Why does keeping seventh-day Sabbath = Salvation by works?

[chips1024]

Christians are free from laws, but there is only one reason why.

Its because we abide in Christ. We are the Workmanship of God now.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

The Lord Jesus gives us rest from our work at the law in order to be righteous before God.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

After we have received this Rest from Christ we continue to abide in Him for all of our Provision and blessing.

This is the much fruit;

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Notice especially the first fruit of the Spirit listed...

Romans 13:9-10

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


The fruit of the Spirit is a gift from God. It is a part of Salvation, a part of abiding in Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 10:3-4

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Thanks for your input Grandpa...

Just some points to also consider...
You quote Matthew 11:28 where Jesus promises rest, but if you read further you find that Jesus also has a yoke and tells us that we need to learn from him... so there is something we need to do besides just 'rest' and there is instruction that we need to learn and follow as well as a burden to carry (though it is light)...
Matthew 11:28-30
28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

John 15:5 quoted speaks about being connected to the vine... following on that chapter we find Jesus telling us that we need to also have the words He has spoken live within us...
John 15:7
7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you...
I believe the Psalmist suggests that when the words are hidden in our heart, we will not sin against God (Psalm 119:11). Jesus also speaks of the parable of the houses built on the rock and the shore in Matthew 7, where Jesus clearly says that he who does will be called wise... so again, seems like we need to follow through with action some where
Matthew 7:24
24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

I like the fruit part and can see that connection, yet I do have some thoughts on the Romans 13 passage you gave... First time really reading them in context, but it would seem from the verses that the last commandments are connected to loving your neighbour... does that not then suggest that the beginning commandments are connected to how we would go about loving God? First time thinking about it this way after seeing these verses, so still gotta meditate on it more, but there does seem to be a clear connection between the commandments and love for God and man from these verses...

I like the end too... let us hold fast to the hope and faith we have in Christ and not subject ourselves to the bondage that sin presents... thanks for your thoughts and for making me think further...

 

[chips1024]

The commandment in the New Covenant ( the Old Covenant is a goner now ) is to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ."

From Him all things will be manifested as His life is bearing His fruit in and through us.

We don't live "by the keeping of" carnal commandments in the New Covenant - we live by the law of the spirit of life in Christ now. The law of love, the law of liberty, the law of faith ( the Law is not of faith ) - the law of Christ Himself.

We love because He has first loved us. It's descriptive of His life being in us - not in the following of a carnal commandment to obey.

John 15:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

Jesus is not commanding us to "manifest" love. The original commandment in John 15 is to "abide in Him".

Believing in what He has done and His love for us will release the love of God that is in us and that believing in Christ and "abiding/remaining/staying" in His love and grace towards us will cause love and His life to manifest in and through us.

Jesus' commandments are His enablements and are really descriptive of His life being manifested in us.

This right believing in Christ's love and work for us releases His life in us and fulfills all the intent of the Law which has the 10 commandments in it. We don't live by the 10 commandments in the New Covenant - we live by His life.

We can see Christ's life in the 10 commandments as He is the fulfillment and real substance of them as all scripture is profitable for us.

The 10 commandments in the Old Covenant which is now a goner ( for the Christian that is in Christ ) and obsolete because the true substance has come - Jesus Himself - as being all promises fulfilled in Christ and His life in us.

This is hugely different then following a carnal commandment as it is laid out in the Old Covenant.

Hmmm... seems to me like there is an interesting point in this post...
I am fully understanding that we are not to follow the laws in order to be saved, I get that and we cannot be saved by following the law - Bible is very clear on that. I get that you are saying that law keeping is NOT what we are supposed to do to be saved, just like Israel were NOT to keep the law in order to be saved...

If... just saying 'if'... Christ was the fulfillment and 'real substance' of the law... and Christ followed/kept all of the law... and we want to be or are supposed to be like Christ - because as you say, He is living His life in us - then does that not mean that if... again, just saying 'if'... Christ is living in us, then we will also keep/follow the law just as He did when He walked this earth?? Or has Christ changed the way he lives now? Was He our example to follow or not? If He was baptised, should I be baptised? If he never stole, should I also not steal? If he loved His neighbour according to the 10 commandments given in Romans 13:8-10, should I also love my neighbour in the same way?

You see, if the Christ living in us now, is different from the Christ living back then 2000 years ago, how will we know who is the real Christ? Did not Jesus say that many will come in my name to deceive us? Is this 'new' version of Christ a deception? Man... thanks so much for your thoughts!! They really have got me thinking... Thank you so much!!!

