The TRUE grace of God isn't what most people think!

[QuickenedByHim]

To show someone mercy is to be gracious toward them.
If someone is unforgiving and holds a grudge even though we sincerely apologized they are being neither gracious nor merciful toward us. They are wanting us to pay a little before they forgive us.

But when we ourselves need forgiveness for speaking harshly to them or doing something mean to them, we are quick to see their lack of mercy or grace. We see their fault but not our own. We tip the scales in our favor. God hates unequal weights.

When you forgive someone its because you are merciful to them. If you withhold forgiveness from someone, its because you are unmerciful. The grace of God that brings salvation to men is NOT the same thing as mercy. The grace of God is the alive and active power of the Spirit that quickens our mortal bodies that causes the true followers of the Lord Jesus to mortify the evil deeds of the body and live godly in this present world.

"But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you." Romans 8:11

"And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgements, and do them." -Ezekiel 36:27

 

[followjesus]

When you forgive someone its because you are merciful to them. If you withhold forgiveness from someone, its because you are unmerciful. The grace of God that brings salvation to men is NOT the same thing as mercy. The grace of God is the alive and active power of the Spirit that quickens our mortal bodies that causes the true followers of the Lord Jesus to mortify the evil deeds of the body and live godly in this present world.

"But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you." Romans 8:11

"And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgements, and do them." -Ezekiel 36:27

amen the true Grace of God, is Holy God, causing His Holy spirit to Live in Lowly men and women who have spent thier life in rebellion by thier Nature. its ultimately the fulfilling of all God said begorehand He would do such as you have quoted here and the many other things Like it " I will give you a heart of flesh" I will circumcise your Hearts and give you a clean and pure spirit" I will give you my judgements of Light and truth" I have yet to give you a new Heart and spirit...but i will through the messiah to come..... its really mostly what the Old testament prophets wrote of.

Grace changes condemned sinners who are out of place trying to do right, into saints who are only Living who they are when they walk upright before God , all because of the Grace of God to send His spirit to give Life to the dead, Hope to the Lost and light in the Darkness.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

When you forgive someone its because you are merciful to them. If you withhold forgiveness from someone, its because you are unmerciful. The grace of God that brings salvation to men is NOT the same thing as mercy. The grace of God is the alive and active power of the Spirit that quickens our mortal bodies that causes the true followers of the Lord Jesus to mortify the evil deeds of the body and live godly in this present world.

"But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you." Romans 8:11

"And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgements, and do them." -Ezekiel 36:27

We aren't going to connect with each other in understanding I don't think. If someone is being merciful, they ARE showing me kindness. Grace is kindness.

Maybe the problem is that I don't know you yet and so I don't know WHY it is so important to you that the two be separated. In my experience, when someone I am talking to doesn't agree with a relatively simple point or definition, it's because they are defending something I don't know about and they feel that to agree with the plain point or definition would threaten what they are defending (but are not bringing into the conversation).

It's also my further experience that if I determine what belief, understanding or doctrine they feel is being threatened, I can almost always show them how to agree with the plain point in fact does NOT make what they have constructed fall down as they thought it would.

 

[Grandpa]

When you forgive someone its because you are merciful to them. If you withhold forgiveness from someone, its because you are unmerciful. The grace of God that brings salvation to men is NOT the same thing as mercy. The grace of God is the alive and active power of the Spirit that quickens our mortal bodies that causes the true followers of the Lord Jesus to mortify the evil deeds of the body and live godly in this present world.

"But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you." Romans 8:11

"And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgements, and do them." -Ezekiel 36:27

Ezekiel 36:27 is describing unmerited favor. You were once under the curse. Then God caused you to no longer be under the curse by His unmerited, you did nothing - can do nothing to earn it, favor.

You were not punished as you should have been because of His Mercy.

You were blessed because of His unmerited favor. His Grace. But it was also merciful of Him to bless you without you earning it, imo. Because the consequences of not being blessed by God is punishment.

