IS SMOKING A SIN WORTHY OF DISFELLOWSHIPMENT?

[OldSoldier]

Smoking is one of the worst things you can do to many different organs of the human body. Your body is a temple of Christ and is to be treated as such. We belong to God and we're here to do His will in our lives so He can be glorified. We're not doing that if we think we can do what we like with our bodies, minds and life. The idea of being a Christian is to give all that free will to Christ and to hear His instruction for our every step.

It's nothing short of betrayal for us to identify ourselves as Christians and, knowingly, go and do damage to our bodies that God armed us with. The temple He has for us is to use effectively and to show others His works and ways, it is not something to be defiled from such a destructive habit.

We all fall short, however I'd venture to claim that there's no one who doesn't know the inherent dangers of smoking, that there is nothing healthy in the practice at all. Instead of dealing with one's issues in a productive manner they chose smoking as a release, regardless of the consequences, and inherently show no respect for and cause illness to the temple of Christ.

If you're a Christian and have a basic knowledge of God's word on these matters, that's more than sufficient to know how you must intervene.

Like I said, you are not going to Hell if you smoke, but you may get to heaven before the rest of us. Your reply is in my opinion the thing that gives we Christians the appearance of hypocrites. Are you perfect in every way? You do nothing that would make a non-believer stumble? You are without sin? Are you overwieght? That temple was not designed to carry around an extra 50 lbs you know. Come on, lighten up and be real. People need to hear the good word, not how sinful they are. They can figure that out soon enough after they are convicted by the Holy Spirit. Your heart is obviously for God, but you appear to be stuck in a legalistic rut that was created long after our Lord and has become ingrained in so called Christian teaching. What is a sin foe you may not be for another. Paul mentioned that, remember?

 

[laura_charlotte]

Your reply is in my opinion the thing that gives we Christians the appearance of hypocrites. Are you perfect in every way? You do nothing that would make a non-believer stumble? You are without sin? Are you overwieght? That temple was not designed to carry around an extra 50 lbs you know.

There's nothing hypocritical about firstly acknowledging that we all fall short as was plainly stated at the outset of my post.

Come on, lighten up and be real. People need to hear the good word, not how sinful they are. They can figure that out soon enough after they are convicted by the Holy Spirit. Your heart is obviously for God, but you appear to be stuck in a legalistic rut that was created long after our Lord and has become ingrained in so called Christian teaching. What is a sin foe you may not be for another. Paul mentioned that, remember?

Going by your prior posts in this thread, you have experience in this habit and it's not clear where you've put it behind you on. It's understandable why you'd be on the defence. However your own issues don't detract that there's a substantive amount of 'word' in what I posted, if you want learn and be honest with yourself and chose to take something away from it. Exploring the heart of the problem and where it's led people too has got nothing to do with being legalistic at all. It encourages people to learn about the dangers of the practice from a physical and spiritual perspective and guides them down the right path where there's hope.

Most people are not interested in getting the facts about an issue, especially when doing so leaves them with a clear choice between right and wrong. As Proverbs 14:12 says “There is a way which seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” God created the heavens, the earth and the human body, it's up to us to take heed in our fleshly practices.

 

[Stephen63]

"You're making christians that smoke look bad"

"You're legalistic"

"You're a hypocrite"

"Get on those 'other' sins instead of mine"

"I'm not going to hell for that"

"I can't help it, it's a disease"


Excuses. Deflection. Passing the buck. Blaming the exposers. ALL of these show the refusing of responsibility and guilt.

It's a shame, really, especially since the the more they try to cover it up, the more it's exposed. Their own witness psychologically shows irresponsibility.

The more one fights against it, the more guilty one looks.

 

[OldSoldier]

Thank you for not answering the questions.

 

[plainguy]

There's nothing hypocritical about firstly acknowledging that we all fall short as was plainly stated at the outset of my post.


Going by your prior posts in this thread, you have experience in this habit and it's not clear where you've put it behind you on. It's understandable why you'd be on the defence.

This. These are the kind of statements Laura that exude judgement on another. It's not ours to do this. We don't know what another has had to struggle with in this life. We know today that many things that humans ingest are not good for our bodies. Hydrogenated oils, processed foods, many fruits and berries that have been treated with chemicals whose health benefits are outweighed by their toxins, fried foods, hormone filled dairy products etc. etc. Is it a sin to partake of them now that we know the truth ? Food is a necessity, true enough. But abstaining from things unhealthy is not an impossible proposition. Where does the judging another end ? Is the occasional glass of wine a sin ? Or a beer after mowing your lawn in the heat ?