 

[chips1024]

Can you be saved without being justified?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

Exodus 24:8
And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.

God sprinkled the new covenant with the blood of Lord Jesus, it is an unbreakable oath which no one can ever remove.

John 1 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one

2 Corinthians 13:1
This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Salvation is from believing in Lord Jesus, nobody has to work for it.

Works prove faith and show obedience and get a person a reward in heaven, they are 2 different things.

I like the viewpoint Zen... 2 different things at play here...

I like your last line... Works prove faith and show obedience... fits in with what Jesus said about hearing the word and doing it will result in being on the rock and our house will not fall...
James 1:22 also says we need to be doers of the word and not only hearers...
Acts 5:32 also speaks about the Spirit being given to those who obey... so we need to follow something!!

Hmmm... I really like that line... will contemplate on it more... Thank you so much for your post!!

 

[chips1024]

If Paul is telling us the truth when he says the Christian is not under the Law but under grace now, has died to the Law, is released from the Law.

( Which I do believe Paul is telling us the truth ). - Then how is our relationship to be to the law of Moses in regards to the "good" that is in the ten commandments from the Old Covenant?

Live "from" the 10 promises instead of "by" the 10 commandments because we are now in Christ in the New Covenant. It's in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and the grace of God which manifests His life in and through us that we live by now.

1) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will have no need for other gods because you have a loving Father who loves you deeply and unconditionally.

2) When you know Me ( Jesus ) ,and I live in you the idols in life will fade like mist in the sun.

3) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will never stop speaking My name to establish freedom - My name is Jesus.

4) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will cease from your own works and rely totally on what I have already done for you and find true Sabbath rest in Me.

5) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will be honored as fathers and mothers to nations.

6) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you,you will restore life.

7) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will experience deep authentic relationships which you will treasure.

8) When you know Me ( Jesus ) ,and I live in you, you will be established in abundance and generosity.

9) When you know Me ( Jesus ) ,and I live in youyou will be My witness.

10) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, your love which is My love flowing in and through you for your neighbor will bring restoration to this world.

The 10 commandments are now 10 promises fulfilled in us through relationship with our loving Father because we are in Christ and the fruit of His life being manifested in and through us.

It seems as though you are saying quite clearly that those who have Jesus living in them will follow the 10 commandments... not through their own work or efforts and not in order to be saved, but rather because Christ is living in them... I think I may save these 10 points for later... thanks!!

 

[chips1024]

A different perspective

Because without parable the word of God spoke not, hiding the spiritual understanding from the lost we must look to the unseen (faith principle) or spiritual understanding I think the focus is more about eating and drinking(fasting) in a spiritual sense rather trying to make it fit a certain day of the week as a works rightousness .

Looking to the spiritual meaning of the parable found in John 6 ; unless a person eats the flesh and drinks the blood of Christ. Searching out the spiritual meaning of that parable can be helpful in coming to a proper conclusion …walking by faith (the unseen spiritual)

This would be in respect to the food Christ said the disciples knew not of. The food of doing the will of another .Free will to the believer. It can be called the meat of His word as Christ works in us to both will and perform His good pleasure. In that way we know we have been strengthened to do the will of another

The Sabbath a rest term which is not connected to any day, it is a day that God has set aside so that a person can go out with the gospel of salvation , the other days they were required to work to eat. People today are off work on different days of the week so that they can offer the true fast the kind that drives out the lying spirits as demons.

The true fast which Christ spoke of which did drive out the lying spirits as demons comes out be the gospel, the preaching of the cross. Lying spirits do not come out because some sit around a on a day when they can go out into the word holding out the gospel of peace .

Rather than focusing on a day, focusing on what that day that we can offers a fast, as an opportunity to serve the Lord would be the focus. Sabbath is not a time sensitive word it simply means "rest" with no other meaning attached to it.

What we are to rest from can give us a clue.

Interesting point, but the Sabbath is the name of a day... the seventh day... Exodus 16, pre-10 commandments from the mountain shows us this quite clearly... the name of the seventh day was called the Sabbath...
But I do appreciate the thoughts brought forth... rest from what...

 

[chips1024]

The religious mind is stuck on the flesh, its stuck on performing and doing and worrying.
That is why the self-appointed fruit inspectors stress themselves and the people around them into misery. I feel bad for them I really do, it is just sad when people get stuck in that. I do not know how to help those people all I can do is pray that God releases their mind from bondage, which is what I do with some of the people I know.