 

[sevenseas]

I understand that many Christians define Grace as unmerited favor. But many Christians are wrong!

1. grace charis
   1. that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
2. good will, loving-kindness, favour
   1. of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues
3. what is due to grace
   1. the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace
   2. the token or proof of grace, benefit
      1. a gift of grace
      2. benefit, bounty
4. thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward

Mercy...eleeō

1. to have mercy on
2. to help one afflicted or seeking aid
3. to help the afflicted, to bring help to the wretched
4. to experience mercy

Two different words 'Charis' and 'Eleeo' meaning two different things.


The bible talks of Grace and it talks of Mercy as two different things...Grace is the Empowering PRESENCE of God in your life that enables you to do that which He gives you to do.

It was His empowering PRESENCE in you that saved you from sin because of His Mercy. unmerited favor on you. Unmerited favor does not save you or He would have said you were saved by mercy. He said you were saved by his empowering PRESENCE on you because of His mercy.


Why do Christians keep defining God by worldly sources anyway?

what's the matter with you?

it's not that Christians define a word a way. Christians are not in control of the dictionaries.

you and some others have a major problem accepting facts and choose to make up your own and then create nonsensical arguments and unbiblical concepts and try to preach and teach at others who do not accept the nonsense

do you even begin to realize from the farthest recesses of your mind, that you are completely and utterly wrong and yet continue to insist that you are right?

you cannot do what you and some others here are doing. you cannot take a word that has an accepted meaning and then change it to suit YOUR ideas, thoughts and or persuasions

when people are unteachable they remain in ignorance. I have posted the definitions of both grace and mercy, from a dictionary and you still insist that is not the definition.

this is sad and indicates you will not be learning anything you do not agree with, which means, your mind is made up, set like cement, and nothing else is getting in

I would not care if someone is that needlessly stubborn, but you and others get on here and try to teach, mind you it is supposed to be a discussion forum, but you use it to teach because no actual authentic body of believers would ever allow you to teach because the truth is not in you

you can't even accept that you are wrong when a blind person could see that you are. you choke on the truth. you just cannot let it in, so stay in darkness.

just a simple word you say? no...just an indication of how bad things are with some people here

ps. I truly doubt you understand the original languages or that you do not translate word for word or that the same word can be used without meaning quite the same thing

better cut eye holes for the bag over your head

 

[sevenseas]

what utter nonsense

honestly, I can hardly conceive of the complete arrogance that insists it is right because it has decided that it cannot be wrong

even that does not make sense

 

[Denadii]

what's the matter with you?

it's not that Christians define a word a way. Christians are not in control of the dictionaries.

you and some others have a major problem accepting facts and choose to make up your own and then create nonsensical arguments and unbiblical concepts and try to preach and teach at others who do not accept the nonsense

do you even begin to realize from the farthest recesses of your mind, that you are completely and utterly wrong and yet continue to insist that you are right?

you cannot do what you and some others here are doing. you cannot take a word that has an accepted meaning and then change it to suit YOUR ideas, thoughts and or persuasions

when people are unteachable they remain in ignorance. I have posted the definitions of both grace and mercy, from a dictionary and you still insist that is not the definition.

this is sad and indicates you will not be learning anything you do not agree with, which means, your mind is made up, set like cement, and nothing else is getting in

I would not care if someone is that needlessly stubborn, but you and others get on here and try to teach, mind you it is supposed to be a discussion forum, but you use it to teach because no actual authentic body of believers would ever allow you to teach because the truth is not in you

you can't even accept that you are wrong when a blind person could see that you are. you choke on the truth. you just cannot let it in, so stay in darkness.

just a simple word you say? no...just an indication of how bad things are with some people here

ps. I truly doubt you understand the original languages or that you do not translate word for word or that the same word can be used without meaning quite the same thing

better cut eye holes for the bag over your head

So you look at what people want the word to mean today, and you look into a dictionary. And you say I'm being nonsensical. Its the height of stupidity to take a word that God spoke two thousand years ago and change it for your convenience today. You would rather trust what Mr. Webster said than what God said. Now that makes sense. Right? That's a brainless way to think.
The entire question is WHAT DOES GOD SAY? Not what does Mr Webster say? Or even what to you say? Its not about your convenience. Its ALL about God. So Look at the word God used. Mr Webster could take a real lesson there. Except he chose to learn in a church that spouted their word instead of Gods Word...Kind of like what you are doing.

