1:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,[SUP]25 [/SUP]To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[tanakh]

I know there will be other believers abiding in Him that will be raptured, but this goes to signs of the time when only a 144,000 christian men that are virgins that will be redeemed from the living on the earth at the time of the rapture that will serve as His personal choir that follows Jesus around wherever He goes in Heaven and when He returns to earth.

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:[SUP] 3 [/SUP]And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Are christian parents telling their children not to have sex before marriage in these latter days or what? Apparently not.

Galatians 5:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,[SUP] 20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,[SUP] 21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

FYI the word "uncleanness" is just another word for masturbation as believers need to repent of that too with His help as well as from porn which is idolatry, worshiping the creature more than the Creator which generates uncleanness, & lasciviousness which is sexual excessiveness.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Trust Jesus Christ as yoru Good Shepherd to let you know when you are sowing to the flesh by being aware when your body is being turned on so you can stop, depart from what you are doing or thinking.

Here's hoping God is pricking the hearts of a lot of believers right now to repent from fornication and ask Jesus for help not to do it again and set their minds ad their hearts on the things above and on other things that are not in darkness.

Colossians 3:1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 3When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. 4Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: [SUP]6 [/SUP]For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:


1 John 3:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Philippians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;[SUP]10 [/SUP]That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

James 1:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

1 Corinthians 10:[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.[SUP]13 [/SUP]There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Jude 1:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,[SUP]25 [/SUP]To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Your thread is a prime example of what happens when we use literalsm in the wrong place when reading Scripture. In Revelation we are all clothed in white which is a symbol of Spiritual purity. The 144000 are described as virgins which is another symbol of purity.Of course there is immorality at this time as in other times but within marriage intercourse is isn't immoral. God said be fruitful and multiply. Try obeying that command while still keeping your virginity.

There is another aspect to this as well. The 144000 number is 12 multiplied by 12 which is a number of completeness.
Also the names of the tribes differ from those in other places where they are mentioned. There was no tribe of Joseph.instead his Sons Ephraim and Manasseh formed one tribe to replace him. In Revelation Ephraim is not included nor Dan. The reason could be that the ten tribes that rebelled were represented by Ephraim and Dan was prophesied as being a serpent in the way and a viper by the path that bites the horses heels and the rider falls backwards. Not a very good CV for a heavenly choir position.

 

[Enow]

Your thread is a prime example of what happens when we use literalsm in the wrong place when reading Scripture. In Revelation we are all clothed in white which is a symbol of Spiritual purity. The 144000 are described as virgins which is another symbol of purity.Of course there is immorality at this time as in other times but within marriage intercourse is isn't immoral. God said be fruitful and multiply. Try obeying that command while still keeping your virginity.

This was only attesting to who makes up that personal choir that follows Jesus around wherever He goes. This is not attributing to the only ones that will be raptured. It is virgin men who speak no guile that makes up that choir.

There is another aspect to this as well. The 144000 number is 12 multiplied by 12 which is a number of completeness.
Also the names of the tribes differ from those in other places where they are mentioned. There was no tribe of Joseph.
instead his Sons Ephraim and Manasseh formed one tribe to replace him. In Revelation Ephraim is not included nor Dan.
The reason could be that the ten tribes that rebelled were represented by Ephraim and Dan was prophesied as being a serpent
in the way and a viper by the path that bites the horses heels and the rider falls backwards. Not very good heavenly choir CV

Thanks for sharing, but I disagree with your application of scripture.

 

[Locutus]

They were already redeemed in the 1st century AD - firstfruits:

Rev 14:4 KJV These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

James 1:1 KJV James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

James 1:18 KJV Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.


There's yer "144K" of the 12 tribes to which James is writing - firstfruits - people 1900 years later would be "last"er fruits.

But don't let facts get in the way of your "theology"...

 

[Enow]

They were already redeemed in the 1st century AD - firstfruits:

Rev 14:4 KJV These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

James 1:1 KJV James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

James 1:18 KJV Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.


There's yer "144K" of the 12 tribes to which James is writing - firstfruits - people 1900 years later would be "last"er fruits.

But don't let facts get in the way of your "theology"...

Thanks for sharing, but James reference to firstfruits is not the same as the firstfruits "redeemed" from the earth when it is in reference to the rapture.. taking the living from the earth.

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:[SUP] 3 [/SUP]And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

If you read on.. this is what follows after the pre trib rapture.. setting the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth.