If any SDA is reading this I want you to genuinely think, is choosing to rest on the wrong day really the Mark of the beast, something that spells game over for you once it becomes mandatory? Think.

Just discovering some more information on the SDA in your post here... you say that something may become mandatory?? I think that anything that becomes mandatory is part of the mark of the beast... if anyone forces you to keep any day, go to church at a certain place, read only certain things, or take away your freedom of choice in any way, that for me is the mark of the beast... in whatever form it comes... God values freedom of choice and the freedom to choose is given to all by the Creator... the devil wants to take that away, and so act as God on earth... so for me, any mandatory action is from the devil... especially is it involves religion...

I'm not 100% sure what exactly you are talking about, but that mandatory part just kind of got to me...

 

[Grace777x70]

It seems as though you are saying quite clearly that those who have Jesus living in them will follow the 10 commandments... not through their own work or efforts and not in order to be saved, but rather because Christ is living in them... I think I may save these 10 points for later... thanks!!

I am saying that the life of Christ Himself in us - which is pure love will manifest all the whole intent of the 10 commandments. It is not us "keeping a commandment" as under the law of Moses.

Jesus was born under the law "so that" He could redeem them that were under the law.

Galatians 4:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Jesus elevated the 10 commandments when He said "You have heard it said - do not commit adultery - but "I say" to you - if you lust in your heart - you have committed adultery".

Just because someone "keeps the adultery" command physically - it doesn't meant that it is really being fulfilled because they can still lust and be actually guilty of breaking that commandment.

We live by the law ( principle ) of the spirit of life in Christ, the law of faith ( the law is NOT of faith ), the law of liberty in Christ, the law of love - the law of Christ Himself in us now because we are joined as one spirit with Him forever.

We need to have our minds renewed to the realities that are real for us because Christ is in us now.

We are new creations - which have been created in righteousness and holiness.

 

[chips1024]

I am saying that the life of Christ Himself in us - which is pure love will manifest all the whole intent of the 10 commandments. It is not us "keeping a commandment" as under the law of Moses.

Jesus was born under the law "so that" He could redeem them that were under the law.

Galatians 4:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Jesus elevated the 10 commandments when He said "You have heard it said - do not commit adultery - but "I say" to you - if you lust in your heart - you have committed adultery".

Just because someone "keeps the adultery" command physically - it doesn't meant that it is really being fulfilled because they can still lust and be actually guilty of breaking that commandment.

We live by the law ( principle ) of the spirit of life in Christ, the law of faith ( the law is NOT of faith ), the law of liberty in Christ, the law of love - the law of Christ Himself in us now because we are joined as one spirit with Him forever.

We need to have our minds renewed to the realities that are real for us because Christ is in us now.

We are new creations - which have been created in righteousness and holiness.

Wow wow wow... this a pretty powerful post with some good points!! I am grateful for this Grace... I really am...

When Christ lives in us, it will manifest the whole intent of the 10 commandments - which is actually Love... Seems like the 10 commandments are a reflection of God, for God is Love!! Wonderful point!! I am literally smiling right now!! So Amazing!! Thank you so much again for this post!!

I also just love how you show that "Jesus elevated the 10 commandments"... He didn't destroy or nullify, instead, He 'raised the bar' so to speak... man... this post is really good... and just like we could never keep the 10 commandments of old, we also will never be able to keep the elevated commandments without faith in Christ!!

Christ in us, the hope of Glory!! Go God!!

 

[Grace777x70]

Wow wow wow... this a pretty powerful post with some good points!! I am grateful for this Grace... I really am...

When Christ lives in us, it will manifest the whole intent of the 10 commandments - which is actually Love... Seems like the 10 commandments are a reflection of God, for God is Love!! Wonderful point!! I am literally smiling right now!! So Amazing!! Thank you so much again for this post!!

I also just love how you show that "Jesus elevated the 10 commandments"... He didn't destroy or nullify, instead, He 'raised the bar' so to speak... man... this post is really good... and just like we could never keep the 10 commandments of old, we also will never be able to keep the elevated commandments without faith in Christ!!

Christ in us, the hope of Glory!! Go God!!

Amen...our Lord will be caught in the act of being Himself to us....

We are all learning to rest in the righteousness of Another - in Jesus our Lord who is in us as one spirit in union with us.

This resting in His righteousness releases His life and grace to flow in and through our lives to live godly lives that reflect our loving Father's and Lord's true nature to others to see and in this our Lord is glorified.

Grace reigns in righteousness. We have a great and complete salvation in Him and it is in Him alone! He is our life.

Romans 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.