God used the word eleeō He used the Word charis Now you go by Gods word and be damned to Mr Websters definition and the popular modern definition.

 

[Denadii]

what utter nonsense

honestly, I can hardly conceive of the complete arrogance that insists it is right because it has decided that it cannot be wrong

even that does not make sense

Its amazing how you people who have never thought for themselves, beyond what you want for brekky or what pretty dress you want to wear today, can come up with a stupid conclusion like that. You preach at me what the word means and you go by the popular vote....Thats stupid. My dog can come up with better thoughts than that. Better conclusions. Better attitudes.

And as for me being arrogant? Well my dear. That's called projection...Don't put your crap on me. I do not accept it.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hi All, just a few thoughts....

Firstly let me clarify something. Do I believe I am saved by my works? Absolutely not! Salvation only come to us as we have complete faith and dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it will do. It is completely a gift from God by faith in His Word. Salvation is by faith in Christ alone because there is nothing that we can do as sinners in our own strength to save ourselves it is completely a gift from God. (Matt 9:13; Isa 64:6).

So what is the counterfeit Gospel?

It is a message that tries to separate Gods forever Law (the 10 commandments Ex 20:1-18) from faith in Christ for salvation.

Why is God's Law important to helping someone to have faith in Christ alone?

Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (1John 3:4; Rom 3:20; 24). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Rom 2:12).

God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Rom 3:19). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words so that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) (Matt 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.

The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Savior and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of Gods Word. (2Pet 1:4) It is here as we believe God, that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he first loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15).

People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfillment of His new Covenant promise (Heb 8:10-12)...... Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1John 3:4) whosoever is living in sin has neither seen him nor known him (1John 3:6)

God bless you all.

 

[Grace777x70]

Just what are the commandments of God in the New Covenant? The Old Covenant is a goner along with the 10 commandments. It is obsolete. Hebrews 8:13

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Notice how the "law-keepers" pervert the gospel of the grace of God in Christ by saying we are to keep the 10 commandments and yet John says the complete opposite and he tells us exactly what the New Covenant commandments are and they have nothing to do with the 10 commandments.

Law-keepers are constantly exchange Christ Himself for the law.

We live now by the law of love, the law of faith ( the law is NOT of faith and the just shall live by faith ), the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus - the law of Christ Himself.

 

[graceNpeace]

Hi All, just a few thoughts....

Firstly let me clarify something. Do I believe I am saved by my works? Absolutely not! .....

I specifically asked you a question a while back about what happens to Christians who do not observe the Sabbath.
Your answer was unequivocal - they go to hell for not observing the law of God!

You are a hypocrite and a deceiver...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Just what are the commandments of God in the New Covenant? The Old Covenant is a goner along with the 10 commandments. It is obsolete. Hebrews 8:13

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Notice how the "law-keepers" pervert the gospel of the grace of God in Christ by saying we are to keep the 10 commandments and yet John says the complete opposite and he tells us exactly what the New Covenant commandments are and they have nothing to do with the 10 commandments.

Law-keepers are constantly exchange Christ Himself for the law.

We live now by the law of love, the law of faith ( the law is NOT of faith and the just shall live by faith ), the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus - the law of Christ Himself.