 

[plainguy]

"You're making christians that smoke look bad"

"You're legalistic"

"You're a hypocrite"

"Get on those 'other' sins instead of mine"

"I'm not going to hell for that"

"I can't help it, it's a disease"


Excuses. Deflection. Passing the buck. Blaming the exposers. ALL of these show the refusing of responsibility and guilt.

It's a shame, really, especially since the the more they try to cover it up, the more it's exposed. Their own witness psychologically shows irresponsibility.

The more one fights against it, the more guilty one looks.

Why should he be concerned "how guilty he looks" in your eyes ? I'm quite serious.

 

[Denadii]

When I became a Christian at age 22, I was a smoker. I smoked about 2.5 packs of cigarettes a day.

My mother was an Armstrongite (Worldwide Church of God), so I had exposure to the group. They were cultic, but I didn't understand core Christianity back then. So, I counseled with the pastor to attend services (WCG didn't allow strangers off the street to attend their services, probably so they wouldn't get rebuked for their heresies).

Anyways, I was told by the pastor that I needed to quit smoking in order to attend services. At that time, I was desperate for a relationship with God so I quit smoking cold turkey. It worked out well for me, so I thank God that I was delivered from the habit. However, I don't think that's the right approach to dealing with someone who is struggling with an issue, let alone a seeker who hasn't even initiated a relationship with God yet. It's like telling someone they need to clean their life up BEFORE they can come to God.

Well, Armstrongites were a bunch of kooks so I don't expect anything but kooky behavior from them.

However, I have learned that other groups also deal very strictly with tobacco use, including the Seventh Day Adventists. For instance, one fellow I know was placed in an inferior status due to his smoking habit (I can't remember the specifics but he was allowed to attend but was restricted). A SDA pastor told me that he delivers ultimatums to smokers and if they don't quit, they are disfellowshipped.

So, my question is this...1. Do you think smoking is a sin, and if so, on what grounds? 2. If it is a sin, how should it be dealt with? Should disfellowshipment be used as a punishment? 3. If so, do you think disfellowshipment should also be applied to obese individuals who are engaged in eating too much? 4. What about sins of the heart, like pride, envy, lust, etcetera? Should we disfellowship people over sins of the heart? And, if so, how many people would be in church?

Please note that I'm not revealing my position on whether smoking is a sin. I just want to watch the conversation.

It is not what a man puts into his mouth that defiles him, but what comes out of his mouth.

 

[laura_charlotte]

This. These are the kind of statements Laura that exude judgement on another.

As was reiterated earlier, it's got nothing to do with sitting in judgement and everything to with exercising compassion and understanding about where someone else comes from and why they're responding the way they do. It explores the merit in my original post and their subsequent reaction to it with an effort to examine their position and experience on the matter from their prior posts. They've been open about their struggle in this thread and with the OP's questions, members are free to respond accordingly.

 

[notmyown]

it's also quite possible for believers to make the body an idol.

smoking is gross. before they quit, i asked my parents not to smoke in our house.
i didn't tell them i'd have nothing to do with them till they quit, though.

 

[OldSoldier]

There's nothing hypocritical about firstly acknowledging that we all fall short as was plainly stated at the outset of my post.


Going by your prior posts in this thread, you have experience in this habit and it's not clear where you've put it behind you on. It's understandable why you'd be on the defence. However your own issues don't detract that there's a substantive amount of 'word' in what I posted, if you want learn and be honest with yourself and chose to take something away from it. Exploring the heart of the problem and where it's led people too has got nothing to do with being legalistic at all. It encourages people to learn about the dangers of the practice from a physical and spiritual perspective and guides them down the right path where there's hope.

Most people are not interested in getting the facts about an issue, especially when doing so leaves them with a clear choice between right and wrong. As Proverbs 14:12 says “There is a way which seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” God created the heavens, the earth and the human body, it's up to us to take heed in our fleshly practices.

Yup, throat cancer made me stop after 44 years of smoking. But I am not defensive at all about that, however I will defend others that you condem for it. Casting stones is not becomming of you sister.

 

[Stephen63]

Why should he be concerned "how guilty he looks" in your eyes ? I'm quite serious.

First, I said "they", not pointing to any particular person, because this is not about pointing people out.

Secondly, "they" ought to be concerned about this hurting "their" witness & reputation among the brethren & with sinners.

 

[laura_charlotte]

Yup, throat cancer made me stop after 44 years of smoking. But I am not defensive at all about that, however I will defend others that you condem for it. Casting stones is not becomming of you sister.

I'm glad to hear that you got through it and you're here with us all today. It's your choice if you want to read posts that explore the damaging consequences of the practice of smoking as 'condemning' and 'casting stone's' when that's not at all the basis from which it was explored. I go back to my earlier point, when you've got personal experience and your own unresolved issues on this matter or the church itself, it can cause you to see things not as clearly as you might've through God's eyes. We're all on our own journey and I'm glad you're still here to take the walk with Jesus. God bless.

