You only think you know the truth. Go back and read post #7388 on page 370 in the "Not By Works" thread again. -
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146296-not-works-370.html#post3091863
As I already explained in that post:
The word translated believe is from the greek word pisteuō which means "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to
entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ).
The word "believe" can describe mere mental assent belief, as in James 2:19, or also include "trust and reliance" in Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31. In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they
do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
Saving belief/faith is more than just an "intellectual acknowledgment" to the existence and historical facts about Christ.
Saving belief/faith is a complete trust in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
I also explained in that same post how I was
in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who claims that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by works, then afterwards, erroneously defined believe/faith to include works. In post #7396, you said that you agreed with the Roman Catholic, demonstrating that you don't know the truth.
I then explained it further to you in post #7412 that the Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you BELIEVE IN HIM (Christ) for salvation then you are trusting in HIM as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation. This belief results in actions appropriate to the belief (good works) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief.
Good Morning MMD
Here's what I'd love to understand, and then I'll answer the above...
I grew up Catholic. My two children attended Catholic schools from the 1st grade.
I became born again while in the CC. They weren't doing anything then, not even some catechism,
let alone bible study.
I was aware that something had happened to me when I met Jesus one day in my kitchen, over in Whitestone, NY.
A few years later, my younger Brother became born again in a Nazarene Church. I also started attending that Church.
I had THE SAME expereience YOU had. (none of us has the same experience, but you know what I mean).
Why do you suppose you have such dislike, if not hatred, for the CC ?
Why do you think I don't?
And if YOUR Church started getting persecuted --- which is what we're doing to the CC on these threads ---- wouldn't
it be nice if other Christians defended YOUR Church? Even if they didn't agree with your doctrine?
There's a tiny Church, in membership, a ways from me. They believe you could be saved AFTER DEATH. What should we do about them? This COULD be a salvation issue.
The CC presents NO salvation issues. I'd say they go over board, but if a Catholic is sincere and loves Jesus, what do you care if they go to confession and believe in purgatory and Honor the mother of Jesus? HOW would that get them lost??
Now, to answer your post...
I thank you for your effort in going back and looking for your answer.
Here's the problem, and I've said it before.
YOU STILL have NOT told me what BELIEVE means in the Greek.
The reason why you can't tell me what it means is because it goes against the grain of your belief system.
If you told me COMPLETELY what the explanation is, you'd have to ADMIT that WORKS ARE NECESSARY.
And you don't WANT to do that.
Simply said, since I've explained it many times and will not do it again now,
BELIEVE means to so trust the person that you FOLLOW THEM AND LEARN FROM THEM AND EMULATE OR IMITATE THAT PERSON.
How could anyone, such as yourself and some Others here, EVER give the above explanation, which is the correct one BTW, because it brings the word to its ultimate conclusion, if they cannot even ADMIT that WORKS ARE NECESSARY.
Works are necessary IF we want to say that we BELIEVE IN JESUS, because we have to IMITATE Him and this does not suit you.
So.... you never give a FULL MEANING to the word BELIEVE.
As to your friend. Your friend told you correctly that the CC does NOT teach salvation by works. Salvation is by grace through faith. You REALLY think Catholic theoloogians don't know this???????? HOW DUMB do you think they are, anyway?
Works DO COME IN.
Dontcha hate it?????
AFTER SALVATION.
But this is an old story which you don't accept.
Just because YOU and Others don't accept it, does NOT mean it's incorrect.
I keep telling you to tell me the diffeence between Justification and Sanctification but you muddle that too because the meaning of Sanctification does not suit you either.
Nothing with the word WORK in it suits you.
If you believe that works are a RESULT of salvation, fine. That's true.
But be Christian enough (in theology) to admit that YES, WORKS ARE NECESSARY.
If you're not willing to do that, it means you don't agree with it and that is incorrect theology ---- the study of God.
GOD DEMANDS OBEDIENCE.
Show me one verse that gives even a hint of God NOT demanding obedience.