This is always one exact point that I disagree with you on. But I disagree in a roundabout way.
He didn't come to do away with the law - He came to fulfill it in each of us.
Through faith, He makes me to actually keep the law in spirit, in my heart, where it matters, (and where the problem originates).
He cleans up my heart so I don't murder. Murder has always been a breaking of Gods' law and murder is still now a breaking of the law of the Spirit in us. If I don't murder in my heart, I won't murder outwardly and literally. Because if the inside is clean, the outside just will be as well.

But we know the reverse is not necessarily true because the outside can be shiny and whitewashed by all human appearances, while inside is rot and filth.
He cleans the inside of my cup and then the outside is just clean as well.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

If we are to walk by the Spirit, it would behoove us to ask Him to show us the spirit of the words rather than the letter.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is always one exact point that I disagree with you on. But I disagree in a roundabout way.
He didn't come to do away with the law - He came to fulfill it in each of us.
Through faith, He makes me to actually keep the law in spirit, in my heart, where it matters, (and where the problem originates).
He cleans up my heart so I don't murder. Murder has always been a breaking of Gods' law and murder is still now a breaking of the law of the Spirit in us. If I don't murder in my heart, I won't murder outwardly and literally. Because if the inside is clean, the outside just will be as well.

But we know the reverse is not necessarily true because the outside can be shiny and whitewashed by all human appearances, while inside is rot and filth.
He cleans the inside of my cup and then the outside is just clean as well.

Amen...He has fulfilled the law. This is a vast difference from us "doing the 10 commandments". If we could just do the 10 commandments - we would have no need to Jesus to come.

The Christian has died to the law, been released form the law and is NOT under the law. It can't get any plainer than that.

The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will not lead us to kill people or steal from them. So, we don't live by the 10 commandments - we live by the life of Christ in us.

 

[Grace777x70]

The 10 commandments were called the ministry of condemnation and of death by Paul. We can trust the life of Christ in us to live godly in this world.

The grace of God "teaches" now in the New Covenant how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly, righteous and godly in this present age - NOT the law of Moses. Titus 2:11-12

The 10 commandments are called the "letter that kills" and the "ministry of death" - The New Covenant is called the "ministry of the Spirit" that brings Life.

The 10 commandments were called "the ministry of condemnation" - the New Covenant is called "the ministry of righteousness." This is Christ's righteousness given to us that believe.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

[SUP]9 [/SUP] For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

The law of Moses including the 10 commandments are like an x-ray machine - they show up things that are wrong but the x-ray machine has no power to "fix it".

It just reveals what is wrong. It's the same here for Christ Himself and His life in our new hearts is the only thing that can "fix us" with a transformed live.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The 10 commandments were called the ministry of condemnation and of death by Paul. We can trust the life of Christ in us to live godly in this world.

The grace of God "teaches" now in the New Covenant how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly, righteous and godly in this present age - NOT the law of Moses. Titus 2:11-12

The 10 commandments are called the "letter that kills" and the "ministry of death" - The New Covenant is called the "ministry of the Spirit" that brings Life.

The 10 commandments were called "the ministry of condemnation" - the New Covenant is called "the ministry of righteousness." This is Christ's righteousness given to us that believe.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

[SUP]9 [/SUP] For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

The law of Moses including the 10 commandments are like an x-ray machine - they show up things that are wrong but the x-ray machine has no power to "fix it".

It just reveals what is wrong. It's the same here for Christ Himself and His life in our new hearts is the only thing that can "fix us" with a transformed live.

Well said Grace777! If we are attempting to keep the works of law (10 commandments included) as necessary to obtain salvation, then we are not trusting in Christ who already fulfilled the righteous requirements of the Law, but are attempting to take credit by our own efforts.