 

[Stephen63]

Yup, throat cancer made me stop after 44 years of smoking. But I am not defensive at all about that, however I will defend others that you condem for it. Casting stones is not becomming of you sister.

I didn't see that.

It would be wiser to let it die, than trying to keep this particular debate alive.

 

[dcontroversal]

Thank you for not answering the questions.

Tragically funny.....you can read thru this thread and pick out the believers and the religionists with ease.........the religionists point and say thank God I am not like that low life scum bag sinner......and the believer simply looks at himself and under his breath with eyes down says Lord be merciful unto me a sinner............

 

[dcontroversal]

Why should he be concerned "how guilty he looks" in your eyes ? I'm quite serious.

Excellent point.........

 

[plainguy]

Tragically funny.....you can read thru this thread and pick out the believers and the religionists with ease.........the religionists point and say thank God I am not like that low life scum bag sinner......and the believer simply looks at himself and under his breath with eyes down says Lord be merciful unto me a sinner............

My thoughts exactly. I was reminded of the pharisees during the time of Christ.

 

[Meggido]

The church is to minister to the "sick", like Jesus did. The gospel can heal most "sicknesses".

That being said, minister healing to them, & don't give them a lighter or an ashtray. Give them what they need, not what they want.

It actually works in reverse for us Stephen....

We see them quit because we have the ashtrays. They quit when they enter into covenant with the Holy Spirit and he helps them quit...and when the Spirit of him raised that Jesus from the dead gives them the life to quit...they do it instantly and never need patches, gum, vaping or anything else....

Sometimes it takes 6 day, 6 weeks or 6 months....but those that have come, usually stop in about 6 months and we do not arm twist them once....Letting the Holy Spirit do things he is empowered to do is the best option...on this addiction. We find smoking is usually the last thing people get delivered from, after they have overcome drugs, alcohol and impurity/immorality.

Smoking was the last thing I overcame...I am working on coffee now

I would obviously not do this same thing with alcohol or porn or drug addictions......

 

[kaylagrl]

How else will they hear? By going to the highways and byways. You can't expect lost people to want to come to church to hear the good news.. We dont need to make our church services into worldly garbage just to attract the lost people, if they can come to a regular service its all good, my point was not to make the church into a circus like the charismatics have done to attract the lost people. We got everything from effeminate weirdos performing with their rock bands to bingo to art shows to plays on stage. We dont need that garbage. That was my point not that lost people aren't "allowed" in church, just that we shouldn't conform to the world to attract them.

No, I agree the lost for the most part isn't going to come knocking on the church door to come in. Yes,we need to go to the highways,problem is the church has an open air service in their parking lot and then say they went to the highways and byways.

I also agree we dont need to try and change the church to fit the world. But I may be more strict on that then most. Like the church I use to attend bought a big screen tv for Superbowl time to bring the men in to church. Or they decided to have coffee and doughnuts at the back of the church throughout the entire service. My favorite was them spending 10 grand on one of those fancy digital signs to put all those witty sayings up in lights. That was the end for us. The sign was later struck by lightening and a plain old wooden one stands in its place. Coincidence? Id say not. The signs with the pithy sayings are a particular pet peeve of mine. So Im thinking we pretty much agree.

 

[Meggido]

A couple of thoughts keep occurring to me as I read the comments here.

1) Of those 18 who voted "sin, unrepentant" how many are Grace Only, OSAS, or Calvinists? That would kinda change the vote would it not?

2) There are, at any given time, one or more threads here concerning Christians living a sin free life (or some such). Of those same 18, how many live a sin free life (for the sake of argument, smoking is a sin)? Is smoking a greater, more damning sin than those you commit daily?

As for me, I really don't care if someone smokes or not. I see it as being between them and God. Same with the consumption of alcohol. Now, at one time, I was as dead set against people who drink as some here are against those who smoke. However, realizing that I was not perfect, and had my own flaws, I had to set aside my dislikes and realize that chastising someone for drinking while I had my own flaws was pretty hypocritical of me. So now, I accept that we all have free will, and that is God given, and folks can screw up their lives however they want. It isn't my business to judge them. It is between them and God.

Yeah, second hand smoke is bad.....what about second hand alcohol? It's called drunk driving. How many folks are maimed and killed every day because of that? Where is the soap box thread concerning second hand alcohol?



anyway.......

Spot on 100% BAM/POW!


The self-righteous always get knocked off their high horses, when they are exposed to the world...

 

[Stephen63]

1Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. 2Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

If we don't do this, we are guilty also, especially of not loving our brother.