Revelation 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,[SUP] 7 [/SUP]Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,[SUP] 10 [/SUP]The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:[SUP] 11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.[SUP]13 [/SUP]And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

So everybody will know the gospel and the consequence for taking the mark of the beast which is the lake of fire. That is the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth.

This will happen after the pre trib rapture... when God will judge His House first, excommunicating those saved but found in iniquity and thus not abiding in Him to be received as vessels unto honor to the Marriage Supper. See what excommunication is supposed to do symbolically below from the church.

1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,[SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

So imagine the real thing when it comes to being received for the Marriage Supper.

1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:[SUP] 10 [/SUP]Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.[SUP]12 [/SUP]For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?[SUP]13 [/SUP]But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

So will God excommunicate for the real thing of anyone found in iniquity to be cast into the bed of the great tribulation unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh ( physical death ) so the spirit may be saved in the day of Christ.

So the call to depart from iniquity by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin is given out now before the Bridegroom comes.

As it is, the event heralded by the second angel is given in details in Revelation 18th chapter of the fall of Babylon on how the saints left behind.. even religious ones in works that deny Him, will be made to rest from their labors as their works will follow them into the dust.

But it does go to show... only 144,000 christian men are virgins and speaking no guile will be taken from among the living in the earth when the pre trib rapture comes?

Parents better get on the ball here about not having sex before marriage to their children and if too late, they better exhort the young adults to go to Jesus for forgiveness and help not to do that again because unrepentant saved believers in fornication will be left behind.... count on it.

 

[resurrection33]

I believe that all people who repent of their sin will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Enow]

I believe that all people who repent of their sin will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Rapture wise.. yes. But apparently at the time of the pre rapture event, only a 144,00 virgin christian men that speak no guile are taken from the earth to be His personal choir. Revelation 14:1-5 is not saying those are the only ones raptured, but that they are the ones that make up His personal choir in Heaven that follows Him around wherever He goes.

 

[Rachmiel]

Well I resolve I am not going to get bogged down
In the tiresome list of Rapture and Tribulation heresies
But I just wanted to be saying
That passage from Revelation is one I really treasure
It's one of those chapters that just keeps me going
It shows how the Lord really is supremely just
For those like me, it is our promise
It says for the patient and true singles that there is indeed a reward in God for us
Praise Lord Jesus

 

[breno785au]

Are christian parents telling their children not to have sex before marriage in these latter days or what? Apparently not.

I know I will be when the time comes when my kids grow up.. Where are you getting this statement from?

 

[resurrection33]

Rapture wise.. yes. But apparently at the time of the pre rapture event, only a 144,00 virgin christian men that speak no guile are taken from the earth to be His personal choir. Revelation 14:1-5 is not saying those are the only ones raptured, but that they are the ones that make up His personal choir in Heaven that follows Him around wherever He goes.

I think you will find some symbolism in the Bible.

 

[garee]

My two cents...As new creatures given a new spirit that could never die but will be resurrected into a incorruptible body on the last day God makes no difference between male and female Jew nor Gentile knowing what we will be is not that in which we are.. As a whole accordinging the faith principle (2Co 4:18) needed to have the spiritual understanding in those parables we are all considered the bride or wife of Christ as lively stones that make up the spiritual house of God, not seen called the church.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

This is another reason the Amil position.... no literal thousand years is used in those parables. The unknown number 144,000 represents the whole body of Christ Old testament saints as well as new. God does not give exact numbers in that way. Natural man is quick to try and fill them. Numbering the saints is forbidden … a great multitude, which no man could number. Not because it would not be possible to number but again God forbids counting. In that sense where fools rush in wise men do not tread

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

All nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues applies to all who have the born again of the Spirit of Christ

The 144,000 represents the chaste virgin bride the church. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation of men but a new creation of people who have not fornicated with other gods the strange woman the reason he calls us His chaste virgin bride.

The word thousand is used as a metephor in that way throughout the scriptures in many parables to represent an unknown as to what ever is in view whether it is time sensitive or not.

 

[breno785au]

So married men like myself would be excluded?

Some people need to stop trying to reach.

 

[blitzen66]

Are christian parents telling their children not to have sex before marriage in these latter days or what? Apparently not.

I know I will be when the time comes when my kids grow up.. Where are you getting this statement from?