 

[Ahwatukee]

He didn't come to do away with the law - He came to fulfill it in each of us

Actually, it means exactly what scripture states. Jesus, being in the flesh, kept the law perfectly meeting all of its requirements and thereby satisfying God's requirement of the fulfillment of the Law. Now by trusting in Christ, the fulfillment of the law has been satisfied for every believer. In the same manner, the wrath that believers deserve as a result of our sins, was satisfied because Christ experience God's wrath on behalf of every believer. Therefore, we are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath. Again in the same manner, unless there is a shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins. Jesus satisfied the requirement of righteous blood needed for our atonement, something that we could not do, because of our sinful nature. The righteous for the unrighteous.

 

[Grace777x70]

God didn't send Jesus so that He could put the 10 commandments in us. He came to give us Jesus Himself so only He has fulfilled the intent of the law - including the 10 commandments.

If Paul is telling us the truth when he says the Christian is not under the Law but under grace now, has died to the Law, is released from the Law.

( Which I do believe Paul is telling us the truth ). - Then how is our relationship to be to the law in regards to the "good" that is in the ten commandments from the Old Covenant?

Live "from" the 10 promises instead of "by" the 10 commandments because we are now in Christ in the New Covenant.

It's in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and the grace of God which manifests His life in and through us that we live by now.

1) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will have no need for other gods because you have a loving Father who loves you deeply and unconditionally.

2) When you know Me ( Jesus ) ,and I live in you the idols in life will fade like mist in the sun.

3) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will never stop speaking My name to establish freedom - My name is Jesus.

4) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will cease from your own works and rely totally on what I have already done for you and find true Sabbath rest in Me.

5) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will be honored as fathers and mothers to nations.

6) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will restore life.

7) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will experience deep authentic relationships which you will treasure.

8) When you know Me ( Jesus ) ,and I live in you, you will be established in abundance and generosity.

9) When you know Me ( Jesus ) ,and I live in you, you will be My witness.

10) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, your love which is My love flowing in and through you for your neighbor will bring restoration to this world.

The 10 commandments are now 10 promises fulfilled in us through relationship with our loving Father because we are in Christ and the fruit of His life being manifested in and through us.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Amen...He has fulfilled the law. This is a vast difference from us "doing the 10 commandments". If we could just do the 10 commandments - we would have no need to Jesus to come.

The Christian has died to the law, been released form the law and is NOT under the law. It can't get any plainer than that.

The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will not lead us to kill people or steal from them. So, we don't live by the 10 commandments - we live by the life of Christ in us.

I agree he is no longer under the letter of the law. But he is not freed from the law of the Spirit in him. And that law is more demanding. Which is easier - to never shoot someone or to never have anger in your heart at someone? One is doable. The other is impossible for men. (Impossible for men - NOT impossible for God, because with God, all things are possible.)

 

[LoveGodForever]

Just what are the commandments of God in the New Covenant? The Old Covenant is a goner along with the 10 commandments. It is obsolete. Hebrews 8:13

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Notice how the "law-keepers" pervert the gospel of the grace of God in Christ by saying we are to keep the 10 commandments and yet John says the complete opposite and he tells us exactly what the New Covenant commandments are and they have nothing to do with the 10 commandments.

Law-keepers are constantly exchange Christ Himself for the law.

We live now by the law of love, the law of faith ( the law is NOT of faith and the just shall live by faith ), the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus - the law of Christ Himself.

Grace777, I am worried about you my friend. You clearly do not know the Word of God and close your eyes to it when it comes to you because it is not in harmony with what you choose to believe. It seems by all the things you say, that it is OK for me to steal your car, murder your wife, or take the Lords name in vain? If I obey these commandments am I forgetting that Jesus has given me salvation by faith? If I try to keep God's 10 commandments as God commanded to be righteous before God it is useless because all my righteousness is as filthy rags, but according to some here even if I obey Gods Law because I love God I am condemned as being under the works of the Law and a Judiazer and a Law keeper. All I am doing is the same as those that choose not to murder or steal because I believe God's Word and I love God. Do you know about the New Covenant? Jesus says “If you love me keep my commandments.” (John 14:15). It’s always been about Jesus with me my friend because I love him. What about you?