Bros...my new belief is full preterist view. Jesus did indeed come back in his generation in the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70AD ....it makes perfect sense. There is a lot of brainwashing to overcome with the dispensational view that we all have been spoon fed for years. i believe the 144000 is symbolic for the jews who are saved ....but no worries....This has already happened....The tribulation? Over. His return ..Done. This is definitely good news too. The time of Jacobs trouble makes sense to fit into events of Roman Jewish War 66-70 AD roughly. If Revelation 17 is read we can see how the Pharisees fit into the description of those who persecuted the saints. It looks obvious to me at that point. So much for debating pre, mid post trib rapture...We have met Jesus in the air and he came back to live with us in the new temple ,,,,our bodies....beautiful stuff i think

 

[tourist]

I guess that counts me out.

 

[sevenseas]

Bros...my new belief is full preterist view. Jesus did indeed come back in his generation in the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70AD ....it makes perfect sense. There is a lot of brainwashing to overcome with the dispensational view that we all have been spoon fed for years. i believe the 144000 is symbolic for the jews who are saved ....but no worries....This has already happened....The tribulation? Over. His return ..Done. This is definitely good news too. The time of Jacobs trouble makes sense to fit into events of Roman Jewish War 66-70 AD roughly. If Revelation 17 is read we can see how the Pharisees fit into the description of those who persecuted the saints. It looks obvious to me at that point. So much for debating pre, mid post trib rapture...We have met Jesus in the air and he came back to live with us in the new temple ,,,,our bodies....beautiful stuff i think

not sure if you are joking or what

your new belief? flavor of the month?`

 

[S-word]

The 144,000 are chosen from 12 of the thirteen tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each of the chosen 12 tribes. So why do you think that none were chosen from the tribe of Dan? Revelation 7: 5 to 8.

 

[S-word]

The 144,000 are chosen from 12 of the thirteen tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each of the chosen 12 tribes. So why do you think that none were chosen from the tribe of Dan? Revelation 7: 5 to 8.

Does no one here understand why Jacob adopted the two sons of Joseph and divided Joseph into the two tribes: tribe one, being of the first born, Ephraim, which is called the tribe of Joseph and tribe two, Manasseh the younger?

 

[S-word]

Does no one here understand why Jacob adopted the two sons of Joseph and divided Joseph into the two tribes: tribe one, being of the first born, Ephraim, which is called the tribe of Joseph and tribe two, Manasseh the younger?

Did Dan, whose descendants are not named among the 144,000 in Rev 7: 5-8, have any children of his own?

 

[S-word]

Did Dan, whose descendants are not named among the 144,000 in Rev 7: 5-8, have any children of his own?

From the Last Testament of Reuben to his children, we read that while camped on the way to Eprath, while Jacob was away visiting his father Isaac, and after he had seen Bilhah bathing in a covered place, Reuben lusted after her, then one night after a festival, Bilhah, [the mother of Dan] who had become drunk, lay uncovered in an intoxicated sleep in her tent. Having therefore gone in and beheld her nakedness, Reuben wrought the great impiety without Bilhah perceiving it, and leaving her still asleep, Reuben departed.

Bilhah did not know that she had been raped and Reuben, riddled with guilt, did not tell anyone of his dark deed and yet Jacob found out. How? ---

From his deathbed, Benjamin, who was born on the way to Ephrath, said to all of his descendants who were gathered around their dying Patriarch, “As Isaac was born to Abraham in his old age, so also was I to Jacob. And since Rachel, who had remained barren for twelve years after she had borne Joseph, died in giving me birth, I had no milk; therefore I was suckled by Bilhah her handmaid.”

Do you not find it amazing that Bilhah whose last son ‘Naphtali’ was born before Gad and Asher some 14 years earlier, still had breast milk and was able to suckle the baby Benjamin?

Bilhah, the mother of the sterile giant, Dan, died shortly after Rachel. If there was a child born from Bilhah, by the rape of Reuben the first born son of Israel, where would we find that child.

 

[jb]

...at The Pre Trib Rapture??!!!

Absolutely NO such thing as a pre-tribulation rapture!

2Thess 2v1-3 states:

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."

Paul states that the 2nd Coming of the Lord Jesus and our gathering together onto Him occurs on the SAME day, and that day is AFTER Antichrist is revealed and sits in The Temple in Jerusalem claiming that he is God. The Lord Jesus states the same truth in Matt 24v15-21,29-31!

Bit of a warning to you (and those who teach a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture), the Lord Jesus states that you will be amongst the false prophets of the last days for He strongly teaches against such, declaring that He comes in great power and glory so that every eye will see Him immediately after the days of the Great tribulation. Matt 24v23-27,29-31, Rev 1v7